For Willy

[Blue_Runner]

Willy, have you seen this site? Its also a magazine. I particularly like the message board (small link on left).

All you ever wanted to know about fabricating a bow and arrow from scratch. There's a couple of "build alongs" where you follow the progress.

I remember you said you used to be in the business and I thought you'd find this interesting (if you haven't already found it).
http://www.primitivearcher.com/
I'd love to make my own and hunt deer one day. ;)

[willy]

Blue there is actually a primitive archer magazine, I have made a few with mixed results, good friends of mine have made better ones and I used to host some of the self bow bow makers at my shop for two day seminars teaching how to do it and various other subjects as sinew backing, cherry bark backing etc. I carried staves and billets and all the tools for doing same in my shop. I carried three diffrent self bow makers bows also for those interested in purchasing a nice one.
One fellow famous around the world for his creations in primitive bows, arrows and obsidian work is a fellow from Virginia named Erret Callahan. I went to his home twice and spent a week making them with him along with a group of six others. Very cool guy.
If you need info or help let me know I will do my best to get you started. May have some tools of the trade still in my shop I could help you out with, might even have a stave or two amongst my seasoning bow staves I could part with if you get into it.
There is a fellow on that site at the top talking about bamboo backed bows, his name is Dean Torges. Spent a lot of time talking with him at some events he and I have attended. If I was going to make a wood bow now knowing what I know that is the type of bow I would make, more durable and fabulous feel. Also perform well and the looks are stunning.
Let me know maybe when you are ready we can talk on the phone and I can help you along with your next addiction ;D

[Blue_Runner]

Very cool William....I figured you'd know about the site/mag.

Right now I'm just trying to learn the terminology...stave, tiller, nocks, billets etc.

I'm extremely interested but right now I don't know JACK crap about bows. I do know one thing though - they are absolutely BEAUTIFUL creations and IF I ever get back to bow hunting it will not be a modern compound bow - it will be one that I made from local materials ;)

What exactly is the tiller - is that the handle where your hand goes??

You know I already have fabricated a few points out of some of the scrap flint I find while hunting artifacts. I'll post up some pics in a min.

Thanks buddy!
BlueMan 8)

[willy]

Tiller is not part of the bow rather it is the balance of a bow. It specifically refers to how the limbs bend, referring to the arc or curve and the tillering which is how they bend in relation to each other. Generally the upper limb, do to where the pivot point is in the grip area is slightly longer than the lower limb but they must still bend in equal arcs and with equal pressure. A tillering board which is easy to make is used to do the final tillering once the proper tapering has been done to the limbs.

[Blue_Runner]

Ok, I put them in order so on the left is the first I attempt ever and far right is the last one I made. I started off with just percussion flaking - the first 4 are solely percussion, then the rest are mostly pressure flaked. I actually developed very bad elbow pain from the pressure flaking with a whitetail antler and had to stop doing it. I'm sure my form is BAD ::) but as you can see I got better and better at making them.

[Blue_Runner]

Tiller is not part of the bow rather it is the balance of a bow. It specifically refers to how the limbs bend, referring to the arc or curve and the tillering which is how they bend in relation to each other. Generally the upper limb, do to where the pivot point is in the grip area is slightly longer than the lower limb but they must still bend in equal arcs and with equal pressure. A tillering board which is easy to make is used to do the final tillering once the proper tapering has been done to the limbs.

Wow, I don't know how long it would have taken for me to figure that out but you described it perfectly! I do recall a tillering thread showing a guy that drew a circle around a pic of him with the bow drawn - and the limbs fit the cirle amazingly.

You are the man ;)

[Blue_Runner]

I found it:

[willy]

I believe that fellow is shooting from a spot I have shot many times, it looks exactly the same anyhow, Eastern Traditional Archery Rendezvous Denton Hill PA.
Blue not for nothing but something for you to consider. You do not have to go back to the stone age to have the feel you are looking for. Making your own equipment can be done a multitude of ways, all good.
You can make a stave bow (one piece) long bow or indian style flat bow or even a recurve. All very traditional.
You can make the same bows with a backing, cherry bark, sinew, rawhide, bamboo. All very traditional.
You can make the same bows with billets( two short pieces) joined in the handle area with a long finger type joint. And backed anyway you want. Popular with yew longbows due to it being tough to find long one piece staves with a straight enough grain. Very old and traditional also.
You can make laminated all wood bows, a la Dean Torges mentioned previously, also very old and traditional.

Or you can make a longbow or recurve or short flat bow out of laminated layers of wood backed front and back or just on the back with clear or colored fiberglass. Also very tradiitional. Only real difference is the material used for backing (fiberglass). These bows are what tradtional archery went to in the early fifties due to the durability of the others and the consistent performance of the bow.
A all wood bow or all laminated bow will change in performance and durability with humidity levels and tempertures. That change can be dramatic to say the least and if you are hunting in the rain some will outright fall apart or take a big set (limbs bent backwards) and performance will drop tremendously causing all kinds of problems with arrow flight, hunting performance etc. Modern epoxy finishes have eliminated some but not all of that.
That is why the old school ( ;D) archery greats went immediately to the glass backed bows when it came out in strips they could use. My heroes, Howard Hill Fred Bear Swineheart etc etc.
You can still make these type bows and many guys do. You can use a thin layer of clear glass to get the beauty of the all wood bows and you can still make your own arrows and mount your knapped points on them. You will shoot better, your grandkids will be handing down your bows and they will still shoot like the day you built it.
Just something to think about. Either way it is still as it always was the KIng of Sports ;)

[Blue_Runner]

Thanks for all the info Willy! A one-piece stave bow sounds like what I want.

I want to go back as close to the stoneage as possible. Ideally making my own sinew string, glue, and everything.

Having said that, I don't know if I'll ever be able to but its something I'd like to do.....I'd also like to try blacksmithing and many many other things...I think that's my problem - I WANT to do too much and don't know where to start ::)

[willy]

Done that too, blacksmithing that is, actually bladesmithing. Making hand forged knives.
I think we are brothers by a different mother ;)

Understand about the primitive drive, been there and done that. It was nice making my own self bows and I did enjoy it. I would highly recommend you skip the sinew string thing though. You won't like it and it shoots like sh!t unless you live in Arizona or something. Any humidity and they turn to rubber bands that don't stretch back. And that is the indians that used them out in the southwest. Anywhere else they made fiber based or gut based string until the white man showed them some other alternatives and then they dropped that like a hot rock. Indians are smart.