[jeffmo]

Originally Posted by willy

The problem Jeff, as I see it in this discussion is you are referring to "ultra right wingers". As if the people who are trying to get our nation, our towns and cities back on a common sense fiscal track are ultra right wingers.
I'm sorry, but that is mass media double speak, just as referring and demagoging the average American taxpaying citizen in the Tea Party as "ultra right wingers"
These are offensive terms to me, ultra right wingers are the people known as Facist's Nazi's etc. It is a term the Pelosi's and NYT and the Chicago Tribune used to describe these Americans and they should be ashamed of their actions. Despicable.
So lets get a few things out in the open here. From one Public Sector Union member to another.
When you are paid more, pensioned more, benefited more than the people who are paying the freight for it and it eventually catches up to you there is no room to say that some politician who seeks to reduce the budget and literally State destroying debt it has caused is an ultra right winger.
None whatsoever.
When you have some of the highest taxes in the world on people, and the top ten percent of the earners in this country are paying literally over seventy percent of the freight of this country you have literally no room whatsoever in saying it is not enough, it is unfair, etc.
If you have a politician who will balance the budget, restrict the overbearing nation destroying, people enslaving centralized government and allow Americans to again live free you darn sure better vote for him. If not for yourself, for your brother and sister citizens and for your children.
Because the alternative planned by this monster in office will take this country of ours down the crapper to socialism in a heartbeat.
The unholy alliance between the politicians and the unions in this country, specifically the demo/socialist party has put our nation, our states exactly where you are today. Knowing full well that it was unsustainable. Knowing full well that eventually it would all come tumbling down. But as long as they got theirs it was OK.
I know this to be true and I watched it for thirty years in a public sector union here in NJ. First hand, no ultra right wing nazi point of view just common sense.
It has come to full view do to the big down turn in our economy, where now the people who are paying the freight are suffering huge, and the reality of what that unholy alliance has wrought is in the lime light.
Major changes are being foisted upon all of us, yes the unions public and private are going to take a big shot, how things were done are going to change tremendously.
Many people on the left side of the equation in this country, just as in socialist countries around the world are in big trouble because as Thatcher brilliantly said many years ago, "the problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples money".
Voting for Romney is the only course we have to turn this economy around. You sound like a smart well spoken fellow, and I have no doubt you are, but you need to step back and look at the whole enchilada here. Four more years of an un-constrained socialist in the Whitehouse spell doom for us all. No doubt about it. Can you imagine the results of four more years of what we just had the past three and a half.
Is Romney perfect? H@ll no. Are their better men and women out there? H@ll yea. Did they have the wherewithal to commit to what has to be the greatest challenge in politics, knowing full well that what they will step into in 2013 will be a nation in decline? H@ll no.
Let me ask a simple question of all of us. You have a choice to have either the Obamination or Romney to run your personal finances, make the decisions for your household, plan your retirement and investments.
Who would you choose.
Exactly.
For 300 million Americans now. Who wold you choose to turn this nightmare we are in around.
Exactly.
You see many on the Left paint a picture of a zero sum game and play this off on us Americans.
The U.S economy is not a zero sum game. We just are not growing our economy due to the policies of division and massive government control and regulation.
The economy will grow, the pie we are dividing will grow if we let our free markets be free. Maybe many of the middle class jobs you refer to will be saved, not by stealing more money from fellow Americans but by the pie expanding and people getting back to work.
Think hard when you pull that lever Jeff, being a free man is a terrible thing to give up.

And exactly in what context does ultra left winger translate to? I did notice that term didn't seem to bring out the same types of disgust.
But,YOUR interpretation of the term left winger(and right winger) and mine apparently do not mean the same thing.I do believe also that I have said that the ULTRA attitudes on both sides are the cause of the problems we're facing.The politicians are simply looking out for themselves and have forgotten about the people of this country.
Now,you say that I am being paid more,benefitting more and pensioned more than people who are "paying the freight for it".well,that just isn't so.here in Ohio Kasich TRIED to further his ALEC bosses agenda and TRIED to make public sector workers out to be the bad guys and the cause of any "supposed" financial problems we were experiencing.The truth was brought to the surface (i've always enjoyed how the truth comes out in the end!) and it was proven that their claims of the public sector salaries being 41% higher than those in the private sector were nothing more than lies.They never continued to argue the facts about it because they couldn't.
I really think that it's important to tell you that here in Ohio,The OAPFF submitted the necessary changes for our pension system to maintain the 30 year solvency stipulation as required by law,to the legislators so the needed changes could be made.The proposals were purposely tabled by the Republicans simply as a means to be able to say that our system was broken so their fight FOR SB5 would be stronger.Again though,their lies came to surface and end the end they loked very untrustworthy.
I think I should also add something that so many people seem to omit when they're speaking about public sector workers.we are taxpayers too! And you'd have to look for a pretty long time to find someone who hates seeing wasted tax dollars more than I do.Just curious but do you see the ALEC,big business/politician alliance with the same unholiness limelight? In my 22 years in the IAFF and more to the point,on the local level,we have never endorsed a candidate.It simply isn't good practice to do that.we believe that whoever wins we will have to work with them and to endorse one could very easily makes working conditions pretty bad if one were to hold a grudge.But take a look at what the IAFF lobbies for and I believe you'll find that our concerns deal with safety issues.But,just to give you an example of how the argument went here in Ohio we heard that the unions put THEIR GUY into office and then we get to sit across the table during negotiations and get "whatever we want" at the expense of the taxpayers(again,which we are also).The same people said that the public sector workers accounted for just 12% of the total workforce here in Ohio.Now,IF their argument held water HOW could 12% of the workforce get "THEIR GUY" voted into office.the truth is that it just doesn't work that way.
For no more than political reasons they tried to paint us as the bad guys and the public just didn't believe what they were saying.when election day rolled around 63% of the voters said NO to the governors anti public sector workers bill proposal.Just recently our Governor announced that the states "rainy day" fund was about $450 million and that when he took office there was $.87 in it.when the truth of the matter surfaced it was found that he had simply transferred the profits from our lottery into HIS rainy day fund.The lottery profits had,since the lottery began,been earmarked for our schools.This happens AFTER he slashed funding to local municipalities.How's that for honest politics? Thsi guy is 100% for forwarding the ALEC agenda!
And anyone who believes that the fires ervice hasn't taken hits during these tough economic times just doesn't know the truth of the matter.Our staffing level is lower today than it was in 1990 and back then we did fire and rescue duties,today we have added EMS services and the run volumnes has increased each and every year due to our aging society.
Personally,I can't imagine more of the politics that have got us to this point.we had many years of a couple of wars(not saying that we shouldn't have went into Iraq either) but,everyone knows that wars not only cost lives,they cost obscene amounts of money.I also understand that expecting this economy to turn around in a couple short years is nothing more than wishful thinking.
Is Obama perfect? in no way! I didn't agree w/ obamacare as a whole.I do believe that we need some sort of system to make healthcare available to people who need it.Like I told destroyer,Had McCain chose a legitimate vp candidate he would have gotten my vote.

What'll it take to turn things around?that's simple,bring back the jobs that went to foreign countries and demand that politicians look out for OUR citizens and THEN we'll see good times again.