Roe-Wade Woman’s right of choice

[scook]

No doubt, unwanted babies with, probably in most cases, incompetent mothers and no fathers present are a serious problem. Unmarried, teenage girls having babies is, I believe, the best predictor of poverty.

My daughter ran a nonprofit for a few years that took in, housed and worked with girls between around 14 and 24 who were pregnant or had recently given birth. She considered it a great success that no baby was born addicted to drugs on her watch, but even many of the girls she helped went back to their former lives.

It would help if the adoption process wasn’t an abusive excruciating process. Our family members probably have $80,000+ in an adoption and the first two attempts failed because the mothers kept the babies (the first one, they were in possession if the baby and the social worker came and took him back) - a lot of friends chipped in a lot of money to finally get it over the finish line. It took years, and was an emotionally draining experience - it’s amazing that any children ever get adopted.

I don’t think it can be assumed that the unwanted baby production rate would stay linear if abortions became less available. With abortions of convenience easily available, there’s not much perceived cost to getting pregnant, though the psychological professionals that I know say there are usually significant effects further along. There would probably be a fair amount of deterrent if the availability diminished. Protecting people from natural consequences encourages bad behavior, whatever the venue.

I agree that it’s a big problem, but I don’t agree that killing innocent children is a morally acceptable way to solve it. It’s difficult to imagine any creative solution with the fact that any government participation has to make it through the political process where the current majority seems to be tripping over itself to remove the consequences of nearly all bad behavior and spray free stuff on people to the point of actively discouraging them from going back to jobs. I do think creative problem solving is possible, but it’s hard to see it happening given the current political situation.

[bgreene]

Originally Posted by scook

No doubt, unwanted babies with, probably in most cases, incompetent mothers and no fathers present are a serious problem. Unmarried, teenage girls having babies is, I believe, the best predictor of poverty.

My daughter ran a nonprofit for a few years that took in, housed and worked with girls between around 14 and 24 who were pregnant or had recently given birth. She considered it a great success that no baby was born addicted to drugs on her watch, but even many of the girls she helped went back to their former lives.

It would help if the adoption process wasn’t an abusive excruciating process. Our family members probably have $80,000+ in an adoption and the first two attempts failed because the mothers kept the babies (the first one, they were in possession if the baby and the social worker came and took him back) - a lot of friends chipped in a lot of money to finally get it over the finish line. It took years, and was an emotionally draining experience - it’s amazing that any children ever get adopted.

I don’t think it can be assumed that the unwanted baby production rate would stay linear if abortions became less available. With abortions of convenience easily available, there’s not much perceived cost to getting pregnant, though the psychological professionals that I know say there are usually significant effects further along. There would probably be a fair amount of deterrent if the availability diminished. Protecting people from natural consequences encourages bad behavior, whatever the venue.

I agree that it’s a big problem, but I don’t agree that killing innocent children is a morally acceptable way to solve it. It’s difficult to imagine any creative solution with the fact that any government participation has to make it through the political process where the current majority seems to be tripping over itself to remove the consequences of nearly all bad behavior and spray free stuff on people to the point of actively discouraging them from going back to jobs. I do think creative problem solving is possible, but it’s hard to see it happening given the current political situation.

Your families efforts are to be appreciated and respected .

As for “ murder “ question remains if not more correctly “ stopping a human from forming “
when the reality is cells alone with DNA but no brain, no heart within the legal limit.

As for “no consequences “ from what I’ve read, abortion is NOT a pleasant experience NOT a procedure a woman enjoys .
We also have many laws against assorted crimes - yet crimes are committed every day - hasn’t stopped based on consequences.

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by bgreene

Your families efforts are to be appreciated and respected .

As for “ murder “ question remains if not more correctly “ stopping a human from forming “
when the reality is cells alone with DNA but no brain, no heart within the legal limit.

As for “no consequences “ from what I’ve read, abortion is NOT a pleasant experience NOT a procedure a woman enjoys .
We also have many laws against assorted crimes - yet crimes are committed every day - hasn’t stopped based on consequences.

