How's that "Hope and Change" working?

[Larryrsf]

Originally Posted by spoggy

http://www2.siena.edu/pages/179.asp?item=2566

Here's a scholarly study that places Obama at 15th overall, and his predecessor dead last in presidential ranking. I'd rather stick with studies that have some basis in fact, rather than are strictly public opinion. Unfortunately, this is only current as of 2010.

Most, not all, of that list is bogus. Each can be dissected and disproved to have been helpful to this country. And of course, Obama himself didn't do any of that stuff, the POTUS has a staff of 3000 that are paid by us taxpayers. All a good POTUS has to do is NOT INTERFERE as they do their job. Obama isn't even around enough to review and sign documents in a timely manner.

BTW, like Harry Truman, GW Bush is being resurrected fast as historians review his decisions and the underlying situation at the time. Both men had "uncommon courage" to go against the tide of conventional wisdom and make the hard decisions. Many of those have turned out to be correct.

Obama was handed a Middle East in good shape. He has allowed all those gains to be wasted. 4000 lives were spend in Iraq. All Obama had to do is negotiate a "status of forces" agreement with Maliki. He couldn't do it. He wouldn't do it because the lazy bastard wouldn't spend the time.

Larry

[RWilson2526]

Just so you know Spoggy you are not alone. But after going through two presidential elections with these guys I really can't take any more.

[spareparts]

Some one spent way too much time on DU

[Destroyer]

OMG You actually believe that drivel you posted? 95% of everything there is bogus or is taking credit for things he didn't do. For example, exactly how is Foxconn's building a plant in Penn remotely connected to Pres Obama? The article doesn't even mention him... It does mention the Governor of Penn several times, as well as the chairman of Foxconn... but not a peep about Obama.

And I love the line between 33 and 34 "Brought Much-Improved Transparency and Better Government"
Ummm... his presidency has stonewalled more things than even President Nixon. Things like IRS and Benghazi just off the top of my head. At least President Nixon had the decency to resign when he was caught. And as history has shown, unlike Obama, Nixon was actually a great president in international affairs.

You need to actually READ and research the things you post, not just cut and paste and take someone else's word for it.

(some of) The operative words in those links are things like "tried", "suggested" "initiated", "oversaw" etc, etc, etc... He didn't do ANY of them himself, and most of them he didn't even know about, but just like killing Bin Laden, he and his press corps are trying to take credit for something that his predecessor actually started.

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by spoggy

Alright, I haven't attacked anyone here. I haven't accused anyone of not being able to read. I would appreciate the same consideration. I have read these, and I attributed my "cut and paste" to the appropriate source. It just so happens that the majority of what was already collected fit my purposes for this conversation.

As to Foxconn. Reading through the information that is available leads me to believe that they chose to move to the US is a direct result of President Obama's initiative to bring high-tech manufacturing to the US. I'm sorry that you don't agree with everything that has been posted, you don't have to. But, neither do I. And, I don't need to resort to denigrating you by suggesting that you actually have no real idea what you're posting. If you prefer to have that type of discussion, I suggest we take it offline.

Nowhere did I attack you, other than to suggest that you actually read what you are posting. I can bet, almost without reservation, that you did not read all of the 245 items you posted. I never said you could not read, I merely was pointing out that you probably did not read all of that mush. That was the crux of my comment. If you think that was a personal attack, then I apologize. It was not intended to be so. It was, however, a comment meant to emphasize that just cutting and pasting does no one any good, since what you post could be in error, and then you would be helping to perpetuate lies and misinformation, just like those 245 "facts".

As to any posts I make, very rarely do I not include at least 2 separate sources for any claim I make, Re: the poll that showed Obama was considered the worst president in the last 69 years. I only gave 5 examples of his law breaking, and every one of them was researched and are easily provable by even the simplest of internet searches, including Snoops. That's the difference between reading, researching and just cutting and pasting.

And let me ask you a question. If Obama is so guilt free, then why has the Congress of the United States taken up a lawsuit against him for the very law breaking that we are talking about? Partisan politics aside, no one is going to accuse ANY president of breaking the law, especially in print and in public, unless it can be proven. Can't you see that? Do you really think that Obama is above the same rules of law that we have to live by.

[RWilson2526]

Destroyer, "OMG, you actually believe that drivel you posted." Is not hard to be construed as an attack. If that was your response to me I'd take offense, sorry. I know this will probably hurt your feelings, but you can be a little bit of bully in your responses on this topic. And there is a whole bunch of you that say point blank if you voted for this guy you are an idiot or the sheeple or what have you. Again, just insulting to someone who may have voted for him period.

I think I already said this last year but actually didn't vote for him last year because I couldn't take another four years of F U C K I N G whining. Answering Ronald Reagan's question am I better off than I was 4 years ago. We'll, I am. I'm making more money, my health insurance hasn't changed, I'm not paying taxes on my health insurance premiums (remember that whole debate), the ocean hasn't been declared off limits, as far as I know not one of you have had to turn in any of your guns. I'm sorry but the sky is falling crap is making me nuts. 5 years ago we had to listen to how this is the end, come re election time we had to listen to how he was just setting us up for the real screwing.....

And finally you criticize all of the alleged accomplishments but I can sit here and research all of you posted ill doings and come up with probably a reasonable justification for a lot of it.

