Very sad

[RidgeRunner]

Wilson,

Severely disabled children are sent to special schools here in FL as well. There are some students that should be considered severely disabled but are not and some that are seriously disabled that make it through with a lot of special assistance. I know some of these children personally and their parents jump the moon to make sure their child maintains at least the minimum standards so they can continue in their grade or a grade level behind. Nothing wrong with that IMO.
An example of what I meant when I said the teachers teach to the least advanced child. Assume -The first FCAT is given to 3rd graders at the end of the school year. At the beginning of the year the Third Grade teacher has 22 children and 2 are new to the school and appear to be six months behind the rest of the students in the class.(It happens every year as Florida has a large population of migrant workers, military, influx of tourist etc.) Even if none of the students were considered special needs and the two new students were fast learners the teacher has a dilemma. Passing percentiles on the FCAT will ultimately determine the teachers pay and or their job. If they want to remain a teacher, it seems like they would adapt their lesson plan to ensure the best outcome. That is what I would do and that is what they are instructed to do.
My cousin is a teacher in FL, she has her Masters and probably makes $40K a year, she works at Fruitland Park with the seriously disabled. Even though Florida requires the passing of the FCAT in order to get a diploma the school system evaluates each case and pass them through the system when it doesn't make sense to keep them in the system any longer. Sometimes children are mainstreamed because it is about development of social skills and maturation that comes with the school regiment. Even though they will be grossly unprepared, they mingle amoungst us every day. They dropped the cirriculum a while back but I do recall when public school used to teach some life lessons and even some trades. home economics, wood shop, auto shop. They need to throw in a class on Child care. Nope, they just want you passing the FCAT.

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by RidgeRunner

They dropped the cirriculum a while back but I do recall when public school used to teach some life lessons and even some trades. home economics, wood shop, auto shop. They need to throw in a class on Child care. Nope, they just want you passing the FCAT.

My first son was a product of that type of class. He has a reading disability, and it makes it hard for him to comprehend the written word. He can read something over and over and just not understand it, but show him something once or twice and he locks onto it like a Terrier. Anyways, because of this the schools in Toms River had him in a program where he went to school for the morning, and in the afternoon he worked in a trade (HVAC) as an apprentance. By the time he graduated high school he was well on his way towards aquiring his blue seal refrigeration license. He lives in Az now, is 43, owns his own HVAC company and employs 12 people. (And yes, I'm very proud of him) Point being that the system worked well back then (mid 80's) So what happened? how did we get so far down this very bleak road? And how do we get back

[THEFERMANATOR]

Originally Posted by Destroyer

My first son was a product of that type of class. He has a reading disability, and it makes it hard for him to comprehend the written word. He can read something over and over and just not understand it, but show him something once or twice and he locks onto it like a Terrier. Anyways, because of this the schools in Toms River had him in a program where he went to school for the morning, and in the afternoon he worked in a trade (HVAC) as an apprentance. By the time he graduated high school he was well on his way towards aquiring his blue seal refrigeration license. He lives in Az now, is 43, owns his own HVAC company and employs 12 people. (And yes, I'm very proud of him) Point being that the system worked well back then (mid 80's) So what happened? how did we get so far down this very bleak road? And how do we get back

As you pointed it out, he had issues that the school recognized and educated him for something he could do. Now all they care about is to get the test scores for the money, so the kids aren't being thought of as people who need educating but as a paycheck and they're each a dollar sign now.

[RidgeRunner]

Big thumbs up on trade schools and On the Job Training programs. I participated in the same program in high school. Even served a term as President of our Diversified Cooperative Training Program in my senior year. That is as close to politics as I ever want to get. Taught me the ins and outs of parliamentary procedure and how bogged down the process can get.
With education there are so many variables it would be damn difficult to find any one part that couldn't use some tweaking. The student has to be motivated and want to learn. Until they get to that point by coersion of parents, teacher, or self motivated, they are going to be difficult to teach. I have always had it easy and I was somewhat rebellious in high school. I didn't want to be there. I wanted to party and make money. I was a slacker in school, did very little homework and managed to pull B's and C's. I have some regret for not applying myself better in school. What a waste of time, the teachers, fellow students, taxpayers, not to mention my parents money in college. I started to see the light in my sophomore year (third year) and actually learned how to study. (I took Engineering Calculus three times before I finally gave up my career as a engineer.) I took extra classes and worked hard. Ended up with a double major in business school at USF. So Wilson, I was a case where the teacher had to teach to a lesser standard.

Kudos to you Destroyer and son. That is a great outcome right there.

On the Classic Seacraft site there is a guy with a sig line that says,
"If you done it, it aint bragging."

[spareparts]

how ironic

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-of...110202341.html

[RWilson2526]

Originally Posted by RidgeRunner

Big thumbs up on trade schools and On the Job Training programs. I participated in the same program in high school. Even served a term as President of our Diversified Cooperative Training Program in my senior year. That is as close to politics as I ever want to get. Taught me the ins and outs of parliamentary procedure and how bogged down the process can get.
With education there are so many variables it would be damn difficult to find any one part that couldn't use some tweaking. The student has to be motivated and want to learn. Until they get to that point by coersion of parents, teacher, or self motivated, they are going to be difficult to teach. I have always had it easy and I was somewhat rebellious in high school. I didn't want to be there. I wanted to party and make money. I was a slacker in school, did very little homework and managed to pull B's and C's. I have some regret for not applying myself better in school. What a waste of time, the teachers, fellow students, taxpayers, not to mention my parents money in college. I started to see the light in my sophomore year (third year) and actually learned how to study. (I took Engineering Calculus three times before I finally gave up my career as a engineer.) I took extra classes and worked hard. Ended up with a double major in business school at USF. So Wilson, I was a case where the teacher had to teach to a lesser standard.

:

I saw your point on your first post but I dont see the connection on this post...My response about school districts teaching to the slowest kid was in response to Ferm's statement which is what I didnt agree with.

"Yet these kids are in the mainstream population, so EVERY kid in the district must learn at the slowest kids rate"

[RidgeRunner]

I held back my fellow students with my attitude toward learning. It wasn't my parents fault that I was uninterested in towing the line. Not exactly a special needs student but I tend to agree more with Ferm. If you can't leave the student behind and you have students that are behind in learning then you must bring them up to proficiency.

[RWilson2526]

I still think you're sniffin' wood glue down there Ridge but to each his own....The rest of the students in your class made out just fine....some I'm sure went on to be engineers or just plain productive people in society...and in the words of LumberSlinger and the immortal Judge Smails "the world needs ditch diggers too", and I'm sure some in your class went on to be that too.

Don't get me wrong our education system needs some improvement but what I am trying to say is the opportunity to learn and excel in school is there for those who chose or are able to do it. The problem is I'm worried that less and less kids are choosing to do it and I don't think that it is the education systems fault.

[awthacker]

I didn't say it first, but it now bears repeating... the world needs ditch diggers, too.