Just throwing this out there for consideration....

What if we took some of that 1.75 Trillion infrastructure bill that is now expected to actually be between 3-5 trillion dollars and established centers where unwanted children could be brought up in a loving, if somewhat sterile environment. Like an orphanage.

The cost of raising them keeps being brought up, but I wonder how much of that is real? I'm sure some of that is valid, but I wonder how much is real and how much is hyperbole? What did we do before 1972? (Besides the illegal abortion doctors) My point is there always seems to be money for pet projects that the taxpayers have to pay for, so why not this?

[bgreene]

Originally Posted by Destroyer

Just throwing this out there for consideration....

What if we took some of that 1.75 Trillion infrastructure bill that is now expected to actually be between 3-5 trillion dollars and established centers where unwanted children could be brought up in a loving, if somewhat sterile environment. Like an orphanage.

The cost of raising them keeps being brought up, but I wonder how much of that is real? I'm sure some of that is valid, but I wonder how much is real and how much is hyperbole? What did we do before 1972? (Besides the illegal abortion doctors) My point is there always seems to be money for pet projects that the taxpayers have to pay for, so why not this?

Good luck
Question remains - since you’re against women’s right to choose - will you adopt ?
I’m guessing no so what right do you or others have to force the issue ?
Those against often all “ high and mighty “ on this issue but that’s where it ends

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by bgreene

Good luck
Question remains - since you***8217;re against women***8217;s right to choose - will you adopt ?
I***8217;m guessing no so what right do you or others have to force the issue ?
Those against often all ***8220; high and mighty ***8220; on this issue but that***8217;s where it ends

First, I'm not against women's rights. I'm for infant's rights. The two need not be mutually exclusive.

My "right" is that it's wrong not to speak out. (Read my signature at the bottom of this post) It's immoral to kill defenseless babies because they are inconvenient, and if you cannot understand that simple logic then I truly feel sorry for you. It explains a lot though. You must be empty inside.

To answer you other question, I've been blessed with 3 children, so there was and is no reason for me to adopt. But in my younger days we also had several foster kids living with us over the years.

How many kids have you adopted? Have you ever provided a loving home as a Foster Parent? Why not?

.

[bgreene]

Originally Posted by Destroyer

First, I'm not against women's rights. I'm for infant's rights. The two need not be mutually exclusive.

My "right" is that it's wrong not to speak out. (Read my signature at the bottom of this post) It's immoral to kill defenseless babies because they are inconvenient, and if you cannot understand that simple logic then I truly feel sorry for you. It explains a lot though. You must be empty inside.

To answer you other question, I've been blessed with 3 children, so there was and is no reason for me to adopt. But in my younger days we also had several foster kids living with us over the years.

How many kids have you adopted? Have you ever provided a loving home as a Foster Parent? Why not?

.

We’ve not adopted or fostered . Personal choice.
Just like being pro choice .
Infants don’t legally get aborted.

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by bgreene

We’ve not adopted or fostered . Personal choice.
Just like being pro choice .
Infants don’t legally get aborted.

Ummm... yes they do. Late term abortions, when there is a good chance of the infants survival, are legal.

It's really amazing how resilient babies are. When my third child was born he was jaundiced. and he wouldn't stabilize. After a week he was transferred to the neo-natal wing of St. Joseph's hospital in Paterson. (Seems because of the high amount of drug babies they receive they are one of the premier neo-natal hospitals on the east coast and one of the top 10 in the nation. (who knew!!). Anyway, while I was there, visiting my son in his incubator, I had the opportunity to see a tiny black doll... just a little over the size of a Barbie doll, lying on a white cloth on a platform like a baby scale under a bright light. And while I was looking at the doll, IT MOVED!!! It was a baby that was born while the mother was (I'm told) 6 months pregnant. They keep the babies under the lights to keep them warm. The entire wing was filled with tiny infants, some barely recognizable as babies... but all of them were alive. This whole notion that a baby isn't a person until it's born is just plain poppycock. It's a false narrative perpetuated by people and companies like Planned Parenthood that make a ton of money by killing babies.

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