etec 150 vs optimax 150

[reyb]

So, an '07 eTec 150 just popped up for $8500 with prop only and 3yr warranty. Also, there is still available an '06 optimax 150 for $8500(no prop/controls) and 3yrs warranty. Spares made a good point how it is expensive to repair the optimax. What I'm wondering is what about the eTec? Arguments were made for the Yamaha 150 2stroke but I don't like the idea of the 2-stroke because I'm a little concerned about the range I would have. The DF140 seems like a good motor but I think only a 2010 model is only available so I'm estimating around $11k installed. Man, I sound like a broken record with this repowering issue. :( What do you guys think about the etec over the optimax?

[THEFERMANATOR]

Both are good engines so long as they are under warranty, but out of warranty they are BOTh expensive. The OPTIS have the air pump along with an electric fuel pump and then 2 injectors per cylinder for the air and fuel. The ETEC uses 6 injectors and an alectric fuel pump, but it uses ALOT more electricity to fire the injectors which is one of the main downfalls of the FICHTS. The OPTI uses high pressure air to shoot the fuel into the combustion chamber whereas the ETEC uses an electric solonoid to do it. It's really a toss up either way to me as I wouldn't want either of them out of warranty.

[joe7670]

If the 06 is a NOS model wouldn't they cover it under the Mercury promotion going on where you get 5 years?

[reyb]

Thanks Ferm. Do you have an opinion on the DF140...reliability and out-of-warranty? If I could get a 200mile range with the Yamaha 150txr, then I think I could be happy with that; I have a 60gal fuel tank.

[THEFERMANATOR]

The 140 SUZUKI is a great engine as well. It isn't regarded as powerful though for a 140 as it is the same basic engine as the 90 and 115HP. Still more than enough for a V-20 as RM is very happy with his and says he gets about 5 MPG out of it. The YAMAHA 150 carbed 2 stroke is a pretty much legendary engine like that of the 150 JOHNNY-RUDES from the 90's. It is actually decent on fuel for a carbed 2 stroke and is about as reliable as one can be. Also it is a low maintence engine that is easy to work on.

[reyb]

If the 06 is a NOS model wouldn't they cover it under the Mercury promotion going on where you get 5 years?

With the local optimax that's for sale, I went to the extent of calling a dealership to see what the deal was with the warranty but they needed the serial number. I didn't follow up with it after reading what Spares said about the optimax and the cost involved with repairing it.

[spareparts]

as far as parts for the opti vs the e-tec once its out of waranty, there are some aftermarket stuff available for the Opti power head, I'm not aware of anything available for the e-tec. I'm still a little scared of the e-tec, although they are great performing engines and are earing a good reputation. If it were me(and I didn't work on boats for a living) and it was between the opti and e-tec, I'd make my decision on my local dealers, which one and how many of them are going to take care of my motor when I need it done, and do a good job. It changes from area to area, around here, ther are 10-12 dealers and shops that do good work on Yamahas, 5-6 that do good work on Merc's, Two that work on e-tecs. I know where I'll have a better choice of service adn parts when(if) I need it. I still think the 150 Yamaha 2 stroke is the way to go. the Suzukis don't have the good rep they once held in this area(corrosion and high parts price), but they are good running engines. I'd check out some boat manufactures, if there are any sitting on loose motors, they would probably make you a deal.

BTW, be carefull of the NOS engines when titleing. SC requires a title on the engine. All the motor manufactures have stopped using a year model designation and only using a serial number and model number to distinguish them, it was supposed to keep dealers from having to sell new engines as non current inventory. Some dealers are selling older motors as NOS, but giving them current year title when sold(in service date), the year model is still set by the production date(day it was assembled), not by the manufactures "year model" or series. The epa sets the year model for certification on emisions. Titleing an older motor as current can get a dealer in a bunch of trouble from falsifying a title to violation of epa laws. Giving an older motor a new title can effect the loan value and be cosidered fraud by the banks. If the production date is 09, then its an 09, if the production date is 06, and its being sold as an 09, then it fraud. this is new teritory for the dealers and a lot of them are not intentionally doing wrong, they just don't know any different

[reyb]

I wouldnt' mind going the Yamaha 150 2-stroke route, but I'm just concerned at the range I'll have. If this motor gets 2.5mpg(which I have no idea what real life numbers it gets), then I'll have a range of about 150 miles(60gals). The other motors are getting something like 4mpg, so that'll put the range at 240 miles. I know with my old '88 150 Black Max, I went out 30 miles, cruised around a bit looking for fish, then headed on in with just a slight detour(may be 10 miles total). Total miles was approx. 80 miles+/-. Imo, I didn't do a lot of cruising/fishing. When I got to the dock I had less than 1/4 tank left. May be the Black Max was old and tired and that's why it used a lot of fuel.

