Running with Ethanol fuel

[Carl]

Just reading an article about the detriments of ethanol fuel with marine engines. Does anyone have any experience with this yet.



Ethanol fuel may leave boats dead in
the water

By J. STAAS HAUGHT Staff Writer, (609) 272-7253
(Published: May 2, 2006)

If rising gasoline prices aren't enough to keep areaboaters out of the
water this summer, the gas itself might do the trick.
Boat owners and marina operators say they're concerned that ethanol-blended fuel, now being sold at all filling stations across thestate, could damage their engines and fuel systems, putting them in dry dock for the season.
Bud Dickinson, of Mays Landing, is worried about damaginghis three boats.
Ethanol stirs up the junk in your tanks, and if it gets brought into the injectors, it's going to be a real problem,he said. Mostof the manuals tell you really to take a lot of precaution with ethanolso you don't ruin your engine.
That's because ethanol acts as a detergent, stirring up sediment left in the tanks. If filtering systems fail or get too clogged,the residue could find its way to the engine.
If your filter works, once that first tank is done, you'llprobably be OK, or you might have to change your filters severaltimes, but who wants to ruin a $14,000 engine to test that? Dickinson said
From May through October, all gas sold in New Jersey has to betreated with a pollution-reducing additive. Traditionally, thathas been MTBE, but recent studies raised concern about its effects ongroundwater, so the state ordered a switch to E10 gas, so-called because it is 10 percent ethanol.
Most drivers won't notice any difference running thecleaner-burning E10 in their cars or trucks, but boats are designeddifferently and the fuel can be a problem in marine applications. Most newer carengines were designed with E10 in mind, while most boat engines are older andwere designed to run on other fuels. Wawa posted notices on its fuel pumpslast weekend warning customers that some boats will need preventivemaintenance to run on E10.
David Brown, owner of Thompson Marine in Egg Harbor Township, said most boat owners are expecting problems
I don't think anybody really knows anything yet, andthat's kind of the issue. We're not sure what to expect. We had a problemlong ago, in the late 70s and early 80s when they tried ethanol before,with fuel lines and rubber hoses breaking down, so there' some concern wecould see the same thing this time, Brown said. There's also an issuewith the ethanol mixing with water and fouling up the engine.
Traditional gas, and even MTBE-treated fuel, doesn't mix with water, so any water in a boat's fuel tank can be pumped out beforeit creates a problem. Ethanol, however, is water-soluble, so it mixes with water and carries it into the engine.
With the old fuel, if you get some water in there, you can pump out from the bottom and still save the tank (of gas). But with ethanol, the boat just won't run and you waste a whole tank of gas,said JackMadore, owner of Graef Boat Yard in Somers Point
But, Graef said, ethanol poses another concern forboaters. The big issue for some of the high-end boats is theirtanks. Ethanol eats away at fiberglass tanks, he said.
That has Scott Raab really worried. I'm not going to put it in the water as much thisyear, Raab said of his 28-foot Bertram fishing boat. I don't know what kind of damage the ethanol fuel might do, so I don't want to risk it too much.
Seaworthy magazine cautioned boaters last fall that ethanol could break down the fiberglass, creating a black sludge that gums upvalves and intake manifolds, destroying the boat's motor.
That's not a cheap fix, Madore said. It involves cutting out the tank and replacing it with an aluminum one. It's a lot of money andseveral weeks without your boat.
Brian Lefebvre, an assistant professor of chemical engineering at Rowan University, said ethanol's chemical characteristics raiseanother concern for boaters.
Ethanol can actually suck the moisture out of the air, so if there's any leaks or pressure problems with the fuel lines, it's goingto mix water into the fuel, he said.
Older boats with worn seals and gaskets on fuel systems are at greatest risk, Brown said.
It's going to cost owners some money in maintenance and repair at first, I think, he said,adding that occassional boaters would probably suffer the most.
The guys with their boat in the back yard they take out every once in a while, as soon as they have a problem with it, they'reprobably not going to be able to afford to repair it. They might not even getit in the water, Brown said. I feel really sorry for theguy who has an outboard and doesn't have any filtering system at all. He's in for real trouble.

__________________________


I am especially concerned about the plastic tank statements - considering I just put one in.


Carl

[captbent]

???AS I SEE A LOT OF USE LOOKED AT THIS POST IT DONT LOOK GOOD FOR US DOES IT, LETS SEE WHAT HAPPENS AND POST EVERYTHING THAT GOES BAD

[labii]

Is this stuff being used all over the country or in just a few states ?

[macojoe]

Its going every where!!!!!!!!!!! >:(

[TheTinMan]

found this:

How does ethanol affect my fiberglass fuel tank?
Fiberglass tanks manufactured prior to 1991 may not be compatible with gasoline containing ethanol. It has been reported that, in the presence of ethanol, some resins may be drawn out of fiberglass and carried into the engine where severe damage could occur. If an older fiberglass tank is used, check with the manufacturer to determine if gasoline with ethanol can be safely used.


Great...My 1990 has a plastic or fiberglass tank? I contacted Wellcraft to see if I need to be concerned.

[TheTinMan]

Here's where I got that info...more good info on Ethanol:

http://reel-time.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49486

[macojoe]

There was a piece on Channel % the other night with a guy from the north shore, He has a 31 foot 70 something Bertrum, Nice Boat!!

Its going to cost him $10,000 to tear up the Teak Deck and replace the fiberglass tank, which is one thing he bought the boat for, knowing that he would never have to replace it!

[Blue_Runner]

They (big oil crooks) should be made to pay half!! >:(

[TheTinMan]

I emailed Wellcraft this morning and already got a response.

My email:

I have a 1990 V-20 center console with a 60 gallon gas tank. The tank
is plastic or fiberglass? I know that ethanol in fuel can be harmful
to tanks made prior to 1991. Do I need to be concerned about ethanol
(10%) fuel in my tank?

Wellcrafts reply:

The tank in your boat is either Aluminum or roto cast polyethylene.
Our fuel systems are compliant with the standard for alcohol content in
gasoline of 10% which is the maximum allowed.
A number of material changes have occurred in fuel lines and gaskets
so it is prudent that you watch for softening of fuel lines or leaks
for a while after beginning use of ethanol fuels. This is no different
that the routine precautions you should be taking to inspect your fuel
system now.
Robert

[bigshrimpin]

Tin - you've got a poly tank in your boat. You don't have to worry . . . Only a few highend boat manufacturers used fiberglass tanks (Like Cabo, Bertram, etc.) . . . I'm still suspicious . . . of these peoples claims.

Can someone explain how Alcohol breaks down fiberglass resin? What materials changed in 1991 that makes newer fiberglass tanks immune? I want a scientific explanation . . . and I can't find one anywhere . . . #!@#

I wonder if it's the wax additive in polyester resin.