1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Finally got my new T-top made and installed on my boat. Took it out a few times. Boat used to go 44mph (with the old T-top), now it only goes 40mph. Gets about 2.5 miles per gallon. Seems to me that it should go faster than that. I have to keep the trim very low - when I try to raise it, the boat porpoises a lot. I installed one of those anti porpoise things on the motor, but that didn't really help.
HELP !

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Yikes . . . You'll need trim tabs and wedges to get the bow down. I'd recommend selling the Honda and getting different motor. 2.5mpg is horrible for a four stroke . . . I got better fuel economy with my 1988 Yamaha 200hp (right around 3mpg . . . always better than 2.5 even in the worst conditions).

What prop are you spinning? where does the cavitation plate line up in relation to the bottom of the hull?

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Yeah, Jackman...I fear BS is right...something's basicly wrong...I'm gettin' 42 mph outta my Honda 150...your 225 oughtta be SCREAMIN'!! :o....

Pretty sure ya need trim-tabs to start with...then 3 questions:

What's Honda say MAX RPMs are on your motor?

What is your's maxin' out at?

What prop ya got?

BS makes a good point...the 225 is probably too HEAVY for a V-20 to begin with, so if tabs and a new prop don't get ya straightened out, ya might wanna start thinkin' another motor...good news is, ya shouldn't have any probs sellin' that 225 ;) ...

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Post pics. of the motor and hard top. ::)

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Thanks for all your inputs guys! When I first got the boat, it looked like it was sitting low in the back. The 1st thing I did was move the batteries up front (put them in the 1st floor compartment way up front). Also looked like the engine was mounted too high on the transom. I lowered it 2" - that's as low as it could go.
The prop is a SS Honda 14 1/4" X 17 four blade. Call the prop experts and they said it should be ok. Top speed is 41 mph (GPS) at 5300 rpm. The dealer says top RPM for the engine is around 6200. I thought about that, and assumed if I got a prop with less pitch, I would get more rmps, but slower speed. Am I right about that?
I do notice that the boat leans to the left when I am moving out. Also noticed that when I look at the water coming out from under the boat (where the transom meets the water - and the boat is moving out), I see some spray from the transducer (which is normal), but I see little sprays all along the bottom. Is that normal? I would think that that area would be flat and undisturbed. Not sure if I explained that correctly - if not, let me know and I will clarify. The bottom of the boat is painted black.
The bow of the boat does not ride high, seems to ride like it should (judging by other boats that I had).
I can post some pictures, but I don't know how to do that. Can you tell me how?
Just checked the cavitation plate, it is 1/2" below the bottom of the boat.
The boat and motor seem to run fine, it's just that I think it should go faster and get better mileage.
thanks again!
Jack

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Are you giving us the WOT of 5300 trimmed out, or motor trimmed down? I still think that you should be able to twist a 19 or 21 all the way to 6200 w/ that 225 on a V-20. The cavitation plate should be even or slightly above the hull bottom, or higher if the prop will hold on. After checking, your gear ration is 1.86:1, virtually identical to my Merc 150. I'm turning the same 17p prop to 5500 through the same gears. Something ain't right with that 225.

Airslot

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

SOUNDS LIKE THAT BIG MOTOR IS JUST A LITTLE HEAVY FOR THE V20 ;)

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

I keep thinking something isn't right, but I don't know what!! I mean, the thing runs great, and I love it for fishing, but still am wondering what's up with it.
I assume WOT means Wide Open Throttle - when I floor it, it goes 41 mph - I adjust the tilt up and down some and I get 5300 max rpm and 41 mph. Just thought of something: when I push the throttle all the way forward, it bottoms out on the console. Maybe the trhottle has some adjustments that could be made so it could go further?? Don't know, never looked into it - maybe the throttle being pushed all the way forward does not necessarily mean that the motor is wide open.??? Any suggestions on checking that? Guess I could take off the cover and see what's going on under the hood when the throttle is moved.
Sounds like I could move (remount) the engine up 1" to get the cavitation plate 1/4" above the bottom of the boat.
I am really frustrated with this outfit. The guy I bought it from said it does 55 mph! Never saw that - guess I should have tried it out in the water before I bought it.
Oh, well - maybe one of you experts and figure out what's going on.
thanks again,
Jack

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Pull the cowl and the air silencer off the front of the motor and see if the butterflies in the throttle body are opeing all the way. Could well be the problem right there.