Just search for trained service dealers and here's what I found:

2 Evinrude

2 Yamaha

12 Mercury

[spareparts]

I'm not a big fan of them, but have you priced a verado?

[reelapeelin]

Arguments were made for the Yamaha 150 2stroke but I don't like the idea of the 2-stroke because I'm a little concerned about the range I would have.

All 3 motors you mention are 2 strokes...

[willy]

They are all good motors, if you are insistent on extended range get any one of them to be honest with you. A good running brand new under warranty Yamaha 150 carbed two stroke would far and away be my first choice among the engines you mention. The difference in fuel economy is not that great. If you are going to do like a lot of fellows that have the cash to do it, and buy a new engine before your warranty expires, then I would go with any one of them.
If you are going to keep the motor after the warranty expires I would trade a little fuel economy for the superior reliabilty of the Yamaha 150 carb.
Just my thoughts on it.
As a matter of fact if I can raise the dough, I am planning on selling my 18 year old trouble free Yammie 150 for a new version and selling my current one for some cash to pay for install and some accessories.
Let me know which one of the engines you mention you think you will get 18 to twenty years on, with basically the cost of oil and fuel and the ability to fix any of the much simplar issues that come up, if any come up that is. None have on mine.
Never mind we already know the answer don't we.

[captpete13]

giver the choice between the Opti and Etec I would also go with the Opti. But Willy is on the money there about the carb 150 Yamaha. They are as reliable as they come and will outlast the aluminum that they are made of. I can't count how many really old yamahas that I've seen fall apart from corrosion but still run perfect. But you better hurry,this is the last year for any carbed 2 stroke yamaha.

[willy]

And the years after around 1988 or so are a lot more corrosion resistant, mine has been in the salt its whole life and has zero corrosion on it and it is a 92

[reyb]

Willy,

I hear what you're saying. I really like the idea of reliability and inexpensiveness of the Yamaha 2-stroke. Your '92 V20 probably has a 60gal fuel tank. What kind of range are you getting with your Yamaha? I want range and a motor I don't have to worry about being out of warranty. May be it's all about "If you want to play you gotta pay".

CaptPete,

What are your reasons for the Opti?

[reyb]

I'm not a big fan of them, but have you priced a verado?

Spares your title here is "God" so if you're not a big fan of them then I won't be either :) I believe the Verado is more expensive and heavier so I didn't consider it.

[reyb]

All 3 motors you mention are 2 strokes...

Yes you are right. I should have made the distinction between a carb 2-stroke and the DFI 2-strokes with respect to their mpg.

[captpete13]

I guess the big reason is that the Etec still carries the FICHT stigma to me. The Opti uses the tried and true 2.5L powerhead that they vastly improved on to get much more fuel economy out of. Fuel pressure is set to 90 psi and is sent to the air injector. Air pressure is set to 80 psi. Then the fuel air mixture is sent into the combustion chamber in an air bubble which supports much better atomization of fuel. Its a great system, once you understand how it works. They also use an automotive style alternator which is much easier to replace in the event of a failure.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I guess the big reason is that the Etec still carries the FICHT stigma to me. The Opti uses the tried and true 2.5L powerhead that they vastly improved on to get much more fuel economy out of. Fuel pressure is set to 90 psi and is sent to the air injector. Air pressure is set to 80 psi. Then the fuel air mixture is sent into the combustion chamber in an air bubble which supports much better atomization of fuel. Its a great system, once you understand how it works. They also use an automotive style alternator which is much easier to replace in the event of a failure.

The ETEC may still carry the FICHT stigma, but to many the OPTIMAX still carries the OPTIPOP stigma that so many of them were known for from 98-02. As for the air injection, I thought it was set to 120-130 depending upon the engine as the air pressure has to be able to overcome the compression in the cylinder to inject the fuel in. MANY of the failures on BOTH the OPTI's and FICHT/ETEC was due to the fact that DFI was a new technology and they didn't know that they needed a special oil for them. This caused alot of air pump failures in the OPTI's and carbon build-up in the FICHT's. They have gotten alot better in recent years though. Have you considered the YAMAHA 150 4 stroke? Everybody says it is a strong 150(almost 175HP) and has a proven track record. If I had the money to buy a new engine now, but new I couldn't afford a new one when the warranty runs out. 4 stroke would definately be my pick to buy. You do have timing belts and such to worry about with them, but it isn't any different then modern cars with small 4 cylinder FWD engines.

