Internet Sales Tax

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by RidgeRunner

I agree with you, govt. spending is out of control.
BUT
Sales tax on interweb sales is due to the state, not the Feds.
So the Feds have their house in order and are going forward with this groundbreaking legislation? IMHO another cluster..
Just because a sale was made via the internet should not relieve the interested parties from their sales tax. .

Well, yes and no.

What is happening here is that right now sales tax on internet sales is ONLY due if the buyer lives in the same state as the seller. This new law would make it so that someone living in a different state would still have to pay the sales tax of the sellers state.

When the internet came into being, congress passed a law that made sales tax on the internet illegal except for the way I've just outlined. But the big brick and mortar stores are now spending massive amounts of money thru their PACS trying to get Congress to change the law. The reason is simple. Increased profits through less competition. They want to force small internet start up companies out of business. By having to track, collect and pay to the states sales taxes it will put a huge amount of strain on a small mom and pop store selling out of their living room. Plus, think about it. It will FORCE people to work for FREE for the government. They don't get paid for the amount of time or effort they need to spend in order to do the paperwork to tax, collect and send the taxes in. Big brick and mortar stores could care less, they already have to do that anyway, so it's an easy way to drive out the competition. This whole campaign is being funded by the large brick and mortar stores. But the result will be the same for ALL of us. It WILL COST MORE to buy something on the internet. Cheaper prices will become a thing of the past, and THAT is why we must fight this.

[RidgeRunner]

I don't know what law Congress passed outlining the sales tax structure in your state?? You can check me but I believe the collection of Interstate taxes is prohibited by the constitution. However, most states have a Use Tax. The Use Tax is applicable for anything purchased online or otherwise from out of State where sales taxes were not collected from the purchaser at the time of purchase.
Florida Dept of Revenue does give a break for the time it takes to fill out the sales tax paperwork. (half of a percent or something) So even though it is a bit more work, the workers would be working as indentured servants, not as a slave of the govt.
As much as I hate to say it, anyone who owns and operates a business in their livingroom needs to be paying their way too, even if the money just goes to the state and not directly on the National Debt.. Isn't it enough that small mom and pop companies operating out of their living room have no overhead, liability, employees to pay, reemployment tax, workers comp, health insurance, nor do they have to deal with the complex myriad of governmental agencies crawling up their backside.
If you have ever run a brick and mortar type business legitimately, you know good and well why the brick and mortar stores are trying to get all businesses to pay their share. Something to keep the auditors busy and off your back if nothing else..
Your internet price will go up a little, but if you continue to buy it from the internet it will still be cheaper.

[RidgeRunner]

Destroyer-"By having to track, collect and pay to the states sales taxes it will put a huge amount of strain on a small mom and pop store selling out of their living room."

Intrastate commerce, (selling products in your own state) requires the collection of sales tax. Same people, same paperwork, if they aren't already paying sales tax they are breaking the law.

The sales tax is arguably the "Fairest" tax we have.

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by RidgeRunner

Destroyer-"By having to track, collect and pay to the states sales taxes it will put a huge amount of strain on a small mom and pop store selling out of their living room."

Intrastate commerce, (selling products in your own state) requires the collection of sales tax. Same people, same paperwork, if they aren't already paying sales tax they are breaking the law.

The sales tax is arguably the "Fairest" tax we have.

No, you misunderstand. This will mean that a mom and pop store will have to track, figure out and pay sales taxes to 50 different states. (or however many states actually have sales taxes) Each state is different, has their own rates and laws. Right now mom and pops only have to track and pay for their own state. So now they will be responsible for paying taxes to 50 different states, at each states rate, and if they screw up the fines and penalties could easily put them out of business. It will put a lot of them out of business anyways, simply because they won't be able to afford the extra manpower necessary to do all the paperwork required.

And while we're on the subject... Where did that statement about sales taxes being the fairest tax come from? Sorry Ridge, but I have to disagree with you on that.

