A post from another site

[willy]

That type of conservative organization, just like the Tea Party is in the sights of the public sector unions and the vilifying of both as right wingers is the problem American Citizens are having.
Just as the speaking the truth has become hate speech in the eyes of the left in this country so has anything which promotes responsibility in how the government does business is right wing.
No one is putting the blame soley on union workers, nor on the bought and paid for politicians. It is on both groups not acting responsibly or ethically.
And now the discussion is turning to what have we wrought.
We have pensions and health liabilities we cannot pay period, NJ alone is 40 BILLION DOLLARS in the red in their mishandling and mis managing the public sector pension fund.
The private sector saw this coming two decades ago and switched their employees to private held 401k type plans, and the medical benefits are being payed by various amounts of contributions from the members along with the companies.
They are sharing the pain.
We must change the future benefits packages for the public sector unions, everyone who looks at the numbers knows this.
But God forbid an honest politician tries to get it done.
Vilified and targeted by multi million dollar national campaigns to destroy them.
This is the left demo/progressive/socialist party in America and the big unions especially are their main supporters.
Fire fighters, teachers, sanitation workers, police, EMS etc. etc. are going to have to make serious changes for all new hires.
It is coming, there is no choice, it must be done for the survival of all the states and our country.

[jeffmo]

Here in Ohio our Governor said that passing SB5 was a must to balance his budget.It was defeated soundly and he still balanced his budget.It's been very dirty politics here and it doesn't look like it's going to get clean any time soon!
You'll get no argument out of me that the pension system that I'm a part of needed changes.But,as I have said,those changes were submitted and were sat on for political reasons.They were made recently.added service years,increased employee contributions are a couple of the major changes that have been made.
Just out of curiosity,what exactly happend to so many 401ks after wall street got their hands on that money? It's the same thing that happened to the $480 million of Ohio Police & Fire pension monies and it happened a week or so ago when we witnessed another mega bank that made "bad choices".CALpers(the California Public employees retirement system) had about $600 million with that bank.I wonder if the money will be returned or if it will be "lost"!
Overall,I blame Politicians,the money that they waste and greed within big business for the situation we're now in.

[willy]

We'll have to agree to disagree my friend, good luck to you and yours out in Ohio. Make it out safe!

[awthacker]

Originally Posted by jeffmo

Here in Ohio our Governor said that passing SB5 was a must to balance his budget.It was defeated soundly and he still balanced his budget.It's been very dirty politics here and it doesn't look like it's going to get clean any time soon!
You'll get no argument out ofme that the pension system that I'm a part of needed changes.But,as I have said,those changes were submitted and were sat on for political reasons.They were made recently.added service years,increased employee contributions are a couple of the major changes that have been made.
Just out of curiosity,what exactly happend to so many 401ks after wall street got their hands on that money? It's the same thing that happened to the $480 million of Ohio Police & Fire pension monies and it happened a week or so ago when we witnessed another mega bank that made "bad choices".CALpers(the California Public employees retirement system) had about $600 million with that bank.I wonder if the money will be returned or if it will be "lost"!
Overall,I blame Politicians,the money that they waste and greed within big business for the situation we're now in.

401k's, just like your pension, took a beating. I'm not sure how acknowledging that proves anything. What I love about my 401k is that I decide where to invest. Currently, I'm 100% in a gold/special minerals fund. I lost 10% last week. My own gamble, and I think it will turn out well. Would you suggest that I never should have been allowed to invest my savings (for my own protection, of course)?

[jeffmo]

Originally Posted by awthacker

401k's, just like your pension, took a beating. I'm not sure how acknowledging that proves anything. What I love about my 401k is that I decide where to invest. Currently, I'm 100% in a gold/special minerals fund. I lost 10% last week. My own gamble, and I think it will turn out well. Would you suggest that I never should have been allowed to invest my savings (for my own protection, of course)?

Absolutely not.I'd never try t tell someone what they should do with their money.
My point in saying that the 401ks took a beating was to prove that pension systems took a hit just as the 401ks did.For some reason,some folks actually beleived that they(pensions) had remained untouched.Everyone got took in my opinion.

