This spells it out

[CaptJ]

I guess this pretty well says it all. We need a system that will allow outsiders to lawfully migrate to this country and a system that does not reward those that come here illegally.




You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".
Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California ...or Texas ....or... Arizona ....or.

Joe Legal works in construction has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Ready? Now pay close attention....

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30%
away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.0 0 per year. Jose Illegal
pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per
month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics and emergency
hospitals at a cost of $0 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money to be eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00
per month for food, or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps, WIC and welfare. Jose
Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631 .00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month Federal Rent SubsidyJose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for car insurance.Some of that is uninsured
motorist insurance.
Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc..

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out
of the country every month..

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work to make ends meet.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same elementary school. Joe Legal pays
for his children's lunches,
while Jose Illegal's children get a free, government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have a
free after school ESL
program. Joe Legal's children go home to an empty house.

Now, when they reach college age, Joe Legal's kids may not get into a State School and may not
qualify for scholarships,
grants or other tuition help, even though Joe has been paying for State Schools through his
taxes, while Jose Illegal's kids
"go to the head of the class" because they are a minority.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and
Jose did not pay anything.

Do you get it, now?

[lathehand]

Can't be any clearer:bat:

[Destroyer]

I have a problem with posts like this, cause they do nothing but flame the fires of racism. And that's wrong. Period. So, although I know it won't be popular, lets be honest about the math. Right now it's a little "fuzzy".

For instance, although Jose gets food stamps and other government subsities, he does not get the entire months food "free". He still has to pay a certain amount of money for his food. A greatly reduced amount, to be sure, but still enough to be significant. The maximum amount of food stamps that can be received per month by a household of one person is $162, of two persons is $298, and of three persons is $426. Food stamps are not intended to pay for all of the food needed for a month. So if both Joe and Jose pay $500 a month for food, then Jose has to pay $74 per month out of his own pocket. $74 x 12 = $888 per year. So Jose now has $30,312.

Now on to the rent issue. If Jose pays the same $1200 per month for his rent as Joe does, but receives a $500 per month subsity from the government, that means his actual outlay of funds from his own pocket is $700 (700 + 500 = 1200) or $8400 per year. So his $30,312 now becomes $21,912. There are other examples, but you get my point.

See what I mean? The math is fuzzy and is written in such a way as to cause resentment towards a certain race of people. I have a problem with racism, of any kind, towards any people.

My point of all this is that although there are, most definetly, inequalities and unfair advantages that illegals can receive, they do not have the bed of roses that are being portrayed. One only has to look at the gettos they live in to see that they have just as hard or harder a life as legal citizens.

If you don't like something, do something about it. Elect officials that share your feelings, hold them accountable, and FIX the problems. But as long as we continue to turn a blind eye to it, it will continue to exist. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

[spareparts]

I have a problem with posts like this, cause they do nothing but flame the fires of racism. And that's wrong. Period. So, although I know it won't be popular, lets be honest about the math. Right now it's a little "fuzzy".

For instance, although Jose gets food stamps and other government subsities, he does not get the entire months food "free". He still has to pay a certain amount of money for his food. A greatly reduced amount, to be sure, but still enough to be significant. The maximum amount of food stamps that can be received per month by a household of one person is $162, of two persons is $298, and of three persons is $426. Food stamps are not intended to pay for all of the food needed for a month. So if both Joe and Jose pay $500 a month for food, then Jose has to pay $74 per month out of his own pocket. $74 x 12 = $888 per year. So Jose now has $30,312.

Now on to the rent issue. If Jose pays the same $1200 per month for his rent as Joe does, but receives a $500 per month subsity from the government, that means his actual outlay of funds from his own pocket is $700 (700 + 500 = 1200) or $8400 per year. So his $30,312 now becomes $21,912. There are other examples, but you get my point.

See what I mean? The math is fuzzy and is written in such a way as to cause resentment towards a certain race of people. I have a problem with racism, of any kind, towards any people.

