This spells it out

CaptJ · #1 02-20-2013, 09:37 AM

I guess this pretty well says it all. We need a system that will allow outsiders to lawfully migrate to this country and a system that does not reward those that come here illegally.

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".
Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California ...or Texas ....or... Arizona ....or.

Joe Legal works in construction has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Ready? Now pay close attention....

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30%
away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.0 0 per year. Jose Illegal
pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per
month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics and emergency
hospitals at a cost of $0 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money to be eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00
per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps, WIC and welfare. Jose
Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631 .00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal Rent SubsidyJose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for car insurance.Some of that is uninsured
motorist insurance.
Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc..

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out
of the country every month..

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work to make ends meet.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same elementary school. Joe Legal pays
for his children's lunches,
while Jose Illegal's children get a free, government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have a
free after school ESL
program. Joe Legal's children go home to an empty house.

Now, when they reach college age, Joe Legal's kids may not get into a State School and may not
qualify for scholarships,
grants or other tuition help, even though Joe has been paying for State Schools through his
taxes, while Jose Illegal's kids
"go to the head of the class" because they are a minority.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and
Jose did not pay anything.

Do you get it, now?

lathehand · #2 02-20-2013, 09:51 AM

Can't be any clearer

Destroyer · #3 02-20-2013, 11:51 AM

I have a problem with posts like this, cause they do nothing but flame the fires of racism. And that's wrong. Period. So, although I know it won't be popular, lets be honest about the math. Right now it's a little "fuzzy".

For instance, although Jose gets food stamps and other government subsities, he does not get the entire months food "free". He still has to pay a certain amount of money for his food. A greatly reduced amount, to be sure, but still enough to be significant. The maximum amount of food stamps that can be received per month by a household of one person is $162, of two persons is $298, and of three persons is $426. Food stamps are not intended to pay for all of the food needed for a month. So if both Joe and Jose pay $500 a month for food, then Jose has to pay $74 per month out of his own pocket. $74 x 12 = $888 per year. So Jose now has $30,312.

Now on to the rent issue. If Jose pays the same $1200 per month for his rent as Joe does, but receives a $500 per month subsity from the government, that means his actual outlay of funds from his own pocket is $700 (700 + 500 = 1200) or $8400 per year. So his $30,312 now becomes $21,912. There are other examples, but you get my point.

See what I mean? The math is fuzzy and is written in such a way as to cause resentment towards a certain race of people. I have a problem with racism, of any kind, towards any people.

My point of all this is that although there are, most definetly, inequalities and unfair advantages that illegals can receive, they do not have the bed of roses that are being portrayed. One only has to look at the gettos they live in to see that they have just as hard or harder a life as legal citizens.

If you don't like something, do something about it. Elect officials that share your feelings, hold them accountable, and FIX the problems. But as long as we continue to turn a blind eye to it, it will continue to exist. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

spareparts · #4 02-20-2013, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destroyer

I have a problem with posts like this, cause they do nothing but flame the fires of racism. And that's wrong. Period. So, although I know it won't be popular, lets be honest about the math. Right now it's a little "fuzzy".

For instance, although Jose gets food stamps and other government subsities, he does not get the entire months food "free". He still has to pay a certain amount of money for his food. A greatly reduced amount, to be sure, but still enough to be significant. The maximum amount of food stamps that can be received per month by a household of one person is $162, of two persons is $298, and of three persons is $426. Food stamps are not intended to pay for all of the food needed for a month. So if both Joe and Jose pay $500 a month for food, then Jose has to pay $74 per month out of his own pocket. $74 x 12 = $888 per year. So Jose now has $30,312.

Now on to the rent issue. If Jose pays the same $1200 per month for his rent as Joe does, but receives a $500 per month subsity from the government, that means his actual outlay of funds from his own pocket is $700 (700 + 500 = 1200) or $8400 per year. So his $30,312 now becomes $21,912. There are other examples, but you get my point.

See what I mean? The math is fuzzy and is written in such a way as to cause resentment towards a certain race of people. I have a problem with racism, of any kind, towards any people.

My point of all this is that although there are, most definetly, inequalities and unfair advantages that illegals can receive, they do not have the bed of roses that are being portrayed. One only has to look at the gettos they live in to see that they have just as hard or harder a life as legal citizens.

