Considering buying a V20

[peiserma]

Hello everyone. I've been reading this forum for a while, and decided to join because I have a question.

I went to look at a 1987 Wellcraft V20 cuddy-cabin with a 2000 Optimax 225 HP today. I have looked at several other used boats, but didn't seriously consider buying any of the others.

The hull is in decent shape, other than a few gelcoat cracks. They seem to be mostly cosmetic. Transom appears/feels solid. The back-to-back seats on the port side need replaced. Captains chair is rough looking but functional. Trailer is serviceable, but will probably need new springs before too long.

The owner says he hasn't used it in 2 years, but that the motor ran the last time he used it. He did not do any winterizing. I just did a compression test, and the numbers are much lower than the repair manual says. Looking at the engine from the rear, the numbers are:

65 70
95 75
65 60

So the top left is 65 psi, the top right is 70. But I do not know what these numbers mean, especially for a motor that has been sitting for two years. Could it be that the rings just need some lubrication to seal properly? Other than tearing it down to remove the pistons, is there something that could be done as a further check?

There is another motor (same motor, but counter-rotating) with a cracked block available from the seller. Its for spare parts, obviously.

The asking price is 3K. Is it worth pursing this further and negotiating on price, or walk away? I'm pretty good with a wrench and instructions, but I fully realize this is not an easy DIY job. I did some minor engine work on my Firebird plus some major suspension work. It ended up taking 8 months before I drove that car again - but now I do own an engine hoist and a welder :) The point is that I have some DIY repair experience as opposed to never having turned a wrench in my life.

Anyway, your thoughts and feedback are appreciated.

[Destroyer]

Hi and welcome to the site. There are a number of really good guys here that can advise you on the engine etc. But from my own experience and reading the manual for my engine, the engines compression should be checked with the engine warm and all plugs removed. I'm thinking that if it sat for any length of time it probably needs to be run a little before you can get an accurate compression test. It's entirely possible/probable that you have stuck rings from the sitting.

[peiserma]

Thanks Destroyer. I'm wondering the same thing - the readings may not mean a whole lot. I would guess that any lubrication on the piston rings is long gone by now, and with that there is not a good seal. There's likely a coating of rust on the walls, too. But I have no real experience in this area.

If I could, I would drain all the fluids and the gas (two year old gas is still in the tank) Then I would get some lubricant and squirt it down the spark-plug holes and turn the engine over a few times to work the lubricant in there. But since its not mine, I can't really do that. And if I did (or the seller did), would the new compression numbers be useful, or would they give me a false sense of security?

[Macrenovations]

Was able to a few articles on this motor. For what I know about these motors it' a hit or mis kind of deal with the 200's and 225's..But lower compression after a motor has been sitting awhile is some what the norm but you should put about a teaspoon of oil in each cylinder and turn the motor over a few times then see if she will fire of course hook up the water hose.Let it run for 15 minutes shut it down then test ,Test again after it cools down as well..Let us know what the readings are...Good Luck


According to an article in the November issue of Motorboating, page 22 Mercury OptiMax 3-liter outboards (200 and 225-hp) are being recalled in an effort to stop plug fouling that occurs when trolling. Reasons cited were small variations in tolerance among spark plugs, thermostats and the ECM. A service advisory has been advised to replace the thermostat, fuel rail and reprogram the ECM. rob

10/12/01 2:36:00 PM Ancient Mariner (204.2.54.49) from TEXAS says Opti's
They had a fuel injector problem due to a supplier not following specs. Blown powerheads. Know a man who got the retrofit. His sister is a Bass guide and tournament fisherwoman and sponsored by Mercury and she experienced a blown powerhead. He had run his about 2 or 3 hours when she called him and told him not to even start the motor until he had the replacement parts. He did this and now has a whole bunch of trouble-free hours. Ron Gehrke at Cy-Fair Marine near Houston handled it for her. Hope this info helps. Only the big blocks were affected. I have a 150 and its fine. Tom
Incidentally, he replaced a Yamaha 225 and described the new motor as "powerful", "awesome" and, "doesn't burn any gas".

10/12/01 11:38:00 PM Nasty (47.234.0.51) from NORTH CAROLINA says 2001 Opti's
My 2001 225 opti's were recalled. They installed a new fuel rail, injectors and ecm. Merc said the had problems with about 800 of the 10,000 sold, but they are doing the recall on all of the 2001. The 1999-2000 did not have the problem. Merc is giving me an additional 2 yrs on the warrenty from the date of the retrofit. BTW the installed new plugs, 12 of them. The Bosch plugs are not cheep.

10/15/01 9:34:00 AM Sixer (155.91.6.71) from NEW JERSEY says My understanding....
is the problems were with the 2000 and up 200 and 225's using the digital systems. Earlier engines were not affected by this recall.

If you can take the boat to a shop and have them plug it in to see the real hours and max rpm's would be your safest bet. If all checks out 3000 not that bad....

[RWilson2526]

If you are really interested in buying it and the seller is interested in selling it he might let you mess with it to get the compression numbers up. Tell him the numbers seem goofy and why you think they are like that and the way it stands now you arent going to buy it unless you can see if the engine is servicable. Bring a portable gas tank for the gas issue and start working on it. Then again the seller might not want to know if the engine is shot so he can sell it to the next guy with a clear conscience but its worth asking I think.

