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#11
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I work for a very successful real estate development company. I take ckecks to various towns all the time to pay for building premits, electrical permits, plumbing premits, occupancy premits, elevator permits, permit permits, just about any kind of permit you can think of... We pay hundreds of thousands of dollars just for permits in order to build a warehouse. Permits are nothing but cash cows for towns... In 1934 my grandfather built his homd in Belleville, NJ. That home sold 5 years ago when my uncle died for over $600,000. My grandfather did not need a single permit in order to build the house. My point of this rant is that unless we, the people, start electing people that think like we do, we are doomed to forever being ruled by an elite class that think they know more than we do and make lots of laws to protect us from ourselves. Most times completely unnecessarly. The fishing bans are a great example.
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1987 V20 w/1987 150HP Yamaha on a Shoreland'r Trailer 1978 16.5 Airslot w/1996 120HP Force on a Four Winns trailer 1996 V21 w/1993 200HP Mercury on a Shoreline Trailer All towed by a 5.7L Hemi Durango. If God didn't have a purpose for us we wouldn't be here, so Live simply, Love generously, Care deeply, Speak kindly. (Leave the rest to God)  Silence, in the face of evil, is itself evil. Not to speak is to speak, not to act is to act. God will not hold us guiltless. 
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#12
11-04-2011, 06:57 AM
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Lots more traction on this topic than anticipated. Laws have importance in society. It all began with warning labels. LOL.
Prosecution: "Mr. Siredfish, Where were you at 10:43 am on Nov. 3, 2011? Is this or is this not a copy of your itterations on WellcraftV20.com? And do I have the best data available?" I'm with you, just not sure about skating with that defense. The FWC guy said that people will take no matter what the rules state. No **** sherlock! There are fish species worth protecting but get real. There is no shortage of goliath grouper, black sea bass, redfish, trout, or amber jack. Don't have any first hand data on grouper or red snapper but the folks at Florida Sportsman caught plenty of large red snapper in a size group the Feds claimed there simply weren't any. What techniques do they use to count all the fish in the ocean anyway?
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 1996 -19' NV Flats 115 Mercury 4-stroke 1983 -20' Wellcraft Center Console 250 XS
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#13
11-04-2011, 07:08 AM
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 Whats funny is that I think if you were to ask enough fisherman they would tend to say that the Grouper need more protection and not the aforementioned species. They could have a majority on their side as opposed but they want to hammer the stuff we know there is an abundance of. Anyway, better bite my tongue before they do find this...... I think they use hook and line, traps and diver counts to assess numbers but I heard the problem is that they grid an area out and fish it completely as opposed to going where the fish are and fishing multiple areas like the fisherman do. While they may be thorough, they isolate themselves geographically which is going to lead to a misrepresentation.......
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- The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but obtainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. Lucky Jack - .......The Surprise is not old; no one would call her old. She has a bluff bow, lovely lines. She's a fine seaboat: weatherly, stiff and fast, very fast, if she's well handled. No, she's not old; she's in her prime. 85' Wellcraft 20 Fisherman "Guale Girl" 1979 Alumnacraft 14 - STILL got holes in it 2006 WS Tarpon160f - "Mudd Butt"
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#14
11-04-2011, 09:01 AM
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I feel you on the permits and such but got to disagree on the speed limit. Laws are certainly necessary and I think a speed limit is one of those laws. If I didn't have kids I might feel differently.
I was just trying to make the point that why are some laws enforced to the nines and others have an unwritten but accepted threshold beyond what is actually legal. Isn't it kinda hypocritical for someone to rake a fisherman over the coals for breaking a fishing law when they just went over the speed limit on thier way to work? Or ate a slice of the wife's pizza at the pizza buffet when you only ordered the salad? Or used a different trailer tag on your boat trailer because the boat trailer tag was expired? What really gets in my craw is when a law is bent around and made to fit a situation where it was not intended to be used. Had that happen to me one time. I shoulda went to court but it was out of state, so I just payed the fine and moved on.
