subaru or volvo??

[charlie_the_tuna]

Originally Posted by spareparts

I guess this is the annual "Charlie wants another car thread"

hey spare, have i become that predictable? well, HA!! because it's now a bi-annual thread.

[THEFERMANATOR]

It's a bit newer than your looking at, but look at an 06+ MALIBU MAXX wagon if your interested in a wagon type. They get good milage, and are a pretty nice ride I think. It's the same drivetrain as my wifes PONTIAC G6, and it has been as trouble free as anything could be.

[spareparts]

I always know you can take what ever we dish out, Charlie.
AS far as import vs domestic, there are far too many variables to say one way or the other, personally I believe the general public has been brain washed into thinking foreign cars are better built than American, there are far too many issues at hand to make that statement one way or another, country of origin? Country of manufacture? Parent country of manufacture? The lines are so blurred its hard to define whats foreign made or whats domestic built. I just find it wrong that because a company is a traditional American company, its assumed that they are inferior product. This country gave the foreign manufactures plenty of ammo to make statements against our manufacturing with cars built in the 70's-80's. I won't even get my soap box out about union labor(UAW) or socialized auto manufactures(Italy, France). Like I said, I have a 99 Burb with over 200K, a 99E350 with over 340K, an 02 Burb with 100K, I could add up every expense I've paid out on all three vehicles for repairs and it would be less than one years payments on a new Toyota. Does Toyota make a good car? Yes, But so does Ford, GM, and Chrysler. They've all built turds and they've all built good cars. I have friends that own independent car shops and the first thing they tell you is the Toyota's and Honda's are what keeps them in business. That emblem on the hood of a Mercedes is a target sight, it takes aim on your wallet, BMW stands for "bust my wallet". Its not just the car, but the attitude of the customer, just like the boats we own. I tell some one their four stroke Yamaha needs $500 spent on it for service, they usually don't balk, I tell some one their 2 stroke Johnson needs $250 spent on it and you'd think I was trying to rape them. I've seen every brand of motor fail at one time or another, they all break, if they don't, they'll replace it with one that will(6.0L Ford Diesel). Biggest pos car I ever owned was a Volkswagon Dasher Station Wagon, even a minor repair exceeded the value of the car, followed by a Nissan Hardbody 4wd pickup, with a four cylinder on a good day it got 15 mpg(my E350 gets better), parts for the ignition and fuel injection were obsolete about four years after it was built. My 02 E150 died a horrible death at 105k with jumped timing chains. Had a friend that had a Mazda Miata, crank position sensor went out, the sensor cost more that the car was worth. Toughest car I've ever owned with out a doubt, was my 96 2wd Cherokee, its got over 200K and my sister drives it everyday. I can fix just about anything on it with a paperclip, screwdriver and an adjustable wrench. To say one brand does far better than the other is hard to justify, take each one independently and look at the history. Throw the consumer reports out the window along with JD Powers, they are all advertising companies, they work on cash. Look at overall repair cost and parts availability, look at service options, talk to mechanics in independent shops, look at what they drive. I always thought Hyundai or Kia was POS, got a friend that works on Fords for a living and thats what he drives. The only thing you can count on is if they build a car that's too good, they will stop building it, whether its foreign or domestic.

[charlie_the_tuna]

well how 'bout this. . . . i had a 1957 ford slabside pickup with a 300 six and 3 on the tree. fell apart with half a million miles on it but still ran. had 9 camaros and a couple V8 vegas. never a problem. hooked up with my wife and it was one nightmare american car after another. never had a complaint with the smallblock chevy but some of the other crap i've dealt with was another story. had a couple camrys. my last one ran like it just came off the showroom floor. tranny shifted like it was brand stankin new. my father in law never let my wife drive anything but american and that's where it all started. head gasket after head gasket after slipping tranny after soft cams after this after that. . . . . . it just never ended.
maybe the good old U S of A builds a fantastic car these days but i'll never know it. bring me back to the days of nothing but a motor and a battery under the hood. used to buy cars for under $500. bucks all the time. once bought a 69 camaro for $575. that was cleaner than sh!t. same car goes for around $15,000. these days.
nope, my wifes next daily's gonna be a jap car. she loves her toyota mini-van but the thing drinks gas like a 600 pound irishman. my next one'll be a big chevy with a smallblock.
think about why some of the best motors ever built are no longer made. america made some motors that you could add sand to the oil and get another million miles. the 226 slant six. the chevy 283. just couldnt stop 'em. they wanted their motors to die so the comsumer would keep buying cars. problem is, it worked too good and they started producing nothing but sh!t.