[captpete13]

The ETEC may still carry the FICHT stigma, but to many the OPTIMAX still carries the OPTIPOP stigma that so many of them were known for from 98-02. As for the air injection, I thought it was set to 120-130 depending upon the engine as the air pressure has to be able to overcome the compression in the cylinder to inject the fuel in. MANY of the failures on BOTH the OPTI's and FICHT/ETEC was due to the fact that DFI was a new technology and they didn't know that they needed a special oil for them. This caused alot of air pump failures in the OPTI's and carbon build-up in the FICHT's. They have gotten alot better in recent years though. Have you considered the YAMAHA 150 4 stroke? Everybody says it is a strong 150(almost 175HP) and has a proven track record. If I had the money to buy a new engine now, but new I couldn't afford a new one when the warranty runs out. 4 stroke would definately be my pick to buy. You do have timing belts and such to worry about with them, but it isn't any different then modern cars with small 4 cylinder FWD engines.
I've heard of slang names for just about every motor(sneezuki,yamadog,johnstone,evincrude,etc). I'm sure the Etec is a ok motor. All NJ marine police boats are powered with Etecs. I personally would not buy one because I think of it as a glorified FICHT motor. All Optimax motors run their fuel/air pressures at 90/80 psi,+ or -10psi. I'm not sure about the 250xs opti thats built by the racing division. The f150 is a good motor. I am very suprised with some of the boats I have seen those motors pushing. Timing belts on outboards far outlast the timing belt on cars. Probably because they are tucked up under the cowling not subjected to road grime and oil. I have changed perfectly good timing belts on f225's with almost 2000hours. I also changed a timing belt on a f350(not easy) with only 100 hours. Mostly because the installer of the powerhead put the cam pulley on upside down. Either way they are both easier and cleaner than doing the belt on my VW(which I have also done). I personally prefer 2 stroke over 4 stroke. Newer 2 strokes are almost as fuel efficient are lighter and have instant power.

[spareparts]

my opinion of verados has more to do with the way Brunswick operates rather than than the product itself(all though it is big and heavy). If you have a verado, your are locked into a dealer(gotta have the DTS), and it had better be a good one. There is some aftermarket companies finnaly makeing some support for them.

As far as the Yamaha 150 four stroke, it is an excellent motor, the water taxi here has over 5000 hours on theirs. The only problem with the 150 is they are bringing a premium $$$. If I were going to put a 4 stroke on my V, it would be a 150 Yamaha. BTW, the power head on that motor is a Ford Focus motor, if you ever tear one down, they have Ford logos all over the parts inside, Yamaha builds it for Ford. I have started to see corrosion issues with the oil pans and the powerhead gaskets, it ends up leaking water into the oil and trashing the motor.

[reyb]

"Have you considered the YAMAHA 150 4 stroke?"

I haven't only because it's a heavier motor than the DF140. I don't need hole shots or high top speed. If money wasn't that much of an issue, then I would get the DF140. I may still get it but my decision making gets clouded when I see 150 Optimax's and Etecs for $8500, whereas the DF140 would probably be at least a grand more.

[captpete13]

I have also seen the ford logos on the cams and some other internal components but I never heard it was a Focus motor. To my understanding the only motor that the folks at Yamaha ever admitted to making was the early Taurus SHO motor. Thats kinda like when people say the 130 Honda is a Civic motor. It's not,trust me. Just shared technology.

[spareparts]

thats what they told me at Yamaha school, I imagine the block is a different casting to accomodate the verticle arrangement, but the basic design is based on the Focus motor

[THEFERMANATOR]

It's not much different than the 140 SUZUKI. It is nothing more than an old SUZUKI SAMURI engine marinized. Learned that one from when they first came out. The local dealer had one that failed on it's first start, spun a rod bearing. SUZUKI paid for a completely new engine and had him fix the old one. When he went to order parts for it he found out that SUZUKI didn't list bearings in undersizes yet, so he went to NAPA and ordered ones for a SAMURI. Low and behold the SAMURI bearings were the same part number as the marine ones except they had an extra 3 digit code at the end of them.

