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[Mac_Attack]

Editor:
As I watch the coverage of the fate of the U.S.auto industry, one
alarming and frustrating fact hits me right between the eyes. The fate of
our nation's economic survival is in the hands of some congressmen who
are completely out of touch and act without knowledge of an industry that
affects almost every person in our nation. The same lack of knowledge is
shared with many journalists whom are irresponsible when influencing the
opinion of millions of viewers.

Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabamahas doomed the industry, calling it a
dinosaur. No Mr. Shelby, you are the dinosaur, with ideas stuck in the
'70s, '80s and '90s. You and the uninformed journalist and senators that
hold onto myths that are not relevant in today's world.
>
When you say that the Big Three build vehicles nobody wants to buy, you
must have overlooked that GM outsold Toyotaby about 1.2 million vehicles
in the U.S.and Ford outsold Honda by 850,000 and Nissan by 1.2 million in
the U.S. GM was the world's No. 1 automaker beating Toyotaby 3,000 units.

When you claim inferior quality comes from the Big Three, did you realize
that Chevy makes the Malibu and Ford makes the Fusion that were both
rated over the Camry and Accord by J.D. Power independent survey on
initial quality? Did you bother to read the Consumer Report that rated
Ford on par with good Japanese automakers.

Did you realize Big Three's gas guzzlers include the 33 mpg Malibuthat
beats the Accord. And for '09 Ford introduces the Hybrid Fusion whose 39
mpg is the best midsize, beating the Camry Hybrid. Ford's Focus beats the
Corolla and Chevy's Cobalt beats the Civic.

When you ask how many times are we going to bail them out you must be
referring to 1980. The only Big Three bailout was Chrysler, who paid back
$1 billion, plus interest. GM and Ford have never received government
aid.

When you criticize the Big Three for b uilding so many pickups, surely
you've noticed the attempts Toyota and Nissan have made spending billions
to try to get a piece of that pie. Perhaps it bothers you that for 31
straight years Ford's F-Series has been the best selling vehicle. Ford
and GM have dominated this market and when you see the new '09 F-150
you'll agree this won't change soon.

Did you realize that both GM and Ford offer more hybrid models than
Nissan or Honda. Between 2005 and 2007, Ford alone has invested more than
$22 billion in research and development of technologies such as Eco
Boost, flex fuel, clean diesel, hybrids, plug in hybrids and hydrogen
cars.

It's 2008 and the quality of the vehicles coming out of Detroitare once
again the best in the world.
Perhaps Sen. Shelby isn't really that blind. Maybe he realizes the
quality shift to American. Ma ybe it's the fact that his state of
Alabamahas given so much to land factories from Honda, Hyundai and
Mercedes Benz that he is more concerned about their continued growth than
he is about the people of our country. Sen. Shelby's disdain for
"government subsidies" is very hypocritical. In the early '90s he was the
driving force behind a $253 million incentive package to Mercedes. Plus,
Alabamaagreed to purchase 2,500 vehicles from Mercedes. While the bridge
loan the Big Three is requesting will be paid back, Alabama's
$180,000-plus per job was pure incentive. Sen. Shelby, not only are you
out of touch, you are a self-serving hypocrite, who is prepared to ruin
our nation because of lack of knowledge and lack of due diligence in
making your opinions and decisions.

After 9/11, the Detroit Three and Harley Davidson gave $40 million-plus
emergency v ehicles to the recovery efforts. What was given to the 9/11
relief effort by the Asian and European Auto Manufactures? $0 Nada. Zip!

We live in a world of free trade, world economy and we have not been able
to produce products as cost efficiently. While the governments of other
auto producing nations subsidize their automakers, our government may be
ready to force its demise. While our automakers have paid union wages,
benefits and legacy debt, our Asian competitors employ cheap labor. We
are at an extreme disadvantage in production cost. Although many UAW
concessions begin in 2010, many lawmakers think it's not enough.

Some point the blame to corporate management. I would like to speak of
Ford Motor Co. The company has streamlined by reducing our workforce by 51,000 since 2005, closing 17 plants and cutting expenses. Product and
future product is excell ent and the company is focused on one Ford. This
is a company poised for success. Ford product quality and corporate
management have improved light years since the nightmare of Jacques
Nasser. Thank you Alan Mulally and the best auto company management team
in the business.

The financial collapse caused by the secondary mortgage fiasco and the
greed of Wall Street has led to a $700 billion bailout of the industry
that created the problem. AIG spent nearly $1 million on three company
excursions to lavish resorts and hunting destinations. Paulson is saying
no to $250 billion foreclosure relief and the whole thing is a mess. So
when the Big Three ask for 4 percent of that of the $700 billion, $25
billion to save the country's largest industry, there is obviously
oppositions. But does it make sense to reward the culprits of the problem
with $700 bi llion unconditionally, and ignore the victims?

As a Ford dealer, I feel our portion of the $25 billion will never be
touched and is not necessary. Ford currently has $29 billion of
liquidity. However, the effect of a bankruptcy by GM will hurt the
suppliers we all do business with. A Chapter 11 bankruptcy by any
manufacture would cost retirees their health care and retirements.
Chances are GM would recover from Chapter 11 with a better business plan
with much less expense. So who foots the bill if GM or all three go
Chapter 11? All that extra health care, unemployment, loss of tax base
and some forgiven debt goes back to the taxpayer, us. With no chance of
repayment, this would be much worse than a loan with the intent of
repayment.

So while it is debatable whether a loan or Chapter 11 is better for the
Big Three, a $25 billion loan i s definitely better for the taxpayers and
the economy of our country.

So I'll end where I began on the quality of the products of Detroit.
Before you, Mr. or Ms. Journalist continue to misinform the American
public and turn them against one of the great industries that helped
build this nation, I must ask you one question. Before you, Mr. or Madam
Congressman vote to end health care and retirement benefits for 1 million
retirees, eliminate 2.5 million of our nation's jobs, lose the technology
that will lead us in the future and create an economic disaster including
hundreds of billions of tax dollars lost, I ask this question not in the
rhetorical sense. I ask it in the sincere, literal way. Can you tell me,
have you driven a Ford lately?

Jim Jackson, ElkinsFordland

[Skools Out]

Did you realize Big Three's gas guzzlers include the 33 mpg Malibuthat
beats the Accord. And for '09 Ford introduces the Hybrid Fusion whose 39
mpg is the best midsize, beating the Camry Hybrid. Ford's Focus beats the
Corolla and Chevy's Cobalt beats the Civic.

um no the Malibu does not get 33 mpg my neighbor just bought one it's lucky to get 24 hwy mpg he said. he said his 08 Corvette Z06 gets better on the hwy

[willy]

there is some valid points made, I am sure many of the facts quoted have been skewed to make the point.
My biggest issue with the chapter 11 will be the lack of leadership concerning those 1 million retirees. No one wants those people to be put in harms way. To be honest they could do the managed chapter 11 maintaining there contractual benefits but there has to be a leader with balls to stand up for it and not for the corporate shareholders.
The issue concerning quality has not been one of initial quality which they are proud of publishing in all their marketing, it is of quality down the road, after you put 80,000 on your car and have to start repairing major components that never seem to be covered by the warranty. That is the arena in which detroit has not been competitive and still are not.
The simple fact was explained very succinctly by the buisness and finance leaders in the industry, the buisness model currently being used by chrysler and gm especially will never be competitive. In fact what they want from the current congress is a stop gap temporary loan to see them into 2009 when the new congress and president is in office so they can get a huge payout from the government. Every single investment expert including those in detroit say that it is just an initial hold over stopgap loan. That many times that would be needed and the likelihood of a payback very slim.
I did not want to bail out wall street because we do not have the money to do it, we still don't. And after the initial 700 billion is almost gone the market still is no where near being stable and they in fact expect they will need up to an additional 750 to one trillion from the taxpayers in 2009.
THIS IS MONEY WE DO NOT HAVE, WE ARE PRINTING IT AND BORROWING ON OUR FUTURE TO DO IT.
This is insane and we do not have a government that has the guts, brains or wherewithall to handle it.
The loan to the auto industry is just adding more insult to injury and a controlled chapter 11 would protect the retirees and force the UAW to reformulate their contracts to be in line with the other auto industry workers, not in asia or a third world country but here in the U.S
It will also force these poorly run industries to restructure and become competitive in the marketplace. Competitive as in profitable and competitive as in leading the world auto industry in inovation and technology.

[Mac_Attack]

No one knows what will happen in the future but if those $350 Billion unwatched dollars would make it out to loans, then all types of sales should start happening. Car sales should take off, who knows, there may not be a need for a second LOAN . We could go on and on debating both sides, one thing I think we can all agree on is we need jobs in the USA, lets keep them here. Billy Mac

[Hammerhead]

The nation needs to keep all 3 in biz. The rub is the UAW. There's alot of fat to trim. If they're not willing,..then I say let'm go under and resurface open-shop in right to work states.

[Seacrets]

I'll kind of play devil's advocate here. We as consumers don't question quality, mileage etc., we question the greed of the industry and the salaries and benefit packages paid out and how the bailout money will be used. The average auto worker's hourly rate and benefit package is approx. $71 per hr. There's a reason why the more recent car manufacturers have built plants in the south, to distance themselves from union demands and ridiculous hourly rates. I'm insulted when a CEO says, I'll work for a dollar this year when he made $21 million last year. Three CEOS (with total salaries of over $60 mill. annually) show up in D.C. in their corporate jets and ask for money without as much as a game plan, and then the amount is bumped up an additional $9 billion in two weeks. We, as consumers will be paying back the bailout money, not the big three.
How about Detroit gives up the big three, they restructure and move to the south with a wage and benefit package of about $35 per hour and build good, quality cars and trucks at a fair price.

[Mac_Attack]

Here is a story one of our news anchors here in Detroit did on the comparison of wages. You'll see the UAW is doing what they can to even the pay.



Guy Compares UAW, Non-UAW Pay Scales


POSTED: Friday, December 12, 2008
UPDATED: 7:14 pm EST December 12, 2008



DETROIT -- On Capitol Hill, when they start talking automotive wages politics pollutes the process. They don't compare apples with apples -- they throw rotten fruit. Instead, we’ll try to get to the meat -- is there a wage gap and how big is it really?
When automakers went to Capitol Hill last week they opened their books for congress.
Instant Feedback: UAW Vs. Non-UAW Pay Scales
Ford compared its cost for an hour of labor and the cost at non-union plants.
United Auto Workers pay now stands at $29 an hour against $26 an hour for the transplants -- a $3 gap.
The cost of vacation, overtime costs and the jobs bank adds $14 for the domestics and $9 for non-union.
Then comes the biggie legacy costs, the cost of retiree health care: $16 for the domestics, just $3 for the transplants.
They are close to parity on active health care FICA, insurance and worker's comp, 12 versus 11.
Total it all up, wages plus benefits. One hour of labor costs $71 for the Detroit Three. Versus $49 for the transplants, a $22 an hour difference.
That $70 figure is the one Republican’s like to quote so often in those testy hearings. Republicans insisted Thursday night that the field must be level before taxpayers invest with a loan, it fell apart over timing.
“What my colleagues...when will we actually get there,” said Tennessee Republican Senator Bob Corker.
Under the UAW contract, the gap begins to close next year.
When the new retiree health care plan, the VEBA kicks it, parity in legacy costs is achieved and the gap narrows and shrinks by 60 percent.
Once they begin hiring again, new hires come in at lower wages and benefits. When one-fifth of the workforce at Ford Motor Co. is in the new bracket the average wage falls another $5.
The new inclusive wage is $52 an hour for the Detroit three and $49, just a $3 an hour gap.
The UAW says it will consider ways to accelerate the changes and cut to parity but wants to know what parity really is before committing. “I had indicated to Senator Corker if we use Toyota as a benchmark,” said UAW President Ron Gettelfinger. “Then our research department was prepared to go to Toyota go in and review their wage structure.”
Gettelfinger insists Toyota actually pays its workers more when you include bonuses, about $8,000 a worker. He’s right, the average straight wage is about $30 an hour but analysts said it doesn't address the gap issue because if American companies were making a profit, their worker bonuses could be even more lucrative.
Copyright 2008 by ClickOnDetroit.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.



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Guy Compares UAW, Non-UAW Pay Scales

POSTED: Friday, December 12, 2008
UPDATED: 7:14 pm EST December 12, 2008

[bradford]

If ya can't compete, trim your fat! It pisses me off to give money to people who are inept and can't straighten out their own problems whether it be the auto manufacturers, banks, wannabe real estate tycoons, or the welfare check crowd. The Big Three has all kind of people who went to school and studied corporate finance, accounting, and management and get paid more than I make to figure this crap out. Hell, instead of bailing out these losers why doesn't the government give me a tax break for paying my mortgage on time (early usually, with additional principal), not carrying any credit card debt, driving a 15 year old truck, and all around living within my means? I guess I'm just Joe Middle Class who gets the SHAFT BIG ENOUGH FOR AN ELEPHANT TO FEEL IT!

"Hell, instead of bailing out these losers why doesn't the government give me a tax break for paying my mortgage on time (early usually, with additional principal), not carrying any credit card debt, driving a 15 year old truck, and all around living within my means?", Bradford.

WELL PUT !!!!!! No one would be there to help me out if I coudn't make a payment or was close to bankruptcy. I have to work my butt off to keep up the balancing act, but I make it work and stay within my means for my family.

[shubey61]

I couldn't have said it better!