Airslot

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

I run a 150 hp Merc with a 17" pitch prop (14 1/2" diameter) and I'm running 41 mph. *I really think at least part of your problem is prop. *When you bought it did the previous owner switch out the prop?

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

I think the prop that came with the boat was what was always used on it. He gave me the original prop (which was the same [14 1/4 X 17]. This prop was an aluminum cast prop. He bought the same prop in a SS Honda - that's what's on the boat.
I will take off the cowl and air silencer and see what the throttle plates are doing as I move the throttle lever.
Keep those ideas coming in - I really appreciate them.

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

That 55 sounds more like what that rig oughtta be doin'...if the throttle lever is being stopped by the console, that should be checked out , too...if the budget will allow for trim-tabs, sounds like you need 'em... ;)...and I think that cavitation plate should be just above the bottom of the boat...you may have dropped it down too far...ya wanna get it as high as it'll go and still BITE...too high, and it'll "BLOW-OUT"(prop comes outta the water) on turns...

Keep postin' and let us know what's goin' on... 8)...

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

I removed the cowl from the motor. I see where the throttle plate is - near the top rear of the engine. Looks like I have to remove a lot of stuff to see inside the throttle plate body. Is this true? Going fishing tomorrow - going to move the motor up 1". I'll let you know what that does.

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

How do I get a picture to show up here?

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Here's a pic of my beast:
http://home.cfl.rr.com/jackman1939/JackV20.jpg
This is a test.

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

NICE LOOKIN' RIG, Jackman..."Bone Crusher"... 8) ...

...you passed the test... ;) ...

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

HEY JACKMAN!!!!

IT LOOKS TO ME THAT 225 HP IS TO MUCH FOR OUR BOATS, IF YOU RUN IT WIDE OPEN THE HULL WILL COME COMPLETE OUT OF THE WATER AND IT WILL PROBABLY RUN SIDEWAYS. I'VE GOT I/O 4.3 MERC (175HP) AND RIGTH SS PROP AND I DO 32-35 MPH.

NOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO RUN IT WOT, DO YOU?
(UNLESS THE USCG IS IN YOUR TAIL)

LESTERUS

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

ANOTHER THING:

THE HULL ARE DESIGNED FOR CERTAIN MAX SPEED, YOU CAN PUT A TURBINE ON IT AND IT WILL STILL GO AT THAT TOP SPEED. 40MPH IS VERY FAST FOR A V-20

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

i wish i had a turbine...i bet i could prove you wrong.

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Well, I never got out fishing the other day - was going to go today - too much rain - BUT we need it.
I did manage to raise the engine - I put it back where it was when I bought the boat - the cavitation plate is about 1/2" above the bottom of the transom. I'll let you know what that did the next time I get out.
I took off the cowl and moved the throttle all the way forward. It touched the glove box. I inspected the throttle assembly and it looked like the throttle was wide open. I determined this by looking at the shaft that the throttle plate is attached to. I tried to turn it a little, but it would not budge.
I'm getting frustrated - I love the boat - put over $4k into it (Ttop, hydraulic steering, windlass etc.).
I was looking into a Wellcraft CCF 238 - that boat would definitely take the 225 Honda.
We'll see.
Thanks for tip in using golf tees to plug holes - worked great. Had 2 screws on the console that were stripped - mixed up some hobby shop 5 minute epoxy, added some ground fiber glass - gooped up the tee and inserted them into the holes - 1/2 hour later I drilled new holes and screwed in the screws. Came out great.

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Finally got out fishing Saturday. The gulf was relatively calm. Had 4 people in the boat. Two sat in front of the center console on a cooler seat (315 and 240 pounds). Ron and I sat in the back (160 and 215 pounds). This was the first time I took the boat out since I remounted the motor on the transom – raised it 2 inches. Full throttle results: 5400 rmp, 41 mph, 2.5 miles per gallon. Caught 2 keeper grouper, some nice Spanish and 3 cobia (all short). Had a great time.

