Soldier denied service at Muslim owned service station

[jeffmo]

Originally Posted by Destroyer

You said that Romney doesn't believe they should be hired back. How do you know this? I've not seen one comment by Romney or any of his staffers concerning the hiring or firing of firefighters. Where did you hear that? Understand, I'm not arguing with you about manpower shortfalls, I'm just saying that I haven't seen any comments by Romney on that subject. (And by the way, this is a man [Romney] that is directly responsible for saving over 40,000 American jobs [union and non-union alike] and 73 American companies that would otherwise be out of business right now... including Staples and the third largest steel maker in the US.) So go tell those people that are working right now because of him that Romney is bad for business.

As for your comment about ultra-conservatives, of course there are some that are extreme in their thinking, but hardly in the same catagory or numbers as the mass of people that think that Obama is actually doing good. I'll stand by my original comment.

Well,it wasn't just firefighters.it was also teachers and police officers.What the President wanted to do was to use some federal money to re-hire people in those professions who had been laid off due to the economy.Romney doesn't think it should happen.Neither Obama or Romney can hire or fire anyone in those professions but,federal money could be used to re-hire and get staffing back up to safe levels.I witnessed first hand what the current mindset of the republican party is when it comes to middle class public sector workers.I think that they are simply trying to push the ALEC agenda and the result would be that MANY middle class workers would see their pay and benefits cut while they simply would get richer.I don't mind people becoming rich through hard work but when they want to do it by hurting the quality of life of other people then I say that it's wrong.


I thought I'd list a few sources on Romneys statement so credibility wouldn't be an issue.

And I'll stand by my position also!
I think i should say that I'm a life long democrat who has a middle of the road outlook on most issues and politics.Like I've said before,the ultra righties and ultra-lefties are the ones ruining this nation.there's no compromise in either party and very little gets done because of it.
In the last election McCain was going to get my vote until he announced his choice of running mate.He recently spoke out about Michelle Bachmann and her attitude.HE is the exact type of politician we need many more of in this country.
I certainly don't agree wit every decision Obama has made but I think that He will try to look out for the average person far better than Romney ever would.

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by jeffmo

I thought I'd list a few sources on Romneys statement so credibility wouldn't be an issue. I await your sources

And I'll stand by my position also! No one said you shouldn't...just keep an open mind to what BOTH sides are saying and doing.

I think i should say that I'm a life long democrat (it shows)who has a middle of the road outlook on most issues and politics.Like I've said before,the ultra righties and ultra-lefties are the ones ruining this nation.there's no compromise in either party and very little gets done because of it. Oh, you mean like the Dems in the senate who haven't brought up a budget for a vote in over 3 YEARS?
In the last election McCain was going to get my vote until he announced his choice of running mate. She was the best part of his inept, tepid "campaign" He recently spoke out about Michelle Bachmann and her attitude. And she recently spoke out about his comments and his lack of an attitude. HE is the exact type of politician we need many more of in this country. OMG... I certainly do NOT agree with that statement.. he's an utter disaster, He's so wishy-washy it's an embarasement. I can't wait for him to be voted out of office.
I certainly don't agree with every decision Obama has made but I think that He will try to look out for the average person far better than Romney ever would. Depends on what you mean by "look out for".. If by "look out for" you mean rule or dictate over, then yes, I agree that Obama will "look out for" the average person much more than Romney will. If, on the other hand, by "look out for" you mean put people back to work, help them stand on their own two feet with less government and help them succeed in their lives, then I think your only choice is Romney.

.

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by jeffmo

What the President wanted to do was to use some federal money to re-hire people in those professions who had been laid off due to the economy. Romney doesn't think it should happen. Neither Obama or Romney can hire or fire anyone in those professions but,federal money could be used to re-hire and get staffing back up to safe levels. And now you have to ask yourself... WHY were those jobs let go in the first place? I'm guessing from your comments that money was the main issue... so what happens when the Federal Money that Obama wanted to use runs out? Do the people that were rehired simply get fired again? Or do you think that we (the taxpayers) should pay for them in perpetuity? Maybe if the people that hired them in the first place had kept the budgets tight none of this would have happened. OVERSPENDING is what got them fired, and NOTHING, other than fiscal restraint will get them back. I think that they are simply trying to push the ALEC agenda and the result would be that MANY middle class workers would see their pay and benefits cut while they simply would get richer. Who are the "they" people that you mentioned just now? I don't mind people becoming rich through hard work Good, because that's exactly what Romney did....Glad we agree. but when they want to do it by hurting the quality of life of other people then I say that it's wrong. And I agree with you completely. Protecting 40,000 American jobs and 73 American companies is certainly helping the quality of life for those people...wouldn't you agree?