What makes anyone think that the state is entitled to ANY money from the result of a sale of goods from one person to another? They did absolutely nothing to help with the sale, not a single road, police, fire dept or anything else was involved with the sale, any more than what is normally out there already and already being paid for by state taxes. Sales taxes are nothng but a scam by the states to steal even more of your money.
They are, without a doubt, the unfairest tax of them all.

[RWilson2526]

Originally Posted by Destroyer

They are, without a doubt, the unfairest tax of them all.

I dont know, I would consider it more "fair" than some of the others....I think Ridge's reasoning is along the lines you are only paying tax if you choose to purchase something and the amount you pay is directly proportional to what you choose to spend. Now obviously everyone has to buy stuff for basic survival although NJ at least has no sales tax on food and clothes so that helps.

I would have to say the least fair would be income tax. I mean just taking a straight cut out of your pay because you made it???

Most fair I think is property tax and if you consider it a tax, toll charges on roads are pretty fair as well as you can choose to take other roads if you want.

Sales tax I would put in the middle, but bottom line is they all suck.

[RidgeRunner]

Actually, I think property taxes are unfair. Each parcel of land is valued different and why should a land owner in Dade county pay more than Polk county? Why do land-owners have to pay anything more than those who own no land. Aside from this, RWilson is on track with my thinking. Sales tax is like a flat tax, very fair because it is the same for everyone. No loopholes to escape sales tax, even if the administrators are a bit Draconian. Think about it, even illegally gotten gains turns into good clean revenue when the money is spent and sales tax is collected. From drug dealers to clergymen, rich or poor sales tax has a set of blinders on. Just pay at the point of purchase and be happy. Don't like the tax, don't buy the item. You can truly pick and choose.
Not that I am for taxes either, they all suck..

As a seller I can tell you Florida has a 6% sales tax and every county adds their surtax. We have to track where every sale is being made. Yes there is paperwork involved. No it is not rocket science or onerous. We have been audited twice in the past 8 years and it was unpleasant both times. So please explain to me, why should a shoestring operation started in someone's living room get a pass on all the fun?

BTW, Florida is one of 7 states without a State Income Tax. If I had to pay the state any more tax I think I would be up in arms about it too. Just want everyone on a level playing field.

They could solve the internet sales tax issue or at least make it less complicated if they would allow the seller to collect and submit the sales taxes due based on the rate in the state they are in. Instead of basing the sales tax rate on the buyers location. Reciprocity between states would go a long way too.

I normally hunt for the "I agree with Destroyer button".
Not this time, but that is what makes this great forum even better.

[willy]

All taxes are confiscatory. Government taking from Citizens money they earned, under the threat of force.

Under a Constitutional Government, they would raise a tax to handle a local, or national need and only take what was needed to handle that need.

What we have under the current, decades now, government is confiscatory taxes of all forms, death taxes, estate taxes, sales, income, both federal and state.

The purpose is no longer to address a national need it solely to grow the size, scope and dominance of the government.

When it is divided up under the guise of different types of taxes no one even discusses the totality of the theft that is occurring.

This internet tax is just the latest scheme to remove more of the wealth from the private sector and turn it over to the government. Will that money be used to reduce your states massive deficit?
Will it be used to address a states emergency situation?
No it will be used nationally and in the states to grow the size and scope of the government.
Period.

Good men as those here have fallen into the trap of debating whether this tax or that tax is fair.
The conversation is being led and controlled by those who are delivering the Kings Tea.

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by RidgeRunner

Actually, I think property taxes are unfair. Each parcel of land is valued different and why should a land owner in Dade county pay more than Polk county? Why do land-owners have to pay anything more than those who own no land.
Well, actually, they do . Renters pay rent to a landlord, and he (the landlord) pays property taxes. So since the property tax, as well as other taxes are built into the amount of rent, they do pay property taxes, just indirectly.