My point of all this is that although there are, most definetly, inequalities and unfair advantages that illegals can receive, they do not have the bed of roses that are being portrayed. One only has to look at the gettos they live in to see that they have just as hard or harder a life as legal citizens.

If you don't like something, do something about it. Elect officials that share your feelings, hold them accountable, and FIX the problems. But as long as we continue to turn a blind eye to it, it will continue to exist. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

:clap:

Well put. I do have issues with Illegal Immigration, mostly with our current Governments stance on it and using Immigration as a vote buyer. But it needs to be addressed as an immigration issue, not a racial issue.

[Blue_Runner]

I didn't really see it as racist but maybe I missed that part. Which part makes it racist? Using the name Jose? Fuzzy math, I agree but even if you take away the fuzzy part of the math Jose still has more money, so I don't see the fuzzy math part contributing to racism.

[willy]

Neither do I, and the name could have been Barack and Bill.

The math as usual is always suspect and even though it is not perfect it is correct in that a hard working guy named Bill is getting the royal shafting by Barack.

As are all the other Americans who are paying these bills.

And just another thought to Blue's point, if those illegals were voting Republican that wall would have been built two decades ago and mass round ups would have occurred.
That is because these Statists that are in the demo/socialist party could not care less about Jose or Joe. It is dependent voting blocks.
Period.

[awthacker]

Yeah... it's not racist, at all. I guess the use of Joe and Jose make it a little distasteful to some, and the math is fuzzy, but the point is well made. And it's true that people are the problem, not the laws. But it's posts like this and the ensuing discussions that amount to "doing something about it". Let's face it... there ain't no one out there up for election of any office that is worth a ****. Maybe through social media, one day there will be. I do think the public is tiring of business as usual on capital hill... then again, it's probably always been that way and nothing will probably ever change.

[Kracker Jack]

I sense sarcasism in the story which is the point but not racism. I could think of a few other words that could have been used to make it racist. This story reminds me of a piece of property that i hunted for about 16 years, I worked my @$$ off planting food plots and setting tree stands. I had alot of work involved on this property. I let a buddy of mine hunt there about 3 years ago and he killed a huge 8 pointer that I had been seeing for about 3 years prior. Moral of the story is im glad he got him a nice buck but i had alot of time and money vested in the property just for him to slip in there for 1 hunt and shoot a sweet deer. I was kinda aggrevated for a while over that one!! lol!!!

[Destroyer]

Ok.. As I said in my post, I knew it wouldn't be a popular stance, and that's ok, cause I'm a big boy and I can handle some controversy.

Rac·ism
/***712;re***618;http://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngs***618;zhttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png***601;m/ Show Spelled [rey-siz-uhhttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngm] noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination. I.E. slavery

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

4. racial prejudice or discrimination.

Yes, it is a racist post.

Some of you hit the nail on the head with the name thing. (and it's the names that make it racist) I'll spell it out for you.

Joe is our normal American hero worker/father

Jose is our normal Spanish illegal worker/father.

From the post we now know that all American worker/fathers are good hard working people that take on a second job to make ends meet,

And we all know that Spanish worker/fathers are all illegals that sit on their asses during the weekend.

The post sublimally makes you resent people of the Spanish race. And that makes it racist.

Do I hate illegals being in my country and taking jobs from Americans?
Of course I do. You only have to look at any one of several hundred posts I've made to know my feelings on this issue, but I hate ALL illegals, not just the Spanish. Not just the Russians, Not just the French, not just the Canadians, not any one particular race. Just because there are more Spanish illegals does not mean that you single out that particular race. If you do that makes you a racist.

I work in the construction industry. I work alongside people of Spanish heritage every day. Not a one of them is illegal, some are 3rd and 4th generation Americans, they're all hard working, and I'll be damned if I'll allow anyone to paint them with the same broad brush of hate simply because their last name is Rodrigus or Ramirez or whatever.

So yes, the original post was racist, because it painted the entire Spanish race as being illegal bums. And that makes it wrong.:devil:

PS.. I'd be a lot more tolerant of this post if it was Joe1 and Joe2

[Destroyer]

Neither do I, and the name could have been Barack and Bill.