S h I t I need to stop coming to this political forum

[THEFERMANATOR]

Originally Posted by RWilson2526

Destroyer, "OMG, you actually believe that drivel you posted." Is not hard to be construed as an attack. If that was your response to me I'd take offense, sorry. I know this will probably hurt your feelings, but you can be a little bit of bully in your responses on this topic. And there is a whole bunch of you that say point blank if you voted for this guy you are an idiot or the sheeple or what have you. Again, just insulting to someone who may have voted for him period.

I think I already said this last year but actually didn't vote for him last year because I couldn't take another four years of F U C K I N G whining. Answering Ronald Reagan's question am I better off than I was 4 years ago. We'll, I am. I'm making more money, my health insurance hasn't changed, I'm not paying taxes on my health insurance premiums (remember that whole debate), the ocean hasn't been declared off limits, as far as I know not one of you have had to turn in any of your guns. I'm sorry but the sky is falling crap is making me nuts. 5 years ago we had to listen to how this is the end, come re election time we had to listen to how he was just setting us up for the real screwing.....

And finally you criticize all of the alleged accomplishments but I can sit here and research all of you posted ill doings and come up with probably a reasonable justification for a lot of it.

S h I t I need to stop coming to this political forum

I'm glad things are doign well for you, but not all of us are doing well. We DID lose our insurance in a sense, it got so expensive we could no longer afford and were forced onto the exchange. my wife stil lhas her insurance through work, but myself and my son just couldn't afford it any longer at over $700 a month for basic covers nothing insurance. My wifes pay is about the same, but utilities and essentials cost at least 30% more(if not more) now than they did when o took office. And if you lived down here in the Gulf states, you would believe the ocean has been closed off with all of the fishing restrictions we have endured under o. So some are still doing good, but ALOT of us are MUCh worse off now than we were 6 years ago before o took office.

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by RWilson2526

Destroyer, "OMG, you actually believe that drivel you posted." Is not hard to be construed as an attack. If that was your response to me I'd take offense, sorry.

RW, I think you missed the ? at the end of that sentence you are quoting. I did not accuse. It was not a statement. It was a question. And I fail to see how asking a question can be an attack. If I had said it as a statement I can see your point, and it would be valid I guess, but again I point out that I was asking him if he actually believed something. That's not an attack. I believe it was and is drivel, but that is my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

And there is no need to be sorry. You're my longest friend here, in fact (for anyone that doesn't know) you got me onto this site in the first place. I tip toe around your political leanings and never attack you in deference to you. Always have and always will.

But as to your comment about being better off... Well, Obama-care is just starting to kick in, so it's too early to really see how much damage it will or won't do... but everyone (even NBC) has admitted that it will cost trillions more than originally stated. Our treasury is printing money faster than a speeding bullet. 17 Trillion so far and more coming... and trust me when I say that money is going to have to be repaid... by my kids, your kids, our grandchildren and their kids... Do you realize that right now, every single person in the United States, even just born babies, owes close to $250,000 dollars to the Country? Where do you think they are going to get that money to pay back that debt? Can you say....taxes?

And look at your Utility bills from 6 years ago and now... You and I are on the same grid and we pay the same utility company, and I can tell you that mine sure have not gone down or even stayed the same.
When you pull into the gas pump, do you stop to think that gas is over twice the cost that it was when Obama took office? We become used to certain things and don't think about them, and they (politicians in general, both sides) count on it. There are so very many hidden taxes that we don't even know about... and now they are talking about wanting to tax the internet. (Current federal law bans any state from taxing internet access. But the law expires November 1st. Now the Senate Democrats and a few Republicans are threatening to let the law expire -- and the taxing begin -- if Congress does not allow states to impose sales taxes on internet purchases).

So in answer to your question, no, I am not better off than I was 4 years ago. I make much less, my Medicare was raped to help fund Obama-care, I pay more than double at the gas pumps, food costs are going through the roof, and when my wife retires in a few years we're going to get hit with hundreds, if not thousands more in health insurance costs than we would have 6 years ago.

And I have yet to see a single thing that I am better off about.

[LESTERUS]

"40. Issued an Executive Order on Presidential Records, which restored the 30-day time frame for former presidents to review records, and eliminated the right for the vice president or family members of former presidents to do the reviews. Provides the public with greater access to historic White House documents, and severely curtails the ability to use executive privilege to shield them." And yet, his personal records, grades, clients etc. are sealed FOR THE NEXT 50 YEARS.!!!!!!!!, Why ???????

[willy]

Really? Why? Because he is a liar, a crook and a died in the wool socialist.
He feels nothing for the American People, actually holds them in disdain for not embracing the obviousness of his socialist ideals.
He holds the Constitution in disdain, feels it unduly restricts his plans for the utopian dream of his fathers.
He has secretly plotted against large segments of the American People to fundamentally transform America, starting with Fast and Furious, continuing with using the IRS to target Americans who disagree with him and a dozen other things that completely explain what kind of anti American trash he is.

The sorry thing for us as Americans, this country elected him twice. Shame on us.
We have a chance tomorrow to start fixing it, hopefully our liberal friends and we all have them God Bless their hearts have the courage and foresight to help