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Good job Jackman it should work out fine for you

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Jackman, was that 5400 trimmed out, neutral trim, or trimmed down/under? Those honda's should be propped to turn a little higher. You might see more speed / rpm's trimmed higher.

Airslot

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Went out fishing Sunday. Had Bobby up front (240 lbs), and Ron and I in the back again (160 and 215). Fairly calm coming in. WOT - 5400 rmp, 43mph, 2.5 mpg - motor trimmed up.
Are you suggesting I get a different prop? The engine should max out at 6200 rpms - I don't get any where near there. I am open for suggestions. Maybe a 15" at 15 pitch?
Help
Caught an assortment for fish - 54" King mackerel, 36" cobia, 24" red, lots of Spanish, and misc others. Had a great time.

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Jackman, I'm at a loss, it just doesn't make sense. I trust your Speed numbers are GPS? 5400 RPM's spinning a 17" pitch prop through the 1.86 : 1 gears gives that 41 mph number on my boat. I still stand by what I said earlier, that motor should be able to spin 21p easy. The only other thing that I can think of is the throttle hitting the dash. I have a local buddy with a 150 honda on his V-20 fisherman and he's turning a 17'p ss prop to 6100 rpm. The Honda's are great motors, no doubt. As for your 2.5 MPG number, thats not bad at WOT for a 225. What does she cruise at? Got any numbers around 4000 rpm's?

Airslot

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

As I remember, at 4000 rpm, she does 30 mph. How do you define cruising speed? I usually go as fast as I can go - depending on conditions.
Speed is by GPS.
I agree - it just doesn't make sense. I was thinking about taking the rig to the scales, and weighing it - just to see what it weighs.
I just have 100 hours on the motor - it is ready for a checkup. Is there any test that the dealer can perform to see if everything is right with it? Is there anything I can do? Maybe check compression or something? I still can not verify that the throttle plate is wide open - don't know what to take off the motor to see inside the throttle body.

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

They can hook you up to the computer at the shop when you go for your 100 hour service. They should be able to tell you if all sensors are funtioning and how much time is spent in each rpm range. As far as determining if you are reaching WOT, try this. Take the cowling off in the driveway. Find where the throttle cable attactches to the linkage on the motor. Advance the throttle to WOT. Make a mark where the linkage is at this point. Return the throttle to neatral. Now, remove the throttle cable from the linkage and rotate the linage by hand. If it turns further by hand, you found your problem. You should be able to do this pretty easy in a hlf hour or less. Keep us in the loop.

Airslot

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

I checked out the throttle today. Removed the cowl and had a friend move the throttle level on the center console. I observed the action at the throttle body near the end of the engine. With the throttle pushed to wide open (at the center console), the lever on the throttle body was bottoming out on the throttle body stop. This verified to me that the throttle movement could go no further and should be wide open.
The dealer I go to here in Florida is a very small one. They do not have a computer that hooks up to the motor. The 100 hour check is changing oil and lower unit fluid and stuff like that.
Do you think I should find a larger dealer that has more equipment?

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Is it possible your hull is waterlogged? Can you take it to a truck scale and get it weighed?

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

I have no idea - right now, anything is possible. I'll go to the weight station and "GIT 'R DONE".
Just had another thought. I have a hell of a time getting the boat all the way up on the trailer.
I back the trailer down into the water and position it so the fenders are just above the water. Then I drive the boat onto the trailer. Once it stops, I have my buddy see if it is far enought up on the trailer - it never is and he signals to me to come forward a foot and a hlf or so. I rev the engine - the boat goes forward some - then won't go any further (and I have the engine really revved up. I have to have him back up the trailer (slowly) - at the same time, I rev the engine and get it further up on the trailer. This process is repeated until my buddy lets me know that the boat hit the front roller. He then pulls the unit out of the water. Upon checking everything (on shore), the boat is 2" away from the front roller. We try and crank it up - it is a ball busting job - that boat just does not want to move on the trailer !!! Just can't get it cranked up all the way to the roller. I thought maybe I had to spray some sort of lubricant on the 2 sliders. They look like 2x6's with a carpet covering.
What happens is when the rig is pulled out of the water, the boat settles on the trailer, and comes to rest 2" from the front roller (which it was hitting before the boat was pulled out).
I will persue the boat being TOO HEAVY aspect of my problem.
thanks God.

