Fox News and politics

[scook]

Thanks for a direct response. I agree that there’s plenty on a personal level to not like about the man and I often found his self promotion tedious. He has a huge ego, which of course is necessary to take on that job, especially with a dishonest media, Clinton/democrat machine and traitorous, dishonest FBI and cooperating bureaucracy attacking him with blatant, despicable dishonesty from before he was even elected - I don’t think you would deny that.

Not being a politician, he didn’t do a great job hiding his ego. Consider the size of Obama’s ego to have the temerity to even run for the biggest executive job in the world with a resume that wouldn’t qualify him for managing a gas station or 711 store - zero executive experience of any kind that I know of. He was an experienced Chicago politician, which pretty much by definition means dishonest, but he presented a smooth veneer. He presided over the biggest worsening in race relations in my experience, which was perpetuated by flagrant lies in the media under Trump.

I can understand how you would have taken a severe dislike to the man, but I think the opinions you have formed are extreme and inaccurate.

You have been adjusting your comments about election evidence, but I think you are still ignoring some facts that you must have seen, e.g. your relating that the Arizona evaluation found that the “vote count” was shown to be pretty accurate, but ignoring other findings about the integrity of the ballots counted. I think quite a few dead people voted, people who had moved away, etc., not to mention how the mail-in voting in many states violated the existing state laws and was particularly vulnerable to significant fraud. I don’t know if an absolutely honest count of honest ballots would change the results of the election, but I can’t be sure that it wouldn’t. Nothing he ever said or even hinted suggests that he wants to end free and fair elections - what I heard is exactly the opposite.

I’ve listened to the recording and read the things he said regarding trying to unfairly/dishonestly alter the election results and, while it’s obvious he didn’t accept the results, it sounded like him being himself and working hard to sell his position. Not to beat it to death, but suggesting that his saying “fight like hell” meant anything different than what every Democrat says in every email I get and hear in most speeches frankly seems dishonest to me.

You can have your opinion, but nothing I’ve heard or read, i.e. honest quotes, suggests that he supported the violence at the capitol and his reference to special people was in support of people who demonstrated peacefully in large numbers.

To suggest that the violence at the capitol was even remotely a threat to our democracy is, I think ludicrous. It was certainly inappropriate and will be punished, but if you think it had the least possibility of threatening our democracy, you aren’t very familiar with the strength, training and equipment of our federal law enforcement agencies. It’s sad and politically motivated incompetence and dishonesty that the huge amount of left wing rioting, destruction and even murder is going virtually without prosecution while hoards of small,businesses, many owned by people of color are bankrupted - the families bankrupted.

The most preposterous and offensive of your charges, in my opinion, is that of calling him a traitor. Obnoxious as you may find him, he strengthened our position in the world and put our country first in multitudes of ways that benefitted real contributing, working people. He showed respect for people who actually get things done as opposed to the flagrant arrogance of the democrat elite. If the press had honestly reported the positive things he put in place, many of which have been listed in this forum, there wouldn’t have been enough fraud in the world to put Biden over the top.

No, I’m not a fan of him personally, but I voted for him, he did an excellent job and I would very likely vote for him again. I have complete confidence that as much as every president in history would like to have been able to be a dictator in order to get things done, e.g. Trump’s health insurance improvements that were blocked by the Democrats, the checks and balances are in place to make it impossible for that to happen.

No, I don’t think you have an accurate balanced understanding of what has gone on or what’s going on now, but I think you’re capable of it.

[bgreene]

You claim you haven’t read anything that suggests trump supported the insurrection attempt at our Capitol ….
There’s been a lot of information reported and in the news about this .

Trump watched it on tv with glee.
Trump refused to send reinforcements to assist the badly outnumbered police .
Only Mike Pence was able to finally get assistance.
Trump delayed and delayed making a statement against the attack that had to be taped repeatedly until he’d say the right things.

Trump - the lying cheating con man who calls himself the law and order President .
The man who had completely non violent protestors hit with tear gas so he could walk to a church for a photo op.
Trump who said he’d send our military into cities to quell violence.

He encouraged, watched , and praised his violent mob overwhelm our police , smash their way into our Capitol, chanting hang Mike Pence our Vice President . Then he said they were very special people that he loved .

All because he LOST the election . ZERO real evidence of election fraud . ZERO found through his forced voting audits. NO EVIDENCE just nonsense conspiracy theories.
You want to over ride our system of free and fair elections based on empty claims and lies ?

Trumps a lying, cheating traitor to our country.
You want to pretend all this didn’t happen — all you’re doing is weakening our chance of remaining a democracy.

[Pipe_Dream]

Originally Posted by scook

Thanks for a direct response. I agree that there’s plenty on a personal level to not like about the man and I often found his self promotion tedious. He has a huge ego, which of course is necessary to take on that job, especially with a dishonest media, Clinton/democrat machine and traitorous, dishonest FBI and cooperating bureaucracy attacking him with blatant, despicable dishonesty from before he was even elected - I don’t think you would deny that.