[spareparts]

I read somewhere that the quality of automobiles, vs the cost, vs the available technology, vs ... you get the idea. That the best cars ever made by that criteria were built in the late 50's early 60's in the USA.


BTW, I think Ferm may be on to something about that Malibu wagon, my cousin worked at a Saturn dealership till they closed up, swore the Saturn version of the bu was one heck of a car

[willy]

In that foreign domestic vain I want to tell you guys about something that happened the other day.
I wanted a rear wheel drive car and I started checking around.
Though it turns out I cannot afford to do it as I have a current lease, I found one of the greatest cars I have ever sat my arse into.
Are you ready?
Chrysler.
Dodge Charger, Road and Track Edition, small V8, rear wheel drive, and all kinds of handling and going and braking enhancements.
Phenomenal, would take it over any BMW, Audi etc. I have driven during my search.
Handles like a nice new Corvette, smooth as silk going down the road. Tight, no squeaks no rattles. Dead quiet until you open up that beautiful engine and hear the nicest engine growl this side of a Ferrari.
go into a hard turn at 50 mph and she runs through flat as a pancake without the slightest bit of drama.
The car dealer had a death grip on the seat until he realized I know what the heck I am doing and I ran it through about 20 minutes of mixed back bumpy road and smooth hard cornering.
Very comfortable room for five adults, all the electronic amazement a man can handle with 1960's engine power and torque with 2012 European sedan handling.
I pleaded the case with the CEO, but with two in college it is not going to happen for me.
Been a week and still cannot stop thinking about the shear pleasure of that vehicle.
With 19 city and 25 highway mileage to boot.
Sorry to highjack the thread CT but needed to vent.

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by THEFERMANATOR

Not to sound cynical or anything, but your going to base your opinion of all domestics off of one bad apple? It would probably shock you to know that the POS engine(yes the 2.7L was a POS from the get go as I worked for DODGE when it came out and the techs all pointed out the faults from the get go and CHRYSLER did nothing) you quote was built and designed in a paretnership with MERCEDES BENZ? If you think back MERCEDES and CHRYSLER joined forces in 95, and in 96 the POWERTECH series engines started to come out. The 2.7L was one of them along with the redesigned 4.0L JEEP, and the 4.7L DODGE engine(used in the JEEP first). And not all 2.7L engines died, the majority of failures with them were due to extended oil change intervals plugging the oil galleys(that engine NEEDED the oil changed every 3K miles). I've seen them run well over 100K miles, and still look brand new inside. In the 70's the imports were far and away better than the domestic made cars, I will agree with this. But by the early 90's the domestic cars had become every bit as good if not better than many imports. Yes there are bad apples with any manufacturers as I could go on and on pointing out bad apples in ALL of them. Push comes to shove though as a whole, the domestic made cars are every bit as good now as any import.

Well, I'm 67, I've been driving since 1961. That's over 50 years of driving. Up to the Honda all I"ve ever owned is American vehicles. I've paid my dues. So no, I'm not basing my opinion on only one vehicle.. There have been several along the line.. My fathers 84? Buick that ate head gaskets every 6 months. My friends Ford mustang with a 5.0 engine that loved rear ends. My 92 Dodge Dynasty with a great (3.3L) engine married to a tranny that would only go about 70,000 miles before needing to be rebuilt, my sons Chevy Baretta that blew clutches on a regular basis.... the list is endless... and I still refused to buy foreign born during all of that... Right up until my wifes Intrepid with the 2.7. The rest is history. I found out that what millions of people were saying about the Honda Accord was 100% correct. It's simply a great car.

And yes, I know all about Chrysler being owned by Daimler/Benz. As a matter of fact, that was one of my reasons for going with the Honda. I figured that since most auto companys were international anyways, it really didn't matter that much what brand I bought. I know that technically if a car maker has a foreign headquarters then some money leaves our shores..and that gives me pause to think, but we still have the Honda and she (my wife) still loves it. And I'd like to point out that my 98 Jeep Cherokee with it's inline 4.0L engine is still in my possession, (Which was an engine originally designed by AMC btw) It's run almost daily and I still get an honest 20 mpg highway. In my opinion it's one of the two greatest 6 cyl engines ever built, the other being the Chrysler 225 ci slant 6. I haven't eschewed American iron totally, but I have had to rethink my opinions about buying it exclusively.

[randlemanboater]

Back to your original question CTT...my Mom and Uncle have both had real good luck with Subarus and real bad luck with Volvos.

Of course the Ford Volvos may be better.