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 1994 Wellcraft V21
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#15
11-04-2011, 09:22 AM
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- The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but obtainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. Lucky Jack - .......The Surprise is not old; no one would call her old. She has a bluff bow, lovely lines. She's a fine seaboat: weatherly, stiff and fast, very fast, if she's well handled. No, she's not old; she's in her prime. 85' Wellcraft 20 Fisherman "Guale Girl" 1979 Alumnacraft 14 - STILL got holes in it 2006 WS Tarpon160f - "Mudd Butt"
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#16
11-04-2011, 12:18 PM
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FWC are the pushovers when it comes to fishery enforcement down here in Fl, try dealing with the NOAA people out on the water and see how you like that. They take your catch(ALL of it) to there boat, then count and measure them WITHOUT you present so you can't actually see what they are doing. They don't care what your papers say, they call it in and find out what the regs are if in doubt and go off of that. The NOAA people have said on numerous occasions that ignorance of teh law is no excuse and will be punsihed to the full extent of the law. Also keep in mind that NOAA doesn't answer to local or state courts, when you deal with them you deal with a federal court under basically there own jurisdiction. NOAA has truly become a monster and should be stopped, but with o in the house I don't see that happening.
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2011 SUNDANCE B20CCR SKIFF, 2011 YAMAHA 90HP 4 STROKE, 2011 KARAVAN SINGLE AXLE ALUMINUM TRAILER, LOWRANCE ELITE-7 HDI, MINN KOTA RIPTIDE TROLLING MOTOR 2000CC HYDRA-SPORT 225+HP EVINRUDE SOLD  AND THE PINK JEEP!!!! R.I.P. http://www.wellcraftv20.com/communit...ad.php?t=11664 
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#17
11-04-2011, 12:36 PM
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Ouch!!! That doesn't sound like much fun at all......
Here in GA, DNR works under NOAA's dollars and all they want to know is vessel name , owner and if you caught anything. Last time I was stopped he asked if we had caught any fish and I told him we had only been here 10mins and no we haven't. As he recorded that I asked him if he put that down, he said yes, I noted that you haven't caught any fish. I asked him if he put down how long I had been here and he said no.......Thats when I told him how easily it is to flaw the data. I was just a boat not catching fish, regardless of just showing up.......
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- The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but obtainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. Lucky Jack - .......The Surprise is not old; no one would call her old. She has a bluff bow, lovely lines. She's a fine seaboat: weatherly, stiff and fast, very fast, if she's well handled. No, she's not old; she's in her prime. 85' Wellcraft 20 Fisherman "Guale Girl" 1979 Alumnacraft 14 - STILL got holes in it 2006 WS Tarpon160f - "Mudd Butt"
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#18
11-04-2011, 01:32 PM
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Got stopped on my last fishing outing. They filled out a NOAA form 88-151 Enforcement Action Report and gave me a copy. I pinned it on my office wall, looking at it now. All kinds of data on this thing. Measured and counted all the fish. It states how many people on board, target species and an itemized list of what we caught. They checked every single safety item on the boat and all fishing licenses. The best part is the section where it says "Violation" and has two check boxes, one for YES and one for NO and there's a check mark in the latter.
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1994 Wellcraft V21
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#19
11-04-2011, 08:55 PM
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Quote of the month for sure:
"If its against the law to take f'n Seabass........consider me Al Capone."--SSIRedfish Some of this reminds me of a post a year ago from that crazy guy in Savannah. www.wellcraftv20.com/community/showthread.php?p=164508&highlight=carpe+libertas#p ost164508 .
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1985 Wellcraft V-20, Evinrude ETEC 150: SOLD 1979 Marine Trader 44, twin Ford Lehman 120s 2006 Panga 14, Tohatsu 20 Last edited by bradford; 11-04-2011 at 09:10 PM.
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#20
11-05-2011, 07:23 AM
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I like the part where he talks of NOAA's DNR........ Then go do it --if you can! But don't be surprised when the oppressors stampede their bewildered subjects against you. Most of those guys don't even know what the rules are........
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- The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but obtainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. Lucky Jack - .......The Surprise is not old; no one would call her old. She has a bluff bow, lovely lines. She's a fine seaboat: weatherly, stiff and fast, very fast, if she's well handled. No, she's not old; she's in her prime. 85' Wellcraft 20 Fisherman "Guale Girl" 1979 Alumnacraft 14 - STILL got holes in it 2006 WS Tarpon160f - "Mudd Butt"
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