But it wasn't. It was Joe and Jose. Jose is exclusively a Spanish name and that made the post racist.

I don't disagree with you about your comments on voting blocks or anything else, just take out the racism and make it Joe1 and joe2 and you got my vote.

[Destroyer]

Which part makes it racist? Using the name Jose?

Bingo. Give that man a Ceeegar

[THEFERMANATOR]

But it wasn't. It was Joe and Jose. Jose is exclusively a Spanish name and that made the post racist.

I don't disagree with you about your comments on voting blocks or anything else, just take out the racism and make it Joe1 and joe2 and you got my vote.

That's splitting hairs and taking political correctness to far IMHO. So lets call them Jose legal and Jose illegal. No change, but it makes it PC. As for the math, I'm not going there. After having my wifes income cut in half this year with the new taxes and BS they stuck teachers with in our district this year, and me not able to bring in much money raising our son. I know the money crunch all to well. And it REALLY boils my blood knowing all those ILLEGALS that were in teh hospital popping out anchor babies when my wife gave birth were covered 100%, meanwhile we ended up shelling out close to $10K last year for medical even with her platinum lined Blue Cross state policy.

[willy]

And there it is, Destroyer I get your point but frankly I feel that being politically correct is not my thing.
So a definition from a book can be stretched to make basically any discussion racist and thus we have the leftist use of PC speech to silence thought and discussion.
So, do we currently have a huge problem with millions of thief's in the night stealing across our border from JAPAN. No we don't, we have 11 to 18 MILLION illegal immigrants and yes, Jose and Juan is a common name amongst them.
So the politically correct version would be to refer to them as undocumented persons.
To me they are illegal aliens, they have committed crimes against our nation and in spite of that our people, you know the RACIST people have been footing the bill for them for decades.
So Jose is different from Joe. And this being America, Joe is going to point that out and not be silenced or muffled by the PC Police.
Jose is different not because he speaks spanish or the color of his skin. Jose is different because he snuck across the desert, in the middle of the night and dug a tunnel under the border and is now sitting in our country illegally and mean while millions of people from other nations in the world have been doing it legally to emigrate to the U.S. but can't do to the small numbers we can let in here. Do you know why? Because of all the Jose's here which are already living off the system.
There, I said it.
Racist me.

[Destroyer]

And there it is, Destroyer I get your point but frankly I feel that being politically correct is not my thing.
So a definition from a book can be stretched to make basically any discussion racist and thus we have the leftist use of PC speech to silence thought and discussion.
So, do we currently have a huge problem with millions of thief's in the night stealing across our border from JAPAN. No we don't, we have 11 to 18 MILLION illegal immigrants and yes, Jose and Juan is a common name amongst them.
So the politically correct version would be to refer to them as undocumented persons.
To me they are illegal aliens, they have committed crimes against our nation and in spite of that our people, you know the RACIST people have been footing the bill for them for decades.
So Jose is different from Joe. And this being America, Joe is going to point that out and not be silenced or muffled by the PC Police.
Jose is different not because he speaks spanish or the color of his skin. Jose is different because he snuck across the desert, in the middle of the night and dug a tunnel under the border and is now sitting in our country illegally and mean while millions of people from other nations in the world have been doing it legally to emigrate to the U.S. but can't do to the small numbers we can let in here. Do you know why? Because of all the Jose's here which are already living off the system.
There, I said it.
Racist me.

Oh really? So you will condem and lump in the millions upon millions of LEGAL Spanish immigrants (and there are far more of them than the illegal varity) with the illegal Spanish immigrants? I'm not being pollitically correct. Don't you dare try and hang that label on me. I don't speak PC. Ya, there are tons of Juans and Jose's living off the system, but there are also tons of LEGAL Juans and Joses paying INTO the system. They are legal and they pay their taxes and they complain about the illegals just the same as we do. All I'm saying is don't condem them because of the actions of some of their countrymen. If you use an exclusively Spanish name then you are targeting a particular race of people, and that makes it racist. Don't you see that?