[captpete13]

thats what they told me at Yamaha school, I imagine the block is a different casting to accomodate the verticle arrangement, but the basic design is based on the Focus motor
Thats cool. I went to Yamaha school too. This past January in Atlanta. They never mentioned anything like that. But then again I never asked. You learn something new every day.
Ferm I can understand what your saying but there is no way any Suzuki Samari ever even came close to making 140hp.

[bigshrimpin]

I wouldnt' mind going the Yamaha 150 2-stroke route, but I'm just concerned at the range I'll have. If this motor gets 2.5mpg(which I have no idea what real life numbers it gets), then I'll have a range of about 150 miles(60gals). The other motors are getting something like 4mpg, so that'll put the range at 240 miles. I know with my old '88 150 Black Max, I went out 30 miles, cruised around a bit looking for fish, then headed on in with just a slight detour(may be 10 miles total). Total miles was approx. 80 miles+/-. Imo, I didn't do a lot of cruising/fishing. When I got to the dock I had less than 1/4 tank left. May be the Black Max was old and tired and that's why it used a lot of fuel.

Just search for trained service dealers and here's what I found:

2 Evinrude

2 Yamaha

12 Mercury

how the heck do you get such bad fuel economy with that merc?
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/Airslot/TabTestDay009.jpg

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/showthread.php?t=7411

We went 80 miles recently in MJ's 23 seaox with a hardtop + 200lbs of cod (1985 2.4L merc 175) turning 4500 - 5000rpm (trying to keep up with his buddies 23 contender) and only burned 30 gallons.

[Genie Aye]

I will throw in my .02 here.

I have a E-Tec 200HO on my V-20--running out in the Pacific ocean--NW--I average around 3.5 MPG with a heavy load and big current and seas. I have run over 200 miles on 54 gallons. This is my second year with this motor and my review is----AWESOME running motor. I have had different brand motors over the last40 years--this is by far the best so far. Now I imagine with a 150 E-Tec you should be able to get 5mpg if you run itin the sweet spot. The new tach does have a built in flo scan for monitoring your fuel burn along with other items that are way past due on outboards--temps on everything, even the lower end and fuel pressure, water pressure,water temp, engine temp and more.

I would not want the extra weight of the 4 stroker on the back of mine (of course I could have gone smaller on the motor size). I also really like the winterization feature of the E-Tec--takes about 3 minutes to store for the winter.

[Airslot]

Hey, that's my boat. I'm running a 225 Opti (99) on a proline 231 now and love it.

The pic below is from my 87 V20 running an 88' Merc 150 2.0l Blackmax.

how the heck do you get such bad fuel economy with that merc?
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/Airslot/TabTestDay009.jpg

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/showthread.php?t=7411

We went 80 miles recently in MJ's 23 seaox with a hardtop + 200lbs of cod (1985 2.4L merc 175) turning 4500 - 5000rpm (trying to keep up with his buddies 23 contender) and only burned 30 gallons.

[randlemanboater]

I will throw in my .02 here.


I would not want the extra weight of the 4 stroker on the back of mine (of course I could have gone smaller on the motor size). I also really like the winterization feature of the E-Tec--takes about 3 minutes to store for the winter.


ETEC 200 HO dry weight 524
DF140 dry weight 421

My "winterizing" takes as long as pouring Stabil in the last tank of the season.....its worked fine so far, since 03.

Of course the ETEC will absolutly smoke my little 140, but I get 5 mpg.....its all a trade off.

I don't have to pour oil in a reservoir, but I have to change my oil.

You won't be unhappy with a DF140 though, I love mine.

[Genie Aye]

[QUOTE=randlemanboater;152554]ETEC 200 HO dry weight 524
DF140 dry weight 421


E-tec 200HO---509lbs from Evinrude.

DF 140--------421lbs pr Suzuki

For me that equals one nice halibut or 3 nice Albacore tuna(with no limit)--LOL

You do get the better fuel burn for sure--it is a give and take--as most things in life. There are alot of guides running those DF 140's up in British Columbia.

But I can open up if needed into the mid or upper 40's and still not work the motor. I do some Tuna tournaments off shore--where speed can be king sometimes. So as stated--depends on needs and wants.

[randlemanboater]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a motor like yours.....I'd be rippin up and down the ICW @ 50 mph all the time.

[Genie Aye]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a motor like yours.....I'd be rippin up and down the ICW @ 50 mph all the time.

Untill you pay the gas bill--LOL

You have to pick your races--LMAO

Like I said--the charter guys up in BC are all running them and love them Suzuki DF140's.

As long as you can get out and enjoy your V-20--heck a 75hp would work!!