Trying to be a good american........

[charlie_the_tuna]

as some of you may know i'm an avid bicyclist. i recently purchased a new mountain bike. i want to buy American but find it to be all but impossible. for a similar bike, made in America i would have paid close to $1,500. just for the frame. (mine cost $800. complete).
i hate shopping in walmart but how can you not. everything in the store is made in china but when trying to support a family and living in the highest taxed county in the United States....... what the hell can a guy do??
i can walk out of there for under two hundred and if i had to buy the same things made in the USA, i would have to visit over a dozen stores and pay 50% more.
my wife only works part time but she works for the school system so she's always there for the kids. that's priceless.
how do you guys do it? how do you make ends meet on one, or one and a half incomes? is it just that much cheaper to live everywhere else?

[THEFERMANATOR]

I know how tough it is to try and buy American and still get by, but you have to keep in mind that the more foreign goods we buy the worse things WILL get here. As we become more and more of a consumer nation, we will lose all of our money making abilities. If we make nothing and provide no national services, then money will only flow out and our economy is done for. As for getting by on little to no money, Myself and my wife live on family property and live in a guest trailer on it. It works out well for us right now as it is just the 2 of us, and the garage is right next to me so I can go out and work when I have work to do(which unfortunately isn't much anymore). My wife lost her teaching job last year and is now working as a sub as they have found that they can make subs do the work for less than half the pay and get the same job done as there is so mant teachers out of work that there is a surplus of subs out there just waiting for anything. So the wifes $85 a day before taxes is our only steady income. When things were good I made more money working out of my shop in a day tan she did in a week as a teacher, but those days have come and gone unfortuantely so now I'm chomping at the bit for whatever I can get.

As for shopping at Wal-mart, I refuse to unless it is the only store that has what I need in the time frame I need it. They have become a true monster of a business, and are working to end the American way of life at every turn they can to turn a profit. They don't care about the USA, all they care about is money. And remember the next time you spend money at Wal-mart, you just contributed to an organization that is pushing HARD for catch shares and has donated HUGE amounts of money to several anti-fishing groups as they know if catch shares get implemented they can make BILLIONS off of selling us catch shares so we can go out and catch OUR fish.

[chumbucket]

It's not a lot cheaper living here in Taxachusetts Chuck. My wife hasn't worked for about two years now. Financially, we're doing okay. She is able to draw on a couple of pensions she had built up, so that helps. We own two houses. One of which my daughter and grandson live in (with her boyfriend). They both work, but for what ever reason, we're lucky if they pay us anything for rent or taxes. It's always a battle every month with them. But we're getting by.
As for buying American, try to find a made in USA tag on most products. Unfortunately we as consumers are caught in a dilemma that we are not solely responsible for creating. Yes, Ferm is correct in stating that the more goods that we buy that are made overseas perpetuates the problem, but why were those products allowed to be farmed off to the lowest cost manufacturers to begin with. These jobs that we have lost in all industries can never be regained.
We will never see them again.
So, all you can do is try. By what you can American of course, but at the same time protect and stand for what's best for you and your family.
I wanted and bought a mid-sized truck a little over a year ago. My American choices were GM Colorado/Canyon which is the worst rated truck in it's class on the market, or a Dodge Dakota (Ford discontinued the Ranger). Not much better than the GM if you ask me. I bought a Toyota Tacoma as it's the best in it's class. The majority of the Tacoma is made here in the USA (more than can be said of the domestic trucks). I know that a lot of the Tacoma Profits don't stay here, but at least I can support American workers.
Don't get too upset over it, just do the best you can.