Look, I have no patience with illegal immigrants. It took me 10 years and over $20,000 dollars to get my second cousin here from Poland. (And she was a registered nurse with a college degree). So I'm the last person in the world that tollerates people that come here illegally. But I WILL NOT condem an entire race of people for the actions of a (relatively speaking) few.

The post was inaccurate and racist, and it has no place here. We're better than that.

[RidgeRunner]

Subscribed. -I already have an opinion. I really don't like system, or the folks that abuse it. Whatever your race, shame on you for playing the race card when someone is just trying to illustrate how working the system pays better than working a real job.

[Destroyer]

That's splitting hairs and taking political correctness to far IMHO. So lets call them Jose legal and Jose illegal. No change, but it makes it PC. As for the math, I'm not going there. After having my wifes income cut in half this year with the new taxes and BS they stuck teachers with in our district this year, and me not able to bring in much money raising our son. I know the money crunch all to well. And it REALLY boils my blood knowing all those ILLEGALS that were in teh hospital popping out anchor babies when my wife gave birth were covered 100%, meanwhile we ended up shelling out close to $10K last year for medical even with her platinum lined Blue Cross state policy.

No, using "Jose" is what makes it racist. Use Joe or Bob or Bill or John or whatever generic name you want and I'm with ya all the way. Just don't use somethig that is exclusively tied to one particular race.

Look, I'm NOT condoning the actions of the illegals. If it was up to me I'd put them all in jail, make them work to pay off their debt to our society, and then ship them all back to whatever country they came from. Condoning them has never been my position. All I'm saying is that there is a huge population of legal immigrants, from the same countries that the illegals came from, that do not deserve to be lumped into the same pot with the illegal varity. Doing so is wrong. It's not being politically correct, it's just being correct. As far as the subject of voting blocks, money cuts, anchor babies, etc., etc., goes I'm with ya. I don't like it any more than you do. My wife also works for the state, and I also have seen the pay cuts just like you have. But I'm just not going to condem my friends because their names happen to be Spanish in origin. I think Hitler did that a few years ago with anyone who's name's happened to end with Stein or Berg etc. I'm not going there.

[THEFERMANATOR]

No, using "Jose" is what makes it racist. Use Joe or Bob or Bill or John or whatever generic name you want and I'm with ya all the way. Just don't use somethig that is exclusively tied to one particular race.

I know we don't agree on this, but this statement is the DEFINITION of PC run amuck. So in the interest of "fairness" lets make it habib legal, and jose illegal, or any other HUNDREDS of names that would make it more PC. Simply because they chose names that would relate easier to people in NO way makes it racist.

[RidgeRunner]

No winning the debate, just a steaming hill of the days BS to stir the masses. It really doesn't matter at the end because nobody has accomplished anything to correct what is wrong.
Arguments of illegal immigration are riddled with emotions because the first step taken by any illegal immigrant was to break the law. For that the taxpayers are expected to hand over the best health care, SS benefits, and govt. housing. No wonder the country is in the toilet and massively in debt. Paying out benefits to anyone that hasn't contributed should be illegal. I am not talking about Latinos Destroyer. I was referring to Obama's Kenyan auntie. The one that refused to leave the country after two Immigration judges ordered her to do so. Still living in govt. housing in MA receiving SS and still as worthless and even more dependant than ever on the system. Sorry, there are too many native-born tax-paying Americans that could use a leg up for this to be occuring. Good folks that try hard, work for a living and contribute to the system are tired of watching the illegals stealing the tax dollars from the system.
Ferman, I paid approx $6k this past year in co-insurance alone plus the premium on our 90/10 plan. They definitely have not fixed what is wrong with health care.
God bless anyone that seeks to be a citizen the legal way. If I were one, I would do just about anything to better my position, through hard work..