Not being a politician, he didn’t do a great job hiding his ego. Consider the size of Obama’s ego to have the temerity to even run for the biggest executive job in the world with a resume that wouldn’t qualify him for managing a gas station or 711 store - zero executive experience of any kind that I know of. He was an experienced Chicago politician, which pretty much by definition means dishonest, but he presented a smooth veneer. He presided over the biggest worsening in race relations in my experience, which was perpetuated by flagrant lies in the media under Trump.

I can understand how you would have taken a severe dislike to the man, but I think the opinions you have formed are extreme and inaccurate.

You have been adjusting your comments about election evidence, but I think you are still ignoring some facts that you must have seen, e.g. your relating that the Arizona evaluation found that the “vote count” was shown to be pretty accurate, but ignoring other findings about the integrity of the ballots counted. I think quite a few dead people voted, people who had moved away, etc., not to mention how the mail-in voting in many states violated the existing state laws and was particularly vulnerable to significant fraud. I don’t know if an absolutely honest count of honest ballots would change the results of the election, but I can’t be sure that it wouldn’t. Nothing he ever said or even hinted suggests that he wants to end free and fair elections - what I heard is exactly the opposite.

I’ve listened to the recording and read the things he said regarding trying to unfairly/dishonestly alter the election results and, while it’s obvious he didn’t accept the results, it sounded like him being himself and working hard to sell his position. Not to beat it to death, but suggesting that his saying “fight like hell” meant anything different than what every Democrat says in every email I get and hear in most speeches frankly seems dishonest to me.

You can have your opinion, but nothing I’ve heard or read, i.e. honest quotes, suggests that he supported the violence at the capitol and his reference to special people was in support of people who demonstrated peacefully in large numbers.

To suggest that the violence at the capitol was even remotely a threat to our democracy is, I think ludicrous. It was certainly inappropriate and will be punished, but if you think it had the least possibility of threatening our democracy, you aren’t very familiar with the strength, training and equipment of our federal law enforcement agencies. It’s sad and politically motivated incompetence and dishonesty that the huge amount of left wing rioting, destruction and even murder is going virtually without prosecution while hoards of small,businesses, many owned by people of color are bankrupted - the families bankrupted.

The most preposterous and offensive of your charges, in my opinion, is that of calling him a traitor. Obnoxious as you may find him, he strengthened our position in the world and put our country first in multitudes of ways that benefitted real contributing, working people. He showed respect for people who actually get things done as opposed to the flagrant arrogance of the democrat elite. If the press had honestly reported the positive things he put in place, many of which have been listed in this forum, there wouldn’t have been enough fraud in the world to put Biden over the top.

No, I’m not a fan of him personally, but I voted for him, he did an excellent job and I would very likely vote for him again. I have complete confidence that as much as every president in history would like to have been able to be a dictator in order to get things done, e.g. Trump’s health insurance improvements that were blocked by the Democrats, the checks and balances are in place to make it impossible for that to happen.

No, I don’t think you have an accurate balanced understanding of what has gone on or what’s going on now, but I think you’re capable of it.

Well stated, all of it.

[Pipe_Dream]

Originally Posted by bgreene

You claim you haven’t read anything that suggests trump supported the insurrection attempt at our Capitol …. Trump supported and encouraged peaceful protests
There’s been a lot of information reported and in the news about this .

Trump watched it on tv with glee. an unnamed former official told (surprise) CNN

The man who had completely non violent protestors hit with tear gas so he could walk to a church for a photo op.I can't believe that you're still peddling such nonsense. Even the big networks have had to admit that that's not what happened.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...stors-n1270126

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/poli...ry?id=78171712




He encouraged, watched , and praised his violent mob overwhelm our police , smash their way into our Capitol, chanting hang Mike Pence our Vice President . Then he said they were very special people that he loved .
Bring on video supporting your position. What he actually said was
“We have come to demand that congress do the right thing, and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated. Lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."

If his speech was so inflammatory, why didn't/doesn't CNN play it?



You want to pretend all this didn’t happen — all you’re doing is weakening our chance of remaining a democracy.

You want to believe that so many things happened, despite lack of evidence and/or evidence to the contrary, and encouraged by a corrupt, biased corporate media.

[bgreene]

Originally Posted by Pipe_Dream

You want to believe that so many things happened, despite lack of evidence and/or evidence to the contrary, and encouraged by a corrupt, biased corporate media.