[willy]

I am not going to get into a political thing here but I do want to add some imput.
The reason the jobs, especially in manufacturing have gone overseas, is that the cost of doing business here in the U.S is the highest in the industrialized world, the taxes on corporations is the highest in the industrialized world and the regulatory compliance costs are the highest in the world.
So you are an international company, like almost all the major corps now, you want to open a new facility to produce the new widget your R&D has come up with. Where do you build them?
And there in a nutshell is the problem for over three decades now.
November 2012 is the last real hope we have of turning this economy around and making this the target location for the buisnessess around the world to start investing here, to start manufacturing here, to feel most stabil here.
We have the people, we have the safest nation in the world, they want to come here, but we have a society who is close to having the majority living off the largess of an out of control federal government, and they all know we also have a political elite that intend to increase those numbers dramatically in the next few years.
Mark my words, if we get a Constitutional Fiscally responsible person in the White House and a Senate that will back him or her up this country will run like wild fire, the economy will expand at unheard of rates and we will start to hammer hard at the permantly unemployed numbers in our nation. Your dollars value will start to rise and you will start to see a lot more Made in the USA stickers on your products.
And your children will have a good shot at living a decent life as a Free American. something we were all given by our parents.

[garagenc]

There are going to be states and counties that are cheaper to live in than others. The county I live in NC used to be the cheapest (tax purpose) than any other, but about 10-12 years ago Va 4 laned their part of RT 17 to NC and the boom was on for VA residents to live in NC. Created more new construction but with it also brought people into the county that had never lived in a rural area and they expected all the luxuries of the city. Street lights in their neighborhood, they wanted county water etc etc.

All this spurred the county to raise taxes to satisfy the minority (that seems to be the wave for this country, let the few rule the majority) that's another story.

Now my county is in the top 5 for the state as per $100 tax.

I hate to not buy American but when it comes down to it we buy American but as you stated about your bike; we not going to pay double or triple to buy American.

To me that's like not taking a deduction on my taxes, in today's economic times we can't be stupid in handling our money.

[charlie_the_tuna]

thanks guys. its good or bad to know that i'm not the only one in this situation. i cant believe that the wife bought a new shower cutain last week and the dam thing was made in china. i have a very hard time believing that we do not have the technology in this country to produce a simple shower curtain. are we so innept that we need to have a shower curtain produced and then shipped halfway around the world? its absolutely everything you see. china. taiwan. malaysia. sri lanka, etc.......
chum, as for the truck, when i bought the dakota i could only drool at the toyota. it was my first choice in the midsized and the last one i could afford. the wife drives the toyota minivan as i wanted her to have a car she could rely on. i dont know if its our technology or just the fact that we have become fat and lazy as a nation.
i speak to a rider who travels to asia on business and he told me about a commuter railroad in i think hong kong. he told of a railroad that is fast, efficient, clean and run with almost no human presence. fact is we probably could run our railroad with less personnel onboard but thank god we dont, as it takes us 5 people to do the job of one over there.
what a joke we have become and what a laughing stock our president has helped us to create. (i dont blame him entirely as we've been heading in this direction for a very long time) i fear this is the beginning of the end, and i fear for the future of my children.

[Destroyer]

You're all wrong, and you're all right. The problem is that we've farmed out most of our manufacturing jobs. We turned from being a manufacturing nation to being a service nation a long time ago. NAFTA was the start, and in truth, we've now hearing the giant sucking sound of jobs leaving the country that Ross Perot warned us about in his first run for the presidency.

Of course, there are also other reasons for our prediciment.. each one of them building on the back of the others. Kinda like a snowball rolling downhill. I do not pretend to know all the answers, so I'm not going to even try to preach them, but I do know that Willy pretty much nailed it when he said that the 2012 elections will determine the fate of our country more than any other election in our history. We MUST stop the dependancy of people relying on the government for their very existance.
41% of the population in this country pay no taxes. We've got to get them to start paying their fair share...and the way we do that is to provide them with the training they need and the jobs that will result so they can start earning a living. Government cannot create jobs, but it can foster an economic climate that makes it desirable to start a company. Right now, there's a climate of uncertainy. Company's are not hiring because they don't know what the future holds in the form of regulations. We've got to change that.

And as much as I agree with the Walmart wanting to make money comment, lets also not forget that over 50,000 people in this country depend on Wal-Mart for their jobs....to say nothing of the millions and millions of people that depend on them for cheap goods that they need in order to just survive. They, like any other company, are in business to make money. They have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to do so. That's why they are in business. No company is in business to lose money.