[nymack66]

Be very concern with those numbers, low compression on an engine is no good and should be carefully look at , Please factor in a re-build cost for the engine before you make an offer ...

[peiserma]

Thank you all very much for the advice and feedback. Especially to Macrenovations for taking the time to look up all that info.

After the compression test, the seller indicated I could come back and check the engine some more. I admitted that I wasn't sure what low compression numbers mean on an engine that has been idle for so long. I have the following plan, assuming the seller is OK with everything: get some new spark plugs. Not cheap, but worth the money to see if I can get the motor to run. Work some oil into the cylinders through the spark plug holes. Change motor oil in order to look at the oil fill plug (for shavings) and see if its oil or sludge in there. I like the suggestion of a portable gas tank. That way I do not have to mess with draining the old gas, and I can throw in a $5 bottle of fuel injector cleaner (the outboard is fuel injected). Oh, and I should probably drain the lower unit to make sure it has no water in it.

What else would you suggest? Assuming the engine ran two years ago and has no major problems, can I reasonably expect that I can get the engine running with the steps outlined above?

I'm not sure about a couple things. First, I assume its possible to hook up a garden hose to cool the engine? Is there a FAQ (with illustrations if possible) on this?

Second, is it possible to run this motor on a portable tank? That outboard is pretty big and, like automobile fuel-injected motors, is going to need a fuel pump. Is the fuel pump external to the tank? What size hose do I need?

And finally, can the motor be turned over by hand, to work the oil into the cylinders? How would one go about doing this? Is there a service manual for the Optimax available on-line?

Thanks so much the help so far.

[peiserma]

Just talked to the seller. He's OK with what I want to do. He is even getting a portable gas tank from a friend. Fuel pump is on the motor, so that question is answered. Still looking for advice on the other questions.

Thanks.

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by peiserma

I have the following plan, assuming the seller is OK with everything: get some new spark plugs. Work some oil into the cylinders through the spark plug holes.

Good idea..

Change motor oil in order to look at the oil fill plug (for shavings) and see if its oil or sludge in there.

This is a 2 stroke engine...yes? If so there is no engine oil to change, other than the oil that's in the tanks ready to be pumped into the engine while the engine is running.. If he's running pre-mix than the portable tank will need to have the proper amount of 2 stroke oil mixed into it before you try to run the engine.

I like the suggestion of a portable gas tank. That way I do not have to mess with draining the old gas, and I can throw in a $5 bottle of fuel injector cleaner (the outboard is fuel injected).

Use Mercury injector cleaner. And I'd also highly recommend treating the fuel with Seafoam.

Oh, and I should probably drain the lower unit to make sure it has no water in it.

Absolutely a great idea... Look for metal shavings of any kind, as well as milky or cloudy oil.

What else would you suggest? Assuming the engine ran two years ago and has no major problems, can I reasonably expect that I can get the engine running with the steps outlined above?

Yes, however some things to keep in mind. Optimax engines require a marine starting battery with a mininum of 1000 Marine Cranking Amps. They are very power hungry while cranking because of the air and fuel injectors. And, while running, because of their huge power requirements, they don't start charging your battery(s) until about 2500 rpm. Below that they are drawing some power from the battery. Additionally, be sure that, when in neutral, the throttle cable is adjusted so that is holding the throttle arm up against the idle stop. The engine's computer is looking for a specific value from the throttle position sensor...and if the cable is not adjusted correctly this will trip an error code. (DON'T USE THE WARM UP LEVER OR THROTTLE ONLY FEATURE OF YOUR CONTROLS DURING STARTING).

I'm not sure about a couple things. First, I assume its possible to hook up a garden hose to cool the engine? Is there a FAQ (with illustrations if possible) on this?

Yes, use what are called engine muffs or mouse ears. Basically rubber disks that clamp around the bottom around the engine's water pick up holes and are attached to a garden hose. NEVER run an engine without water. You will destroy the rubber impeller inside your water pump in less than 10 seconds.

Second, is it possible to run this motor on a portable tank?

Yes.. in fact for your tests it's recommended so you can rule out possible old or bad fuel.

And finally, can the motor be turned over by hand, to work the oil into the cylinders? How would one go about doing this? Is there a service manual for the Optimax available on-line?

Yes, just turn the flywheel. It will probably be impossible or really, really hard to do with the plugs in, and since you want to work the oil into the cylinders and rings, it's advisable to have them all out... but it's so much easier to just use your engines' starter.. squirt the oil in and hit the starter switch for a few seconds to turn the engine over... let it sit for a few minutes..then do it again... you're done. Oh, and as a general rule of thumb, unless a service manual calls for it, never turn an engine backwards.. you can break things that are only designed to move in one direction.


Probably not on the service manual. They like to sell these things to make money. Look for Seloc or Clymers, or a genuine service manual from Mercury online in eBay. Usually they go for around $30-$50.


Hope that answered your questions, with a few comments thrown in for good measure. Red skys at night....

[macojoe]

Well if the boat is solid I would still consider it, The motor is spinning so I am guessing there is nothing to serious wrong with it.
$1500 to $2000 would be fine and if need be there are a lot of older good motors out there for cheap money.

good luck