If you don't like something, do something about it. Elect officials that share your feelings, hold them accountable, and FIX the problems. But as long as we continue to turn a blind eye to it, it will continue to exist. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

Well put. I do have issues with Illegal Immigration, mostly with our current Governments stance on it and using Immigration as a vote buyer. But it needs to be addressed as an immigration issue, not a racial issue.

Blue_Runner · #5 02-20-2013, 02:28 PM

I didn't really see it as racist but maybe I missed that part. Which part makes it racist? Using the name Jose? Fuzzy math, I agree but even if you take away the fuzzy part of the math Jose still has more money, so I don't see the fuzzy math part contributing to racism.

willy · #6 02-20-2013, 03:33 PM

Neither do I, and the name could have been Barack and Bill.

The math as usual is always suspect and even though it is not perfect it is correct in that a hard working guy named Bill is getting the royal shafting by Barack.

As are all the other Americans who are paying these bills.

And just another thought to Blue's point, if those illegals were voting Republican that wall would have been built two decades ago and mass round ups would have occurred.
That is because these Statists that are in the demo/socialist party could not care less about Jose or Joe. It is dependent voting blocks.
Period.

awthacker · #7 02-20-2013, 08:24 PM

Yeah... it's not racist, at all. I guess the use of Joe and Jose make it a little distasteful to some, and the math is fuzzy, but the point is well made. And it's true that people are the problem, not the laws. But it's posts like this and the ensuing discussions that amount to "doing something about it". Let's face it... there ain't no one out there up for election of any office that is worth a ****. Maybe through social media, one day there will be. I do think the public is tiring of business as usual on capital hill... then again, it's probably always been that way and nothing will probably ever change.

Kracker Jack · #8 02-20-2013, 10:22 PM

I sense sarcasism in the story which is the point but not racism. I could think of a few other words that could have been used to make it racist. This story reminds me of a piece of property that i hunted for about 16 years, I worked my @$$ off planting food plots and setting tree stands. I had alot of work involved on this property. I let a buddy of mine hunt there about 3 years ago and he killed a huge 8 pointer that I had been seeing for about 3 years prior. Moral of the story is im glad he got him a nice buck but i had alot of time and money vested in the property just for him to slip in there for 1 hunt and shoot a sweet deer. I was kinda aggrevated for a while over that one!! lol!!!

Destroyer · #9 02-20-2013, 10:26 PM

Ok.. As I said in my post, I knew it wouldn't be a popular stance, and that's ok, cause I'm a big boy and I can handle some controversy.

Rac·ism
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***601;m/ Show Spelled [rey-siz-uh

m] noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination. I.E. slavery

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

4. racial prejudice or discrimination.

Yes, it is a racist post.

Some of you hit the nail on the head with the name thing. (and it's the names that make it racist) I'll spell it out for you.

Joe is our normal American hero worker/father

Jose is our normal Spanish illegal worker/father.

From the post we now know that all American worker/fathers are good hard working people that take on a second job to make ends meet,

And we all know that Spanish worker/fathers are all illegals that sit on their asses during the weekend.

The post sublimally makes you resent people of the Spanish race. And that makes it racist.

Do I hate illegals being in my country and taking jobs from Americans?
Of course I do. You only have to look at any one of several hundred posts I've made to know my feelings on this issue, but I hate ALL illegals, not just the Spanish. Not just the Russians, Not just the French, not just the Canadians, not any one particular race. Just because there are more Spanish illegals does not mean that you single out that particular race. If you do that makes you a racist.

I work in the construction industry. I work alongside people of Spanish heritage every day. Not a one of them is illegal, some are 3rd and 4th generation Americans, they're all hard working, and I'll be damned if I'll allow anyone to paint them with the same broad brush of hate simply because their last name is Rodrigus or Ramirez or whatever.

So yes, the original post was racist, because it painted the entire Spanish race as being illegal bums. And that makes it wrong.

PS.. I'd be a lot more tolerant of this post if it was Joe1 and Joe2

Destroyer · #10 02-20-2013, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willy

Neither do I, and the name could have been Barack and Bill.

But it wasn't. It was Joe and Jose. Jose is exclusively a Spanish name and that made the post racist.

I don't disagree with you about your comments on voting blocks or anything else, just take out the racism and make it Joe1 and joe2 and you got my vote.