R.I.P. America

[reelapeelin]

Originally Posted by willy

Franco, I spent some days as a guest in your home, you and Robin were wonderful and I enjoyed my time with you both.
When you me and Ozzie hung out fishing it was good times.
That being said after many days about worrying about you and your situation you could not even find the courtesy to return phone calls to someone who genuinely cared about you and your family.
Often we would speak on the phone and you would start a conversation about political situations and I thought we discussed them as friends and I never felt that we ever closed our conversations in any hostile way.
Then I come to find out through a couple of sources that you felt that I was politically hostile to your agenda. And apparently you made comments that I had some issues you did not care to discuss.
OK, I can live with that. Dont bring them up and be upset when I disagree with you.
Normally men can disagree and still be friends. It happens every day among friends, family, neighbors etc.
A man I respect a lot, Ozzie, and I disagree about a lot of things but he is man enough to discuss them and to consider others positions. I respect that, a lot. And i always respect his point of view.
After a very long time of not being part of the V20 family, abandoning all those who considered you a friend including me, you appear and make a statement about a good man, and others on this site implying a racist motive for disagreeing with the Obama and his socialist programs which are destroying this nation and I felt I had to respond.
Shame on you, shame on those statements and shame on you for the way you decided to reappear amongst friends.
It shows a decided lack of character, and it also fits in very well with who you associate with politically, and the attitude they bring towards those of us who respect our Constitution, the American heritage and the loss of freedom we all will be experiencing under the socialist president.
It was also very childish. I am hoping that your recent history and the troubles you have lived through are clouding your judgement, or maybe you have just been toking a little too much.
Either way, you owe many here an apology. And I will think very much less of you if that is not forthcoming.

Willy's views are what they are...and Franco's as well...it saddens me to see this and can only hope it doesn't represent a bridge between old friends, burnt. I have, on the other hand, maintained a friendship w/both of these good people and want to retain same going forward. What I want to do now is make it perfectly clear, that as I am named in Willy's response, that I am in no way to be considered a wedge between the two. Willy, while I appreciate your respect, I'm not sure naming me in this feud was the wisest of choices...certainly wouldn't have been my choice to be named. Down the road, if I can do anything to reunite these old friends, I will happily do so and look forward to the opportunity.

[jeffmo]

[QUOTE=willy;196712]Two comments, first Rob I personally know two people in small business. A woman and a man who employ several people each. The lady wanted to expand in 2012 but did not out of fear of what the costs of doing business would be for her due to the government and the personal tax situation.
Both of them have been carrying people who work for them biding time until someone with leadership and business common sense got into the office.
both of them had faith in the American People to stand up against the rising tide of socialism in this country and the entitlement Greek like culture we have in middle and low income America.
The fellow has not taken a salary for over a year now so he did not have to lay anyone else off.
He decided now to close up.
She will not expand and will have to stop carrying some of her people.
That is going on all over this nation and it is going to get a lot worse.
Big and small companies.
Lockheed is going to lay off 127,000 employees. Just them. The Obama Administration made promises to them and other defense contractors so they would not send out the notices they were required by law to send out before the election.
Young people will find an even harder job market as many who had planned to retire and were waiting for someone who could turn the economy around so their 401k's and IRA's would rebound from their huge losses the past four years. Plus the job creators themselves are looking at bleak forecasts.
My wife's company ATT is getting ready to lay off thousands.
It is very bad, and it is going to get much much worse.

And JeffMo what exactly is the voter suppression you talking about in Ohio, are you referring to having to identify yourself. If you are shame on you.
You want to see voter suppression go to the precincts in Philly where the Black Paters were patrolling the entrances.
Or in Queens NY where a woman wearing a go Mitt hat was physically removed to a cheering crowd and not allowed to vote.
Or the State Senate candidate who went to vote in NY but being white had her voting card inspected before being allowed to put it in the machine to be scanned, and instructed that she had filled it out wrong and was told to mark something on the dem side of the card, which would have made it double marked and rejected later in the count.
All these things and many thousands more were happening in our cities around the country and are all documented.
The union run precincts like in Las Vegas where the SEIU run the machines and inner city voting booths have turned our country into a banana republic as far as voting is concerned and that is why the Mayor of Bridgeport Connecticut told the press don't worry so and so will win, I guarantee it "one way or another"
And the press that heard it laughed along with him.
So with so much voter fraud many good people in this country wanted to have laws that said you had to provide some ID to vote. They even made sure that everyone could get ID free so they would have it.
This was labeled as voter suppression. Even Obama had to show ID when he voted in Chicago. There they have a law that was not challenged by the Att General.
But in these other states where voter fraud is rampant law suits were filed.
Go figure, right.
Listen, do I believe the Obamination won? Yes. Likely by a lot less than were counted, but yes.
Do I beleive there is voter suppression and banana republic bulk vote buying in many of our urban centers. AbsoFNlutely.
I would like for you to tell me how any voters in Ohio were suppressed. If it is the ID laws you are talking about then you are in the company of a very few who think that is voter suppression, in fact in most countries around the world they require ID to vote.
We can't have that here! That would upset to many union and inner city apple carts.[/QUOTE]

