Auto Info

[Skools Out]

Did you realize Big Three's gas guzzlers include the 33 mpg Malibuthat
beats the Accord. And for '09 Ford introduces the Hybrid Fusion whose 39
mpg is the best midsize, beating the Camry Hybrid. Ford's Focus beats the
Corolla and Chevy's Cobalt beats the Civic.

um no the Malibu does not get 33 mpg my neighbor just bought one it's lucky to get 24 hwy mpg he said. he said his 08 Corvette Z06 gets better on the hwy

[willy]

there is some valid points made, I am sure many of the facts quoted have been skewed to make the point.
My biggest issue with the chapter 11 will be the lack of leadership concerning those 1 million retirees. No one wants those people to be put in harms way. To be honest they could do the managed chapter 11 maintaining there contractual benefits but there has to be a leader with balls to stand up for it and not for the corporate shareholders.
The issue concerning quality has not been one of initial quality which they are proud of publishing in all their marketing, it is of quality down the road, after you put 80,000 on your car and have to start repairing major components that never seem to be covered by the warranty. That is the arena in which detroit has not been competitive and still are not.
The simple fact was explained very succinctly by the buisness and finance leaders in the industry, the buisness model currently being used by chrysler and gm especially will never be competitive. In fact what they want from the current congress is a stop gap temporary loan to see them into 2009 when the new congress and president is in office so they can get a huge payout from the government. Every single investment expert including those in detroit say that it is just an initial hold over stopgap loan. That many times that would be needed and the likelihood of a payback very slim.
I did not want to bail out wall street because we do not have the money to do it, we still don't. And after the initial 700 billion is almost gone the market still is no where near being stable and they in fact expect they will need up to an additional 750 to one trillion from the taxpayers in 2009.
THIS IS MONEY WE DO NOT HAVE, WE ARE PRINTING IT AND BORROWING ON OUR FUTURE TO DO IT.
This is insane and we do not have a government that has the guts, brains or wherewithall to handle it.
The loan to the auto industry is just adding more insult to injury and a controlled chapter 11 would protect the retirees and force the UAW to reformulate their contracts to be in line with the other auto industry workers, not in asia or a third world country but here in the U.S
It will also force these poorly run industries to restructure and become competitive in the marketplace. Competitive as in profitable and competitive as in leading the world auto industry in inovation and technology.

[Mac_Attack]

No one knows what will happen in the future but if those $350 Billion unwatched dollars would make it out to loans, then all types of sales should start happening. Car sales should take off, who knows, there may not be a need for a second LOAN . We could go on and on debating both sides, one thing I think we can all agree on is we need jobs in the USA, lets keep them here. Billy Mac

[Hammerhead]

The nation needs to keep all 3 in biz. The rub is the UAW. There's alot of fat to trim. If they're not willing,..then I say let'm go under and resurface open-shop in right to work states.

[Seacrets]

I'll kind of play devil's advocate here. We as consumers don't question quality, mileage etc., we question the greed of the industry and the salaries and benefit packages paid out and how the bailout money will be used. The average auto worker's hourly rate and benefit package is approx. $71 per hr. There's a reason why the more recent car manufacturers have built plants in the south, to distance themselves from union demands and ridiculous hourly rates. I'm insulted when a CEO says, I'll work for a dollar this year when he made $21 million last year. Three CEOS (with total salaries of over $60 mill. annually) show up in D.C. in their corporate jets and ask for money without as much as a game plan, and then the amount is bumped up an additional $9 billion in two weeks. We, as consumers will be paying back the bailout money, not the big three.
How about Detroit gives up the big three, they restructure and move to the south with a wage and benefit package of about $35 per hour and build good, quality cars and trucks at a fair price.

[Mac_Attack]

Here is a story one of our news anchors here in Detroit did on the comparison of wages. You'll see the UAW is doing what they can to even the pay.



Guy Compares UAW, Non-UAW Pay Scales


POSTED: Friday, December 12, 2008
UPDATED: 7:14 pm EST December 12, 2008



DETROIT -- On Capitol Hill, when they start talking automotive wages politics pollutes the process. They don't compare apples with apples -- they throw rotten fruit. Instead, we’ll try to get to the meat -- is there a wage gap and how big is it really?
When automakers went to Capitol Hill last week they opened their books for congress.
Instant Feedback: UAW Vs. Non-UAW Pay Scales
Ford compared its cost for an hour of labor and the cost at non-union plants.
United Auto Workers pay now stands at $29 an hour against $26 an hour for the transplants -- a $3 gap.
The cost of vacation, overtime costs and the jobs bank adds $14 for the domestics and $9 for non-union.
Then comes the biggie legacy costs, the cost of retiree health care: $16 for the domestics, just $3 for the transplants.
They are close to parity on active health care FICA, insurance and worker's comp, 12 versus 11.
Total it all up, wages plus benefits. One hour of labor costs $71 for the Detroit Three. Versus $49 for the transplants, a $22 an hour difference.
That $70 figure is the one Republican’s like to quote so often in those testy hearings. Republicans insisted Thursday night that the field must be level before taxpayers invest with a loan, it fell apart over timing.
“What my colleagues...when will we actually get there,” said Tennessee Republican Senator Bob Corker.
Under the UAW contract, the gap begins to close next year.
When the new retiree health care plan, the VEBA kicks it, parity in legacy costs is achieved and the gap narrows and shrinks by 60 percent.
Once they begin hiring again, new hires come in at lower wages and benefits. When one-fifth of the workforce at Ford Motor Co. is in the new bracket the average wage falls another $5.
The new inclusive wage is $52 an hour for the Detroit three and $49, just a $3 an hour gap.
The UAW says it will consider ways to accelerate the changes and cut to parity but wants to know what parity really is before committing. “I had indicated to Senator Corker if we use Toyota as a benchmark,” said UAW President Ron Gettelfinger. “Then our research department was prepared to go to Toyota go in and review their wage structure.”
Gettelfinger insists Toyota actually pays its workers more when you include bonuses, about $8,000 a worker. He’s right, the average straight wage is about $30 an hour but analysts said it doesn't address the gap issue because if American companies were making a profit, their worker bonuses could be even more lucrative.
Copyright 2008 by ClickOnDetroit.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.



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Guy Compares UAW, Non-UAW Pay Scales

POSTED: Friday, December 12, 2008
UPDATED: 7:14 pm EST December 12, 2008

[bradford]

If ya can't compete, trim your fat! It pisses me off to give money to people who are inept and can't straighten out their own problems whether it be the auto manufacturers, banks, wannabe real estate tycoons, or the welfare check crowd. The Big Three has all kind of people who went to school and studied corporate finance, accounting, and management and get paid more than I make to figure this crap out. Hell, instead of bailing out these losers why doesn't the government give me a tax break for paying my mortgage on time (early usually, with additional principal), not carrying any credit card debt, driving a 15 year old truck, and all around living within my means? I guess I'm just Joe Middle Class who gets the SHAFT BIG ENOUGH FOR AN ELEPHANT TO FEEL IT!