Internet Sales Tax

[tartuffe]

Cannot agree with you Destroyer. Remember our fearless leader picking favorites? Goverment should not be allowed to look the other way while internet businesses crush it in profits leaving the brick and mortars to wother away leaving empty shells across our nation.

I've bought over $3000 worth of boating supplies over the last year via the web and I love saving money but to say the government should allow the current structure to continue so I can pay less is irresponsible to the larger picture.

[tartuffe]

Originally Posted by Destroyer

When you have hundred million dollar brick and mortar stores crying about being treated fairly you know that something is not kosher. Their aim is to eliminate competition, pure and simple, and they are using the US Government to help accomplish their goal.

Brick and mortar invest in communities, employ personnel, pay utilities and local taxes. B&M are the inneficient economic pumps that help communities spend the same money multiple times. I say that has earned them the right to a level playing field. How about the local mom and pop tackle store? They too don't deserve a level playing field either?

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by tartuffe

Brick and mortar invest in communities, employ personnel, pay utilities and local taxes. B&M are the inneficient economic pumps that help communities spend the same money multiple times. I say that has earned them the right to a level playing field. How about the local mom and pop tackle store? They too don't deserve a level playing field either?

Well, since ALL big brick and mortar stores have their own internet sales departments I'm sorry but your arguement doesn't hold water. They can (and do) make just as much (or more) money on the internet as the little guy because they have the name and so people go to their sites more often.

And yes, B&M's are large economic pumps...but they are also large 500 lb gorillas that come into a community with drastically low prices that the local guys can't compete with, (Look at the business model for Home Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart, etc.. it's all the same...they'll deliberately lose money for a year or two until the competition is gone) drive them out of business and then they have an economic stranglehold on that community. Then they start raising their prices and cheapening their merchandise. After all, who's there to compete with them? Don't you see??? They are not interested in a level playing field...they want the whole playing field. They want it ALL!! You think that's fair?

Here's an idea...how about we make it so that they cannot do that? Wouldn't that level the playing field? Lets pass laws that large B&M's cannot sell things at lower prices and drive out competition. Sounds kind of silly right? Yet that's exactly what they are trying to do to the little guys right now with this tax BS.... drive them out of business so they can have the whole internet playing field to themselves. And the government doesn't care... they're gonna get more revenue...so they're happy... Like I said, it's the consumer that ultimately is gonna lose out, which is why we need to fight this thing.

[tartuffe]

People go in a B&M, hold the item, inspect it, compare it to the other manufacturers of the same product sold in store and then buy it on Amazon. If the big guys have such an advantage why is Best Buy on the verge of bankruptcy? Why is Circuit City out of business? Who knocked Boater's World out of business? Why does West Marine not price match any longer? For God's sake Sear's is finally off the edge of bankruptcy after teetering on the brink for years. People shopping for a product of any value start with a ggole search of said product followed by "for sale." The immediately get 5 results from various stores. How can B&M's compete when they have the additional overhead of all their stores PLUS the local tax rate up to 13% in some areas?

Almost every place I buy from gives me an instant shipping quote based on my zip. Technology has made it very simple to do the same for sales taxes to the destination.

My argument is sound, backed up by facts, therefore holds water.

Remind me again why internet businesses having to account for use tax rather than the consumer is so terrible? Also if you hate use tax so much that you are willing to risk imprisonment then move to a state without it and problem solved. FYI, Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire and Delaware are your choices.

Last thing, move to one of those states, set up 100 different business websites and sell to consumers by buying and shipping to them while staying under the $1 million revenue threshold and assist others in evading taxes. Now THAT is fighting the fight.

[Destroyer]

You say that there is no difference between an Internet tax and a sales tax in the store. But you're wrong. With 11,000 separate tax jurisdictions and rates in the US, taxing sales online is a huge burden on net firms. And, government regulation, oversight, retaliation, and discipline will invade the Internet under the guise of collecting back taxes. This is what you're letting in the back door under the pretense of "fairness". Sorry if you cannot see it that way. That doesn't change the fact of it.