.

[jeffmo]

sorry,had to take off for a while!


Romney said of Obama, ***8220;he wants another stimulus, he wants to hire more government workers. He says we need more firemen, more policemen, more teachers. Did he not get the message of Wisconsin? The American people did. It***8217;s time for us to cut back on government and help the American people.***8221;
The intent was to re-hire some that had been laid off.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...more-teachers/

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/...d-no-teachers/

http://open.salon.com/blog/a_patriot...n_and_teachers

http://www.businessinsider.com/barac...olice-teachers

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...aign-wont-say/

[jeffmo]

the safety forces positions were lost when the economy went south.it wasn't because of poor planning.IF that were the case then we should NEVER add to safety forces because no one will ever have the ability to tell when we are going to have bad times.Over the last 10 years run volumnes have steadily increased but staffing has been reduced.MOST departments i'm aware of now bill for EMS services which means that they are doing more with less.Exactly how much more would you say we should concede to where it comes to our safety?

MAYBE,if we simply eliminated wasteful spending at ALL levels of gov't we wouldn't have had to see safety forces reduced to unsafe levels.
Now,blame it on whoever you'd like to but when jobs left our country for foreign soil THAT'S when our troubles began.I don't care who would have ended up in the whitehouse,turning and economy around that took years to go bad would be like stopping a train on a dime....it'll never happen.
So what's so bad about being a democrat w/ middle of the road views that you feel the need to say "it shows"??

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by jeffmo

So what's so bad about being a democrat w/ middle of the road views that you feel the need to say "it shows"??

At one time, there was absolutely nothing wrong with is. Back in the days or President Kennedy, or President Reagan, being a democrat meant something entirely different than what being a democrat means today. Today, the democratic party has been totally usurped by ultra left wingers that want nothing less than the complete overthrow of the United States and it's fundemental transformation into a Socialist Country, much like the European model that is failing so totally in Europe right now.

(It's funny to see how many Democratic Governors are saying they are not going to the Democratic convention and are saying so publically. They are all scared to death of being associated with the Obamanation)

[jeffmo]

Originally Posted by Destroyer

At one time, there was absolutely nothing wrong with is. Back in the days or President Kennedy, or President Reagan, being a democrat meant something entirely different than what being a democrat means today. Today, the democratic party has been totally usurped by ultra left wingers that want nothing less than the complete overthrow of the United States and it's fundemental transformation into a Socialist Country, much like the European model that is failing so totally in Europe right now.

(It's funny to see how many Democratic Governors are saying they are not going to the Democratic convention and are saying so publically. They are all scared to death of being associated with the Obamanation)

Sorry,but I just don't agree w/ that.
The same can be said about the thought process of the Ultra right wingers.Not every Governor agrees with the anti public sector worker bills that have been introduced in different states.Again,simply what I see as the problem,there's not nearly enough middle of the road politics.Too many who want things THEIR way or it's wrong.....supposedly.
I see it from alot of Democrats too so don't think I'm talking just about Republicans.I know people who blindly blame every problem in this country on the Republicans and it amazes me!
IF the elected people in this nation from the local levels to DC don't change and change soon,we're in for some trouble.

[willy]