Just google the videos pipe dream and stop trying so hard to support disinformation and lies.
Oh and stop asking me to provide all data - trumps trained you to believe anything he says as the truth. Wrong - try fact checking

Why do you imagine our Capitol police were outnumbered for so long without any reinforcements called in ?
Siege on our Capitol, smashed in , our Vice President and his family in grave danger and no reinforcements right there at our Capitol.
Trump the lying cheating con man traitor who later called the violent criminals special people that he loved .
The so called law and order President - a con man disgrace to America

[scook]

If you have honest sources for your statements about Trump watching with glee, encouraging violence, etc., I’ll look at them. Not CNN, who have thoroughly convinced me of their flagrantly dishonest anti-Trump campaign, but real coverage, actually showing the events, not some reporter’s opinion based on an unknown source. I’ll have a serious look at your sources - what I’ve seen doesn’t support those views.

Regarding the election issue, I haven’t seen anything that concerns me about free and fair elections being a risk. Trump pushed very hard to have results analyzed and was thwarted at pretty much every turn - states destroying ballots before they could be looked at critically, a state ordering, I believe a million mail-in Democrat ballots with no envelopes, after it was too late to use them legitimately, etc. As I said, I don’t know if an honest count of honest ballots would change the election result, but the claim that there’s zero evidence of significant fraud seems to me pretty inaccurate. No conspiracy theories involved - lots of issues being uncovered and ignored by anti-Trump folks.

There was certainly a conspiracy by the Clinton campaign, the FBI and additional bureaucracy against Trump that anti-Trump folks are happy to ignore and minimize.

I’d just like to actually see what you call for - real, complete truth and facts.

[scook]

Sorry Pipe - I didn’t see your last post before writing mine. I’ll look at your links. Thanks

[bgreene]

Originally Posted by scook

If you have honest sources for your statements about Trump watching with glee, encouraging violence, etc., I’ll look at them. Not CNN, who have thoroughly convinced me of their flagrantly dishonest anti-Trump campaign, but real coverage, actually showing the events, not some reporter’s opinion based on an unknown source. I’ll have a serious look at your sources - what I’ve seen doesn’t support those views.

Regarding the election issue, I haven’t seen anything that concerns me about free and fair elections being a risk. Trump pushed very hard to have results analyzed and was thwarted at pretty much every turn - states destroying ballots before they could be looked at critically, a state ordering, I believe a million mail-in Democrat ballots with no envelopes, after it was too late to use them legitimately, etc. As I said, I don’t know if an honest count of honest ballots would change the election result, but the claim that there’s zero evidence of significant fraud seems to me pretty inaccurate. No conspiracy theories involved - lots of issues being uncovered and ignored by anti-Trump folks.

There was certainly a conspiracy by the Clinton campaign, the FBI and additional bureaucracy against Trump that anti-Trump folks are happy to ignore and minimize.

I’d just like to actually see what you call for - real, complete truth and facts.

If all that’s happened this past year isn’t clear enough for you then trumps claim that he could shoot someone in Times Square NY and get away with it is true.

[scook]

Well, Pipe’s links put the lie to the “ totally peaceful protesters” and violently clearing the square for a photo op. “Mostly peaceful” until the police showed up. Of course, just like my city Portland, it’s OK to be violent if it’s an anti-Trump or generally leftist “protest” and you’re pretty much obligated to get violent if the police arrive. Trump sent federal law enforcement to Portland and deputized our state police and several of our local agencies because our insanely “progressive” politicians are so dishonest and incompetent that they were allowing mobs to pull down statues (even one of an Elk), attack, smash windows and set fires at our central police precinct, federal courthouse and untold number of businesses. Yes, he was a law and order president.

As to the gleeful watching/supporting the violence at the capitol, I guessed it - an unnamed source told the baldfaced lying, virulently anti-Trump CNN. Good grief, if you believe CNN reporting on Trump, your opinions have no credibility.

You can believe what you choose to believe, but CNN and a bunch of their fellow far left outlets have lost credibility with their incessant conspiracy theories about Trump.

The more I see, the more it’s obvious that, notwithstanding his huge ego and tiresome self promotion, the “trying to overturn” an honest election (which wasn’t entirely honest, regardless of whether it was honest enough), inciting and gleefully encouraging the violence at the capitol, the traitor label just aren’t credible. Liars in the media are citing Trump’s “big lie” - the left has become so dishonest and so far off any reasonable policies that I think there is a serious threat to our democracy, but it’s not from Trump. My hope is that they’ve gone so far that the regular folks will wake up and put a stop to it.

I heard news today that Biden’s administration is now proposing compensating illegal aliens who have been separated from their families “for too long” $450,000 - you can’t make this stuff up.

I agree- fact checking is important - just try to avoid checking them with dishonest sources, and avoid leaping to extreme, unwarranted conclusions.

[bgreene]

Trump LOST the election by a wider margin than when he beat Clinton on 2016.
At that time trump praised our voting system .

Now trump LOST and with ZERO evidence of any real meaningful or significant shred of evidence he turned on his faithful VP Pence and turned against our democracy .

Because trump is a self serving lying con man traitor who obviously has classic malignant narcissistic personality disorder.

Here’s the complete report and video of the VIOLENT insurrection assault on our Capitol


https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/pol...upporters.html