Aside from this, RWilson is on track with my thinking. Sales tax is like a flat tax, very fair because it is the same for everyone. No loopholes to escape sales tax, even if the administrators are a bit Draconian. Think about it, even illegally gotten gains turns into good clean revenue when the money is spent and sales tax is collected.
But you're missing part of my point. WHY should ANY money be collected for sales tax? WTF did the government do to earn any part of the sale money? The answer is zero.. they didn't do anything and yet they steal our money on the pretense that they are owed it...

From drug dealers to clergymen, rich or poor sales tax has a set of blinders on. Just pay at the point of purchase and be happy. Don't like the tax, don't buy the item. You can truly pick and choose.
Not that I am for taxes either, they all suck..
See? Now you're getting it. ALL taxes suck, just some more than others. The tax free internet was a bastion, a place of solitude away from the blatent theft of our money. And it was made that way to help interstate commerce... but so many new start ups made a dent in sales that the big box stores started crying to their congressmen about how unfair it was... (even though those same big box stores have their own internet sales branches). They never envisioned the competition, and now they're lobbying so they can put the little guys out of business... even if it hurts you and I and the rest of us in the process.

As a seller I can tell you Florida has a 6% sales tax and every county adds their surtax. We have to track where every sale is being made. Yes there is paperwork involved. No it is not rocket science or onerous. We have been audited twice in the past 8 years and it was unpleasant both times. So please explain to me, why should a shoestring operation started in someone's living room get a pass on all the fun?
Because you get the SAME pass on every internet sale you make as long as the person is from a different state. No one gets a complete pass, because you still have to collect sales tax if the buyer is from your own state, but you all get the same pass on interstate sales. It's good for business and good for competition, and good for both the buyers and sellers.

BTW, Florida is one of 7 states without a State Income Tax. If I had to pay the state any more tax I think I would be up in arms about it too. Just want everyone on a level playing field.
OK, I'm all for that. Lets have Floridians and the other 6 states pay a state income tax also.

They could solve the internet sales tax issue or at least make it less complicated if they would allow the seller to collect and submit the sales taxes due based on the rate in the state they are in. Instead of basing the sales tax rate on the buyers location. Reciprocity between states would go a long way too.
Not really. See, the downside to that would be that buyers would avoid buying from those states that had a higher sales tax. Lets say Florida has a 6% and Ohio has a 4% sales tax. And along comes a buyer and wants a certain big ticket item.. like a car. Which state do you think he's going to buy that car in over the internet? See? It has to be geared towards the state the buyer is in, since that way no matter where he buys the car from, the tax will be the same... IE, his states tax rate.

I normally hunt for the "I agree with Destroyer button".
Not this time, but that is what makes this great forum even better.
I'll get you to hit that "I agree with Destroyer" button eventually. It just takes time to make a convincing arguement sometimes. And in all cases, you humble me by saying that and I thank you. And yes, our ability to disagree and still remain a family is what makes these forums great.

.

Originally Posted by Willy

All taxes are confiscatory. Government taking from Citizens money they earned, under the threat of force.

Under a Constitutional Government, they would raise a tax to handle a local, or national need and only take what was needed to handle that need.

What we have under the current, decades now, government is confiscatory taxes of all forms, death taxes, estate taxes, sales, income, both federal and state.

The purpose is no longer to address a national need it solely to grow the size, scope and dominance of the government.

When it is divided up under the guise of different types of taxes no one even discusses the totality of the theft that is occurring.

This internet tax is just the latest scheme to remove more of the wealth from the private sector and turn it over to the government. Will that money be used to reduce your states massive deficit?
Will it be used to address a states emergency situation?
No it will be used nationally and in the states to grow the size and scope of the government.
Period.

Good men as those here have fallen into the trap of debating whether this tax or that tax is fair.
The conversation is being led and controlled by those who are delivering the Kings Tea.

What he said. Said with the elloquence he is noted for. God I wish I could write that well. We both write with a passion for what we know is right, but I just write from the heart. Willy writes from the soul.

Originally Posted by RWilson2526

bottom line is they all suck.

I could not have said it any better.