[willy]

Nobody lumped illegal aliens in with legal aliens, that was your leap.
My statement specifically spoke to the illegal alien.
And it most certainly PC speech police to not able to pick two common names from the two groups referred to in that piece.
Fuzzy math is one thing, even though I am willing to bet it is not as fuzzy as you think.
In fact I am dealing with apartment complexes here in NJ where hundreds of the apartments are filled with illegal Hispanics. Between Federal aid and state and township aid they are living rent free. I know they are because the only time they get evicted is when one of the agencies does not come through for some reason.
The school system is full of their children, they are not paying property taxes to cover that. I am.
They get free medical care, they are not paying for that, I am.
They work jobs in which they get paid in cash, and they have cash. No income taxes.
They shop at local Bodegas that have sprung up all over town, do you know why? Because the Bodegas do mostly cash business and don't charge taxes on a lot of items.
They get food stamps out the kazoo and the bodegas let them use them for anything. Including calls home to Honduras or Mexico or where ever. They do a lot of internet calls at these stores and get paid in food stamps.
How do I know these things, cause I see it and hear about it all the time. Been going on for more years than I can count.
There is now a whole industry in this country involving illegals getting over.
Go talk to the people in L.A, that city has a major problem with sales tax. Why? Because they have a huge underground economy based on cash in their majority Hispanic community. Their schools are filled with these kids whose parents are not paying taxes for, One reason is you have four families living in one rental,
You should see what we have going on in Flemington NJ< I go into the apartment with the landlord, One guy rents the apartment, they have the rooms with two by four and plastic walls nailed up and triple bunk beds on both sides of the room. They have twelve of fourteen people living in there.
This is going on all over this country. Trillions of dollars spent.
And we got moron politicians who base their power base on these poor people.
It is a national disgrace what we have allowed to happen in our country.
I will be damned if I am going to be PC about it.
and let me tell you, two of my brothers married beautiful Colombian girls and you want to hear some outright pissed of Hispanics, ask these two women what they think of the illegals after what their families went through to come here legally. Juan and Jose would be chewed up and spit out by these ladies.

[Destroyer]

Nobody lumped illegal aliens in with legal aliens, that was your leap.
My statement specifically spoke to the illegal alien.
And it most certainly PC speech police to not able to pick two common names from the two groups referred to in that piece.
Fuzzy math is one thing, even though I am willing to bet it is not as fuzzy as you think.
In fact I am dealing with apartment complexes here in NJ where hundreds of the apartments are filled with illegal Hispanics. Between Federal aid and state and township aid they are living rent free. I know they are because the only time they get evicted is when one of the agencies does not come through for some reason.
The school system is full of their children, they are not paying property taxes to cover that. I am.
They get free medical care, they are not paying for that, I am.
They work jobs in which they get paid in cash, and they have cash. No income taxes.
They shop at local Bodegas that have sprung up all over town, do you know why? Because the Bodegas do mostly cash business and don't charge taxes on a lot of items.
They get food stamps out the kazoo and the bodegas let them use them for anything. Including calls home to Honduras or Mexico or where ever. They do a lot of internet calls at these stores and get paid in food stamps.
How do I know these things, cause I see it and hear about it all the time. Been going on for more years than I can count.
There is now a whole industry in this country involving illegals getting over.
Go talk to the people in L.A, that city has a major problem with sales tax. Why? Because they have a huge underground economy based on cash in their majority Hispanic community. Their schools are filled with these kids whose parents are not paying taxes for, One reason is you have four families living in one rental,
You should see what we have going on in Flemington NJ< I go into the apartment with the landlord, One guy rents the apartment, they have the rooms with two by four and plastic walls nailed up and triple bunk beds on both sides of the room. They have twelve of fourteen people living in there.
This is going on all over this country. Trillions of dollars spent.
And we got moron politicians who base their power base on these poor people.
It is a national disgrace what we have allowed to happen in our country.
I will be damned if I am going to be PC about it.
and let me tell you, two of my brothers married beautiful Colombian girls and you want to hear some outright pissed of Hispanics, ask these two women what they think of the illegals after what their families went through to come here legally. Juan and Jose would be chewed up and spit out by these ladies.

