subaru or volvo??

[THEFERMANATOR]

Originally Posted by Destroyer

Spare and Ferm... I respect both of you for your vast mechanical knowledge, but this is one time I'm gonna disagree. You have to understand that I've been a proponent of BUY AMERICAN for most of my adult life... I would never own foreign born iron...

But in 2002 My wife bought a brand new Dodge Intrepid, with a 2.7 V6 engine in it..Great car, plenty of power, etc etc etc. It was great right up until, with less than 65,000 miles on it, the engine blew up. The dealership would not repair it under any sort of warentee, but would be happy to put in a rebuilt 2.7 for just over $4,800. I did a little searching and found out that this engine, which was the first ever 100% computer designed engine, had a long history of baking the oil because it ran so hot...and it had tiny oil galleys...so the oil galleys sludged up and got smaller and smaller until it ran out of oil. Oh, and they put the water pump inside the engine behind the timing chain.. so if that broke (and a lot did around 40,000 miles) all the water would mix in with your oil in the pan and again no lube and the engine blows. Chrysler denied ANY responsibility to everyone that complained (Do an internet search and see how many thousands of complaints there are) I took a financial bath with that hunk of garbage. It was right about then that I decided to buy an Accord for my wife, based on the opinions of various people that I talked to that had them. Best purchase decision I every made in my life regarding a vehicle.

So you can tell me that American made is just as good... and I'll agree since most of the Hondas and Toyotas and Subarus that we buy are, indeed, made right here in America... but American made does not necessarly have the same corporate mindset as foreign made... They care about their reputation. There's a reason that Ford, GM and Chrysler almost went bankrupt. The reason is that they were turning out ****ty cards, people saw it and started buying better quality from overseas makers. You want me to start buying American owned company vehicles again?? Let them change how they think and let them start making great cars again and I will. But till that time I'll stick with my Honda.

Not to sound cynical or anything, but your going to base your opinion of all domestics off of one bad apple? It would probably shock you to know that the POS engine(yes the 2.7L was a POS from the get go as I worked for DODGE when it came out and the techs all pointed out the faults from the get go and CHRYSLER did nothing) you quote was built and designed in a paretnership with MERCEDES BENZ? If you think back MERCEDES and CHRYSLER joined forces in 95, and in 96 the POWERTECH series engines started to come out. The 2.7L was one of them along with the redesigned 4.0L JEEP, and the 4.7L DODGE engine(used in the JEEP first). And not all 2.7L engines died, the majority of failures with them were due to extended oil change intervals plugging the oil galleys(that engine NEEDED the oil changed every 3K miles). I've seen them run well over 100K miles, and still look brand new inside. In the 70's the imports were far and away better than the domestic made cars, I will agree with this. But by the early 90's the domestic cars had become every bit as good if not better than many imports. Yes there are bad apples with any manufacturers as I could go on and on pointing out bad apples in ALL of them. Push comes to shove though as a whole, the domestic made cars are every bit as good now as any import.

[charlie_the_tuna]

hey ferm, maybe the newer americans can compete with the newer "imports" but i'm looking 10 or so years old. in my opinion the older (10-15 years) jap cars cant be beat. i just got rid of a 94 camry with over 175k and the motor and tranny were like brand new. i'm sorry i got rid of it but the boss wanted it gone. as far as i'm concerned you simply cant beat a 10 or 15 year old toyota. spare, i'm looking for something dependable for the wife to drive and something we can use for road trips. i'll be looking to replace my dakota soon at which point i'll probably look for a tahoe or yukon or suburban but for her i need something with good mileage especially since our regular just went over $4.05 per gallon. i'm as patriotic as the next guy and try to support american products and businesses when i can but i refuse to buy an inferior product to prove a point. if the days of the $50. dollar cars were still here i would run right out and buy a 78 caprice for $250. but if i can get a camry for the same price i'm going toyota all day long.

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by THEFERMANATOR

Not to sound cynical or anything, but your going to base your opinion of all domestics off of one bad apple? It would probably shock you to know that the POS engine(yes the 2.7L was a POS from the get go as I worked for DODGE when it came out and the techs all pointed out the faults from the get go and CHRYSLER did nothing) you quote was built and designed in a paretnership with MERCEDES BENZ? If you think back MERCEDES and CHRYSLER joined forces in 95, and in 96 the POWERTECH series engines started to come out. The 2.7L was one of them along with the redesigned 4.0L JEEP, and the 4.7L DODGE engine(used in the JEEP first). And not all 2.7L engines died, the majority of failures with them were due to extended oil change intervals plugging the oil galleys(that engine NEEDED the oil changed every 3K miles). I've seen them run well over 100K miles, and still look brand new inside. In the 70's the imports were far and away better than the domestic made cars, I will agree with this. But by the early 90's the domestic cars had become every bit as good if not better than many imports. Yes there are bad apples with any manufacturers as I could go on and on pointing out bad apples in ALL of them. Push comes to shove though as a whole, the domestic made cars are every bit as good now as any import.

Well, I'm 67, I've been driving since 1961. That's over 50 years of driving. Up to the Honda all I"ve ever owned is American vehicles. I've paid my dues. So no, I'm not basing my opinion on only one vehicle.. There have been several along the line.. My fathers 84? Buick that ate head gaskets every 6 months. My friends Ford mustang with a 5.0 engine that loved rear ends. My 92 Dodge Dynasty with a great (3.3L) engine married to a tranny that would only go about 70,000 miles before needing to be rebuilt, my sons Chevy Baretta that blew clutches on a regular basis.... the list is endless... and I still refused to buy foreign born during all of that... Right up until my wifes Intrepid with the 2.7. The rest is history. I found out that what millions of people were saying about the Honda Accord was 100% correct. It's simply a great car.

And yes, I know all about Chrysler being owned by Daimler/Benz. As a matter of fact, that was one of my reasons for going with the Honda. I figured that since most auto companys were international anyways, it really didn't matter that much what brand I bought. I know that technically if a car maker has a foreign headquarters then some money leaves our shores..and that gives me pause to think, but we still have the Honda and she (my wife) still loves it. And I'd like to point out that my 98 Jeep Cherokee with it's inline 4.0L engine is still in my possession, (Which was an engine originally designed by AMC btw) It's run almost daily and I still get an honest 20 mpg highway. In my opinion it's one of the two greatest 6 cyl engines ever built, the other being the Chrysler 225 ci slant 6. I haven't eschewed American iron totally, but I have had to rethink my opinions about buying it exclusively.

[randlemanboater]

Back to your original question CTT...my Mom and Uncle have both had real good luck with Subarus and real bad luck with Volvos.

Of course the Ford Volvos may be better.