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

the back of ur boat is floating in water and when you pull out it changes the yaw of ur boat. as the stern goes down, the bow comes up. if you cant hop on the trailer further out the water you should raise the bunks in the rear, or lower the nose roller. wich ever is easier on ur rig. also, are you absolutely positive you are reading mph and not knots? the throttle stop on the motor you were talkin bout, is it adjustable? ur second trip was 315 pounds lighter, same rpm, gained 2 mph. sounds like ur not at wide open throttle. and with only 100 hours on that motor, should you be?

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

How's she run, smooth or reall smoooth? Any chance she's only firing on 5 holes? Sounds to me like its time to see the tech.

Airslot

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

just a thought here and maybe I'm reachin out a bit,but, in addition to all other possible factors that are making the boat porpoise up and down, not reaching wot rpm, what appears to be low top end [43-44mph w/ a225???] could the t-top be pitched in the wrong direction???? Meaning is it catchin to much air and acting sorta like a parachute??? T-top, lotsa fuel[the tank is kinda aft,isn't it?] a HEAVY motor.....all that is certainly not any help if your looking to keep the bow down. Bottom line is that 225 should get you a least 50-55mph and about 900 more rpms. Airslot brings up a good point as well, I think it may be hard to tell if its not firing on all six, not being to familiar w/ the motor,it may be possible to overlook ???

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Thanks for your comments!
I am going to take the boat to the weigh station today. Just had the 100 hour checkup done on the engine. The mech said it was fine. It's a small dealership, and they don't have any equipment that hooks up to the Hondas to check whatever.
He also checked for full throttle and said it was wide open when the throttle lever (on the center console) was pushed all the way forward. The WOT stop on the throttle body is NOT adjustable - there is just a part on the TB that sticks out, and the rotating mechanism just hits it.
Yes, I am sure the speed is in MPH - I have a speedometer on the console and it reads about the same as the GPS.
I'll see if I can figure out how to disable one cylinder at a time.
The motor starts right up and runs very smoothly (at all speeds).
The mech said he thought it might be the hull??
Will report more after the weigh-in.

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

sounds like you need some trim tabs bruddah.

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

If you don't feel a miss at idle to over 5k rpm, you don't have a miss. *If you're still running a 17" pitch prop on a 225 on a 20' boat, I still feel that's your problem. *The previous owner may have been happy with 42 mph. I just repowered with another 150 hp with a 17" four blade prop and I hit 44.7 mph by gps. *It would be faster by about 2 mph if it was a three blade prop. *As mentioned before, my prop came off my 225 hp that was installed on a 97 sea ray laguna 24' boat. *It was alot heavier than my V20 and it ran at 47 mph. *On the 150 hp I hit 5500 rpm which is the max for my engine. *If you haven't yet, I'd talk to a prop shop before I'd tear into other things. *Do a Yahoo search for honda outboard motor test and click on fiberglass, 225 hp and the lowest pitched prop on a 20' boat was 23 and most with a 25" pitch. Some are go fast boats, but look at the pitchs on the 23's. They aren't 17" props. Just my $.02.

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Just got back from the weigh station. Put the trailer wheels on one part and the front crank wheel on another slab.
Here's what I got:
460 lbs one the front and 4360 on the axel. Total 4820 lbs.
Engine - 610; Ttop & box 130; gas 60 gals @ 6 lbs per = 360; misc gear ~ 200; 2001 galvanized single axel trailer ~ 700. 2000 total lbs (excluding the boat). The boat must weigh ~ 2820 lbs.

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

I think you have water in your hull. maybe waterlogged foam???

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

I'd think the trailer is about 900 and that your hull is fine. Just my .02.

Airslot

Re: 1988 V20 with 225 Honda
 

Even if he estimated 300lbs. under, he's still 500 lbs. more than it should be??? Sounds as if the engine is running right, what else could it be besides extra weight?