The problem Jeff, as I see it in this discussion is you are referring to "ultra right wingers". As if the people who are trying to get our nation, our towns and cities back on a common sense fiscal track are ultra right wingers.
I'm sorry, but that is mass media double speak, just as referring and demagoging the average American taxpaying citizen in the Tea Party as "ultra right wingers"
These are offensive terms to me, ultra right wingers are the people known as Facist's Nazi's etc. It is a term the Pelosi's and NYT and the Chicago Tribune used to describe these Americans and they should be ashamed of their actions. Despicable.
So lets get a few things out in the open here. From one Public Sector Union member to another.
When you are paid more, pensioned more, benefited more than the people who are paying the freight for it and it eventually catches up to you there is no room to say that some politician who seeks to reduce the budget and literally State destroying debt it has caused is an ultra right winger.
None whatsoever.
When you have some of the highest taxes in the world on people, and the top ten percent of the earners in this country are paying literally over seventy percent of the freight of this country you have literally no room whatsoever in saying it is not enough, it is unfair, etc.
If you have a politician who will balance the budget, restrict the overbearing nation destroying, people enslaving centralized government and allow Americans to again live free you darn sure better vote for him. If not for yourself, for your brother and sister citizens and for your children.
Because the alternative planned by this monster in office will take this country of ours down the crapper to socialism in a heartbeat.
The unholy alliance between the politicians and the unions in this country, specifically the demo/socialist party has put our nation, our states exactly where you are today. Knowing full well that it was unsustainable. Knowing full well that eventually it would all come tumbling down. But as long as they got theirs it was OK.
I know this to be true and I watched it for thirty years in a public sector union here in NJ. First hand, no ultra right wing nazi point of view just common sense.
It has come to full view do to the big down turn in our economy, where now the people who are paying the freight are suffering huge, and the reality of what that unholy alliance has wrought is in the lime light.
Major changes are being foisted upon all of us, yes the unions public and private are going to take a big shot, how things were done are going to change tremendously.
Many people on the left side of the equation in this country, just as in socialist countries around the world are in big trouble because as Thatcher brilliantly said many years ago, "the problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples money".
Voting for Romney is the only course we have to turn this economy around. You sound like a smart well spoken fellow, and I have no doubt you are, but you need to step back and look at the whole enchilada here. Four more years of an un-constrained socialist in the Whitehouse spell doom for us all. No doubt about it. Can you imagine the results of four more years of what we just had the past three and a half.
Is Romney perfect? H@ll no. Are their better men and women out there? H@ll yea. Did they have the wherewithal to commit to what has to be the greatest challenge in politics, knowing full well that what they will step into in 2013 will be a nation in decline? H@ll no.
Let me ask a simple question of all of us. You have a choice to have either the Obamination or Romney to run your personal finances, make the decisions for your household, plan your retirement and investments.
Who would you choose.
Exactly.
For 300 million Americans now. Who wold you choose to turn this nightmare we are in around.
Exactly.
You see many on the Left paint a picture of a zero sum game and play this off on us Americans.
The U.S economy is not a zero sum game. We just are not growing our economy due to the policies of division and massive government control and regulation.
The economy will grow, the pie we are dividing will grow if we let our free markets be free. Maybe many of the middle class jobs you refer to will be saved, not by stealing more money from fellow Americans but by the pie expanding and people getting back to work.
Think hard when you pull that lever Jeff, being a free man is a terrible thing to give up.

[jeffmo]

Originally Posted by willy

The problem Jeff, as I see it in this discussion is you are referring to "ultra right wingers". As if the people who are trying to get our nation, our towns and cities back on a common sense fiscal track are ultra right wingers.
I'm sorry, but that is mass media double speak, just as referring and demagoging the average American taxpaying citizen in the Tea Party as "ultra right wingers"
These are offensive terms to me, ultra right wingers are the people known as Facist's Nazi's etc. It is a term the Pelosi's and NYT and the Chicago Tribune used to describe these Americans and they should be ashamed of their actions. Despicable.
So lets get a few things out in the open here. From one Public Sector Union member to another.
When you are paid more, pensioned more, benefited more than the people who are paying the freight for it and it eventually catches up to you there is no room to say that some politician who seeks to reduce the budget and literally State destroying debt it has caused is an ultra right winger.
None whatsoever.
When you have some of the highest taxes in the world on people, and the top ten percent of the earners in this country are paying literally over seventy percent of the freight of this country you have literally no room whatsoever in saying it is not enough, it is unfair, etc.
If you have a politician who will balance the budget, restrict the overbearing nation destroying, people enslaving centralized government and allow Americans to again live free you darn sure better vote for him. If not for yourself, for your brother and sister citizens and for your children.
Because the alternative planned by this monster in office will take this country of ours down the crapper to socialism in a heartbeat.
The unholy alliance between the politicians and the unions in this country, specifically the demo/socialist party has put our nation, our states exactly where you are today. Knowing full well that it was unsustainable. Knowing full well that eventually it would all come tumbling down. But as long as they got theirs it was OK.
I know this to be true and I watched it for thirty years in a public sector union here in NJ. First hand, no ultra right wing nazi point of view just common sense.
It has come to full view do to the big down turn in our economy, where now the people who are paying the freight are suffering huge, and the reality of what that unholy alliance has wrought is in the lime light.
Major changes are being foisted upon all of us, yes the unions public and private are going to take a big shot, how things were done are going to change tremendously.
Many people on the left side of the equation in this country, just as in socialist countries around the world are in big trouble because as Thatcher brilliantly said many years ago, "the problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples money".
Voting for Romney is the only course we have to turn this economy around. You sound like a smart well spoken fellow, and I have no doubt you are, but you need to step back and look at the whole enchilada here. Four more years of an un-constrained socialist in the Whitehouse spell doom for us all. No doubt about it. Can you imagine the results of four more years of what we just had the past three and a half.
Is Romney perfect? H@ll no. Are their better men and women out there? H@ll yea. Did they have the wherewithal to commit to what has to be the greatest challenge in politics, knowing full well that what they will step into in 2013 will be a nation in decline? H@ll no.
Let me ask a simple question of all of us. You have a choice to have either the Obamination or Romney to run your personal finances, make the decisions for your household, plan your retirement and investments.
Who would you choose.
Exactly.
For 300 million Americans now. Who wold you choose to turn this nightmare we are in around.
Exactly.
You see many on the Left paint a picture of a zero sum game and play this off on us Americans.
The U.S economy is not a zero sum game. We just are not growing our economy due to the policies of division and massive government control and regulation.
The economy will grow, the pie we are dividing will grow if we let our free markets be free. Maybe many of the middle class jobs you refer to will be saved, not by stealing more money from fellow Americans but by the pie expanding and people getting back to work.
Think hard when you pull that lever Jeff, being a free man is a terrible thing to give up.