Willy I agree with almost everything you spelled out here. I've never said that illegals were any good, or that the system that's sprung up around them was anything but a crock of sh!t spawned by politicians that are using these pieces of filth for ther own advantages, at the cost to you and I.

But you touched ever so gently on my point, even though you probably don't realize it. You mentioned your two brothers. You said they married beautiful Columbian ladies and that they are as pissed off as anyone else about the situation with the illegals.

BUT THE POST ABOUT JUAN LUMPED THEM RIGHT IN WITH EVERY ILLEGAL, simply because they are Spanish. The implication was that all Spanish people were illegals. Don't you see that? This isn't about whether the illegals are good or bad (they are bad) This is about whether ALL Spanish peoples are good or bad. By calling the illegal POS in the post Juan that's exactly what happened. And that's what I'm trying to point out. NOT every Spanish person is a POS illegal. Most are decent, law abiding citizens that work hard and pay their taxes just like the rest of us.....and I don't want to see them tarred with the same brush as the illegal peoples.

[lumberslinger178]

:fight:willy and destroyer....lol

IMO this was not racist by no means

[willy]

Willy and Destroyer speak their minds, thats all.
Now Mr. Destroyer in a few weeks I am going to have the G Spot opened up and I want to meet you and that other crazy North Jersey guy Rob at Hopatcong for some small mouth and walleye.
You in?:beer:

[Destroyer]

Willy and Destroyer speak their minds, thats all.
Now Mr. Destroyer in a few weeks I am going to have the G Spot opened up and I want to meet you and that other crazy North Jersey guy Rob at Hopatcong for some small mouth and walleye.
You in?:beer:

Did you have to ask? LOL sure. :happy:

[Destroyer]

Ok, let me try, one last time, to spell it out for everyone. We all know that there are not just Spanish illegals in America. There is also a failr large contingent of Slovaks..(Russian, Polish, Chez, etc). A fairly large contingent of Canadians, Koreans, Japanese, etc.

The post was designed and worded in such a way as to inflame anger towards illegals living in this Country. But not just any illegals. Now, ask yourself... when you read the post, did you feel anger towards Canadians? No?, ok then, how about Koreans? No?, ok then, how about Slovaks? Still no? Hmmm... did you just feel anger towards Spanish illegals? Yes? Ok then.. now we're making progress. That singling out of one particular race is what makes the post racist. It is designed and worded, in such a way as to make you angry strictly and solely towards Spanish illegals. That's racism 101 folks. If you don't agree, well, like the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. I can point out to you why it's racist, but if you don't want to accept it, well, again, I can't force you. I agree with almost everything in the original post, I just do not like it being racial towards one particular ethnicity, no matter if they have the largest or smallest percentage of illegals in the Country.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Ok, let me try, one last time, to spell it out for everyone. We all know that there are not just Spanish illegals in America. There is also a failr large contingent of Slovaks..(Russian, Polish, Chez, etc). A fairly large contingent of Canadians, Koreans, Japanese, etc.

The post was designed and worded in such a way as to inflame anger towards illegals living in this Country. But not just any illegals. Now, ask yourself... when you read the post, did you feel anger towards Canadians? No?, ok then, how about Koreans? No?, ok then, how about Slovaks? Still no? Hmmm... did you just feel anger towards Spanish illegals? Yes? Ok then.. now we're making progress. That singling out of one particular race is what makes the post racist. It is designed and worded, in such a way as to make you angry strictly and solely towards Spanish illegals. That's racism 101 folks. If you don't agree, well, like the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. I can point out to you why it's racist, but if you don't want to accept it, well, again, I can't force you. I agree with almost everything in the original post, I just do not like it being racial towards one particular ethnicity, no matter if they have the largest or smallest percentage of illegals in the Country.

I guess I'm an exception as teh jose reference did not cause me to single out just spanish illegals. One could argue that using billy bob could be racist, or somebody with a name with no vowels. It's all in the perception of teh person reading it, and I didn't find it racist in any way.