[reelapeelin]

It's not political...it's common sense immorality manifesting itself as GREED...politics was left behind MILES ago...

If you wanna catch an animal, you put out it's favorite thing to eat...and you can put it most anywhere; he'll follow the scent and find it.

If you want to catch a politician you put out the money and he/she will follow it where ever the money goes...if it goes to China, he'll follow it to China...Tiawan, he'll go there...just leave a money trail...

Our government officials on both sides of the aisle are as guilty as hell for what they have done to the manufacturing and trade practices this country once lead the world in. Why? Because they got personally rich taking money from people it benefited..like a rudder thru the water...where ever it steers 'em, there they go...it does not matter if yer talkin' left, right, conservative, liberal, blue or red...there may be a small handful of abstaining individuals, but the majority are on the take...they DO NOT CARE ABOUT US...they follow the money and only the money...and it's lead to the Tea Party taking to the streets and the Occupy movement taking to the streets...for different ideologies, but spurred by the same cause...Government GONE WRONG...our laws and regulations over the last several decades have been written by influence peddlers and enacted by the politicians those peddlers paid for. For anybody who thinks pulling a straight ticket one way or the other will even begin to fix it, that belief in itself is part of the problem...Charlie is exactly right...it's been going on far too long to point at individuals and say it's his fault or her fault or the fault of one party or the other...the problem is systemic throughout government...on a federal level, sate level and local...until we quit partisan bickering which keeps us DIVIDED and get together as one voice that says; IT STOPS NOW!...it will continue on...they do not care about us, this country, right, wrong or what's good for us...they draft legislation and pass regulation that benefits THEIR bottom line...and we take it up the chute in all the ways Charlie started this thread off with.
I've probably lost most of you by now, but Charlie's fears about our children are well founded...and partisan politics will keep our attention diverted from the REAL PROBLEM as long as we let it...

[ssiredfish]

Well I am fortunate enough to be a 3rd gen. hardware guy. It helps that I can get anything you see in a hardware store for cost. BUT, here is the problem.....

A customer comes in and says I need a sprinkler head. I tell him this one is good, this is better and this is the best. Of course the better and best are U.S. made. "So I gotta get ripped off to get a descent sprinkler head???" NO!!!! You f'n moron!!! I gotta get ripped off because you buy cheap crap and support foreign markets which naturally makes ours go up!!! I make 26pts profit on my best sprinkler head. I make close to 70pts on the crappy one but which one was I tryin to get you to buy?!?!?!?!

I guess its like the whole recycling thing, 25% do it, 75% talk about how good it is for the world......

You guys think I need a break from retail?!?!?!?!

BTW, ACE Hardware TRIES very hard to keep American made products in our stores. You may pay a little more for it than Lowes and Home Depot but you'll get an educated response on install and upkeep and unmatched service at most all stores you visit. Thanks for your support.....

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by ssiredfish

BTW, ACE Hardware TRIES very hard to keep American made products in our stores. You may pay a little more for it than Lowes and Home Depot but you'll get an educated response on install and upkeep and unmatched service at most all stores you visit. Thanks for your support.....

I buy from ACE for exactly those reasons.. Never from Home Despot and rarely from Lowes. I like it when I walk in and I see someone I know behind the counter and I'm greeted with a friendly "Hi Paul". That, in itself, is enough to keep me coming back.. Besides, I don't like the business model that Home Despot uses... they come into a neighborhood with great prices on really good merchandise.... and a few years later, after they have driven out all the local hardware stores, they raise their prices and lower the quality of the stuff they sell... So I stopped buying from them years ago. And truthfully, a lot of times the prices @ Ace are BETTER than those at Home Despot... and the merchandise is a much higher quality. I use a ton of nuts and bolts both at work and at home... the Chinese crap isn't worth the metal it's made from...and Aces prices are usually better and the quality is always better.

Reel.... Well said.. I wish I had the intellect to form thoughts like that.