No,I'm wasn't refering to voter ID.How about we implement National voter id cards? But since you brought that up it definately was used as a weak excuse to try to employ voter ID laws.You see the Republicans CLAIMED that was the problem that they were trying to remedy.But to put it truthfully it was a lie and nothing more.The fact is that here in Ohio as well as some other states,the rate of voter fraud is so low that you have a better chance of being hit by lightning than you do of finding a case of voter fraud.
But,in our case we have a SOS named Husted who first tried to lengthen early voting hours in counties w/ historically strong Republican backing while at the same time he tried shortening the hours in counties with strong Democratic backing.A judge ordered him to make the hours equal.They were in fact TRYING to rig the game.Since then he ignored some other orders from judges.Now he's got some more explaining to do!
IF I were a betting man I'd have to wager that he may end up being convicted of a crime or two.
http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/state/J...Husteds-office

And as far as upsetting the union apple cart goes there's no more influence from them than there is from privately funded groups.I like comparing apples to apples!

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by reelapeelin

Willy's views are what they are...and Franco's as well...it saddens me to see this and can only hope it doesn't represent a bridge between old friends, burnt. I have, on the other hand, maintained a friendship w/both of these good people and want to retain same going forward. What I want to do now is make it perfectly clear, that as I am named in Willy's response, that I am in no way to be considered a wedge between the two. Willy, while I appreciate your respect, I'm not sure naming me in this feud was the wisest of choices...certainly wouldn't have been my choice to be named. Down the road, if I can do anything to reunite these old friends, I will happily do so and look forward to the opportunity.

Reel, I think you misunderstand Willy's use of your name in his post. While I cannot be certain, the way I took it was that he was not trying to use you as a wedge, but rather as a shining example of how two people can disagree about something and yet still remain the best of friends. Additionally I think he was trying to point out to Franco that he was hurt by his unreturned phone calls and by Franco's talking about him behind his back. You see, friends don't do that.

As to reuniting them, well, I just don't see that happeniing until Franco grow's a pair, man's up and apologies to this board for his very racist comments. He doesn't owe me, or Willy, or any one person here an apology,.... he owes everyone an apology for bringing, (or at least trying to bring) race into what was, until that time, a conversation about the decline of America and American values. And if he cannot do that then the hell with him, he's out of my life like yesterdays trash.

[RidgeRunner]

[QUOTE=jeffmo;196698]Last evening I read a post on this site that described the citizens of Ohio as those "Bastards in Ohio f-d it up for those of us that desperately wanted to turn it around".Coming from a person in a state that can't seem to properly run an election it was funny at best. Funny is how the bastard comment was intended so you got it. It was all I could muster at 2:00 in the morning after getting confirmation that there would be no need for Florida's votes to even be counted. "A Win is a Win" in the same post gave credit to the massive campaign that got BHO re-elected, and he made a good speach. The people spoke, I wouldn't call it a mandate. Taxes will follow spending like we have seen before. No need to overdramatize voter fraud that didn't exist. My party won and I am utterly ashamed to be a Democrat.
Here in Ohio we have witnessed ALOT of very unfair things occur by some Republicans who hold office.Our Secretary of State ignored judges orders at least 3 times when it came to the republicans efforts to engage in voter suppression. If the effort you are referring to is voter ID then I disagree with you, everyone has an ID of some description, ID's required here in FL without a problem. Stop trying to play the victim, there has been no voter fraud that I am aware of. You won, don't make it into something it is not... Despite their efforts,people voted.So the BS about how we're "bastards" up here who "f-d it up" for some others who didn't get their way is just that,BS. BS is being a married, white, heterosexual, lower income father of one who is tired of his government fleecing him for his hard earned money so they can redistribute it in places I never even heard of. So for the difference of 3 points nationally? My vote was cast on deaf ears, that is the utter truth and I think it is BS. It is hard for me to accept that there could be a larger group of people out there that don't share my values and core beliefs. ie. The group of people that would want Obama as their president, but then I realized I am self reliant, I'm not for unions or wellfare or food stamps, or government housing, I don't have a dog in the fight on gay rights, immigration, or abortion. I don't ask for special programs to bail me out when I don't make good decisions. I take care of my own and therefore I ask very little of the elected government. , One more than one occasion we had to go to bat to prevent them from attemping to rig the vote.There should be a thank you for the efforts to keep that right from being trampled on.[/QUOTE
I will not thank ye Democrats for upholding the Constitution because they clearly have not in the past 4 years IMO. you are trying to make a counterpoint to a comment made by someone else I fail to understand. If you were sincerely offended by the BFO comment, I hope you can accept my apology. We are all in the same boat. Pun intended. We will certainly disagree on politics and religion.
Vic

[Skools Out]

OK All this BS is just that BS no I did not vote for Obama, his color didn't mean **** to me but his ways did. I wish Herman Cain could have run against him. Then we could see what the vote was in the color / race. He may have had issues as ALL them do. I just now pray our country can survive 4 more yrs. Lets just pray for our country.

[macojoe]

We all share different opinions, But I have not, and will not have any racist remarks going on here!!
Sorry Franco you feel this way, but this thread had gotten out of hand!! I am not going to delete it, but I am going to close it as we don't need this type of thread here on this site!!, Now go catch some fish and be friends.