[tartuffe]

There are over 41,000 zip codes and if you search the web there are FREE spreadsheet databases that tie zip code into sales tax rate for that zipcode. Any local computer guy could customize that database to tie into your accounts payable/receivable database for less than what you pay for your general accounting software.

[Monkey Butler]

Originally Posted by tartuffe

There are over 41,000 zip codes and if you search the web there are FREE spreadsheet databases that tie zip code into sales tax rate for that zipcode. Any local computer guy could customize that database to tie into your accounts payable/receivable database for less than what you pay for your general accounting software.

Not so easy. Tax jurisdictions are not as simple as zip code. In some locales there are state, county, city, parish, school district, etc, etc taxes to collect.

Sometimes the defining line can be the even/odd side of the street.

Even if you have software to calculate the tax (and there are providers licking their chops hoping) the issue of remittance and auditing is huge. Suppose someone from Illinois places a ten dollar order with a New Hampshire company? New Hampster (Live Free or Die) doesn't have a sales tax. Illinois has state tax, county tax , local tax, etc... We are talking pennys of tax due but the seller needs to keep track of what jurisdiction is due what. How often does each tax jurisdiction want to get paid? Some monthly, some quarterly? What if any jurisdiction thinks an online seller is under reporting? Can a county in Peoria audit a seller in New Hampster?

The obvious solution would seem to be a Federal agency to act as a clearing house to make reporting and remittance simpler.

Do you see where this is going?

[RidgeRunner]

States need to simplify. 50 States/50 Sales Tax rates.. Those opposed to the sales tax are painting the issue into seemingly unsurmountable amounts of work. It is not.
As a buyer, you will get used to sales tax soon enough. Then you will be paying "your share" like those of us who don't buy off the internet. Why were you getting a break in the first place? Ridiculous really, how about keeping books? Paying for a Business License? etc. What other breaks do internet based businesses get?

[Destroyer]

You guys still don't get it. Monkey Butler pointed it out beautifully, but I guess there are none so blind as those that will not see. The taxes due to different places (states, counties, parishes, etc) are going to become so confusing that the Federal Government is going to have to step in to help sort out the confusion, (as only they can). So they will become the collectors of the taxes, keep a portion for themselves for their trouble (administrative costs) and pass the rest along to the various states etc.

But you know, it's going to be soooooo hard to keep track.... wouldn't it be easier and more efficient if the tax was the same throughout the entire Country? I know...lets have a value added tax instead of a sales tax..that way it will be fair for everyone.... And they'll start off with a small VAT, but in a few years, after people get used to paying it, they'll start raising it.. 1-2% per year. Pretty soon it will be 10% of the cost of ANY item you buy, internet or in person. And we will NEVER get rid of it, it will simply be another yoke around our necks. Another source of revenue for the Government. I tell you, they are licking their chops, salavating over the thought of a national VAT. Don't believe me? Look at Europe, look at their VAT's. How they came into being, what they started with and where they are now... You're playing with fire guys, and we're all gonna get burned as a result..

[Monkey Butler]

Maybe going a bit off base here but since this IS the political forum I think anything is fair game.

List your favorite taxes... In order of most regressive to leastregessive.


I'll start:

Gas Tax
Sales Tax
Income Tax
Wealth Tax

The last one on the list is not currently taxed. You can have a bazillion dollars invested in municiple bonds, real estate, etc... and they have their own tax rules.

What if we said that we need to look at your portfolio of holdings and then tax you at say 1% of your net worth.?

Me, with debts like mortgage, credit cards, student loans, etc. I'd be negative. Look at any high level government official.. Obama, Kerry, Clinton, Franks, Dodd... See what thier wealth is and see what they pay on income.

We are getting f***ked.