[Blue_Runner]

By the same logic, saying "Joe" legal.....implies all Americans obey the law?

[phatdaddy]

the only one i was upset about was jose,

in your other analogy, were you the water or the horse?

[Destroyer]

the only one i was upset about was jose,

in your other analogy, were you the water or the horse?

Neither, I was the one LEADING the horse. (although I'm thinking that it's more like a donkey than a horse) :butt:

[Destroyer]

By the same logic, saying "Joe" legal.....implies all Americans obey the law?

Actually, you're sort of correct. In my second post on this subject I said

Joe is our normal American hero worker/father

Jose is our normal Spanish illegal worker/father

The implication was that American Joe was a good guy and Spanish Jose wasn't.

[Destroyer]

I guess I'm an exception as teh jose reference did not cause me to single out just spanish illegals. One could argue that using billy bob could be racist, or somebody with a name with no vowels. It's all in the perception of teh person reading it, and I didn't find it racist in any way.

Ferm, if, when you read the original post, you didn't think that Jose was Spanish then that's great, cause that's the way it should be.. the post should be against ALL illegal trash that are destroying our Country, not just the Spanish ones.

[willy]

I thought he was Spanish, still feel the same, it is mostly about South Americans stealing into our country. That is the major illegal alien problem we have.
we don't have a major problem with Slovicks stealing across our border, nor Asians.

[CaptJ]

Wow, haven't checked on this but it appears to have gone viral and has taken a direction I never would have anticipated. When I forwarded this, from an email I received, I did not even contemplate racism. I saw it as eye opening, be it exaggerated, dollars earned comparing illegal and legal people.

For the record, I am far from racist and have many friends of many ethnicities. All four of my grandparents came off of a boat and through Ellis Island. Obtaining their citizenship the long hard way.

I do not feel that we should have illegals from any country living in the USA. Earning an untaxed living, medical care and much more. If you want to come here do it legally, like my ancestors and two of my in-laws.

Those were my feelings. We all read and interpret things differently, it all stems from our personal life experiences.

[Destroyer]

Wow, haven't checked on this but it appears to have gone viral and has taken a direction I never would have anticipated. When I forwarded this, from an email I received, I did not even contemplate racism. I saw it as eye opening, be it exaggerated, dollars earned comparing illegal and legal people.

For the record, I am far from racist and have many friends of many ethnicities. All four of my grandparents came off of a boat and through Ellis Island. Obtaining their citizenship the long hard way.

I do not feel that we should have illegals from any country living in the USA. Earning an untaxed living, medical care and much more. If you want to come here do it legally, like my ancestors and two of my in-laws.

Those were my feelings. We all read and interpret things differently, it all stems from our personal life experiences.

I never figured you for a racist CaptJ. I sincerely hope that neither you or anyone else took it that way. I felt the post was racist, since it targeted just one race of people, instead of all illegals, however we all know that these types of posts are usually copy/paste items from other sources.

And besides, as long as they are done without rancor, personally I feel that intense discussions like this one are actually a good thing. They provide an opportunity for people to express how they feel about a subject. If people don't talk about things, how will others know and be able to agree or disagree with them?

[CaptJ]

No worries on this end Destroyer. Like you, I truly enjoy reading and discussing these issues.

[sawbuck]

you guys are splitting hairs .make jose legal and joe illegal ...do we still have same problem ?

[Destroyer]

you guys are splitting hairs .make jose legal and joe illegal ...do we still have same problem ?

25 million illegals in this country is hardly hair splitting. The fact that more than half of them are of Spanish heritage does not mean that you castigate the entire Spanish race because of it.


It's obvious you don't see the reason for my post, so I'll put you in the "horse to water" catagory and move on. Have a good day.

[awthacker]

Does it change how anyone feels if I point out that Jose is actually Mexican, not Spanish?

[Destroyer]

Does it change how anyone feels if I point out that Jose is actually Mexican, not Spanish?

Only if you can somehow convince me that Mexicans are not part of the Spanish heritage. :sly: