Skools: thanks much but I promised the little wifie that the v20 was my last project boat but that sounds like a good deal. I was just curious as to how they hold up etc. I did find out from a guy I stopped this morning at my dock who has one that you cant leave them in the water for more than 3 days before shi% starts growing on them here on the intercoastal so I have to look at getting a lift first or put it in and out after a few days ..I will probably try to find something turn key..Many thanks Frank