[spareparts]

I guess now i know why half of Ohio has moved to Charleston

[Destroyer]

In my old job with the power and light co, I had a 401K there. When the dot coms crashed, I got killed just like everyone else. (I lost about $20K) . I put the rest in a capital preservation fund. (Short term, very secure investments) that has returned me 2 1/2% interest per quarter for the last 15 years. I could have gambled on other investments, but because of my age I wanted somethng secure. Fact is, because of the economy, in the long term I've out performed all the other funds, even with the recession that's ongoing. I just used some of that money as a partial down payment on my new home. To me it was very similar to having the money in a bank savings account with a guranteeed rate of return. My present job I have a Roth 401K so all that money will be mine when it's withdrawn, not mine and the governments like a traditional 401K. I love the idea of 401ks, because of their versitility.
Just like AWTHACKER, they allow me to do whats best for me, in my situation, under my control. I get to choose where my money goes.

[awthacker]

Originally Posted by jeffmo

Absolutely not.I'd never try t tell someone what they should do with their money.
My point in saying that the 401ks took a beating was to prove that pension systems took a hit just as the 401ks did.For some reason,some folks actually beleived that they(pensions) had remained untouched.Everyone got took in my opinion.

Nobody got took, though. People's investments went south. Blame whoever you want... the brokers, the banks, how about the folks who handed y'alls money over to them, how about you guys for putting those guys in charge of your pension. The problem is that nobody saw it coming. Now that the pension money is cut in half... where's the money for all the long-term benefits packages gonna come from? My understanding is that I should pay more tax to make up for it, even though nobody's gonna step up and replenish my 401K. Now I'm making high-risk investments to get my retirement plan back on track. I'm just as bummed as you are, but I take responsibility for not paying attention when the market crashed.

[jeffmo]

Originally Posted by awthacker

Nobody got took, though. People's investments went south. Blame whoever you want... the brokers, the banks, how about the folks who handed y'alls money over to them, how about you guys for putting those guys in charge of your pension. The problem is that nobody saw it coming. Now that the pension money is cut in half... where's the money for all the long-term benefits packages gonna come from? My understanding is that I should pay more tax to make up for it, even though nobody's gonna step up and replenish my 401K. Now I'm making high-risk investments to get my retirement plan back on track. I'm just as bummed as you are, but I take responsibility for not paying attention when the market crashed.

well,you're correct,to a point.the people with the pension fund who agreed to invest made their decision.but,their decisions were also made on some supposed built up claims.either way,it is a gamble and we lost.I doubt that many people outside of Ohio know this but,Our current Governor was the one who lobbies the Police & fire pension to invest the now lost $480 million.
In Ohio no one is asking anyone except for the pension members to make up the losses.the changes include more years of service,added contributions costs,etc. No proposed tax increases have been taken to the public.

[RidgeRunner]

Wage freeze in the private sector here since 2006. Salary is less than a starting teacher here in FL and there are few benefits. It would be impossible to make it without a second income. So I can't listen to too much complaining from public sector employees. You don't have to look far to find someone else worse off so we are grateful to have a job and keep plugging.

IMO the best thing about 401k is the match, second best is allowing the contributions to be invested however you want.LOL... No investment tool is as nice as the company matching your contribution.
My Putnum IRA was such a POS. It lost big during Clinton (.com bubble), Bush (thanks to 9/11) then later with Bush and Obama, finally bailed out paying the penalty with less than I started with.(and that was before the penalty) We have all been duped..
How can you get ahead when inflation is in double digits (I know it isn't advertised as such but it is and it compounds) and your safe money is only earning you 1 or 2 percent?? Meanwhile the FED keeps printing the stuff so they can reduce the burden on paying back China.. One thing the volatility in the markets has taught me, it is all smoke and mirrors. Being told the market will come back while govt. spending is out of control just ain't cutting it. I tightened my belt, the best leaders are the ones that lead by example.. Without the Tea Party rolling back spending, who else is gonna do it?

Three boxes for Democracy - Soap, Ballot, Ammo.