thanks for the reply might even go for new ones I have asked a few boaters about trim tabs most all said there rubbish but none have had any on a boat some guy said that if you have them set wrong in rough sea the boat will roll---seems like I cant find anyone here who has had them on a boat and if there that good why aren't people here using them---do they only work good on big boats ???? going to search around on utube see what I can find thanks