And exactly in what context does ultra left winger translate to? I did notice that term didn't seem to bring out the same types of disgust.
But,YOUR interpretation of the term left winger(and right winger) and mine apparently do not mean the same thing.I do believe also that I have said that the ULTRA attitudes on both sides are the cause of the problems we're facing.The politicians are simply looking out for themselves and have forgotten about the people of this country.
Now,you say that I am being paid more,benefitting more and pensioned more than people who are "paying the freight for it".well,that just isn't so.here in Ohio Kasich TRIED to further his ALEC bosses agenda and TRIED to make public sector workers out to be the bad guys and the cause of any "supposed" financial problems we were experiencing.The truth was brought to the surface (i've always enjoyed how the truth comes out in the end!) and it was proven that their claims of the public sector salaries being 41% higher than those in the private sector were nothing more than lies.They never continued to argue the facts about it because they couldn't.
I really think that it's important to tell you that here in Ohio,The OAPFF submitted the necessary changes for our pension system to maintain the 30 year solvency stipulation as required by law,to the legislators so the needed changes could be made.The proposals were purposely tabled by the Republicans simply as a means to be able to say that our system was broken so their fight FOR SB5 would be stronger.Again though,their lies came to surface and end the end they loked very untrustworthy.
I think I should also add something that so many people seem to omit when they're speaking about public sector workers.we are taxpayers too! And you'd have to look for a pretty long time to find someone who hates seeing wasted tax dollars more than I do.Just curious but do you see the ALEC,big business/politician alliance with the same unholiness limelight? In my 22 years in the IAFF and more to the point,on the local level,we have never endorsed a candidate.It simply isn't good practice to do that.we believe that whoever wins we will have to work with them and to endorse one could very easily makes working conditions pretty bad if one were to hold a grudge.But take a look at what the IAFF lobbies for and I believe you'll find that our concerns deal with safety issues.But,just to give you an example of how the argument went here in Ohio we heard that the unions put THEIR GUY into office and then we get to sit across the table during negotiations and get "whatever we want" at the expense of the taxpayers(again,which we are also).The same people said that the public sector workers accounted for just 12% of the total workforce here in Ohio.Now,IF their argument held water HOW could 12% of the workforce get "THEIR GUY" voted into office.the truth is that it just doesn't work that way.
For no more than political reasons they tried to paint us as the bad guys and the public just didn't believe what they were saying.when election day rolled around 63% of the voters said NO to the governors anti public sector workers bill proposal.Just recently our Governor announced that the states "rainy day" fund was about $450 million and that when he took office there was $.87 in it.when the truth of the matter surfaced it was found that he had simply transferred the profits from our lottery into HIS rainy day fund.The lottery profits had,since the lottery began,been earmarked for our schools.This happens AFTER he slashed funding to local municipalities.How's that for honest politics? Thsi guy is 100% for forwarding the ALEC agenda!
And anyone who believes that the fires ervice hasn't taken hits during these tough economic times just doesn't know the truth of the matter.Our staffing level is lower today than it was in 1990 and back then we did fire and rescue duties,today we have added EMS services and the run volumnes has increased each and every year due to our aging society.
Personally,I can't imagine more of the politics that have got us to this point.we had many years of a couple of wars(not saying that we shouldn't have went into Iraq either) but,everyone knows that wars not only cost lives,they cost obscene amounts of money.I also understand that expecting this economy to turn around in a couple short years is nothing more than wishful thinking.
Is Obama perfect? in no way! I didn't agree w/ obamacare as a whole.I do believe that we need some sort of system to make healthcare available to people who need it.Like I told destroyer,Had McCain chose a legitimate vp candidate he would have gotten my vote.

What'll it take to turn things around?that's simple,bring back the jobs that went to foreign countries and demand that politicians look out for OUR citizens and THEN we'll see good times again.