Noob Question on Offshore Venture
 

Hi All,
I just started boating last year and the V20 is my first boat. So clearly an inexperienced mariner. I have been mostly run around naragansett bay last year. Couple of questions on the V20.

- Is it a good enough boat to run offshore on perhaps a nice day like to Block Island or so? Anyone from around this area?
- Somewhere on THT I read about the V20 in following seas to go SLOW.. what does that actually mean relative to other boats? If i recall correctly that was posted by someone who was a founder of these forums.

- Also i think I followed the discussion here on trim tabs and would that be a necessary requirement to have a good ride offshore.


Apologies if these are rather naive questions and will appreciate any tips, advice, insight that folks might have for me

Welcome, I too am new to the v20's. But not new to boating. Any time you go offshore you need to be prepared for what may happen. What kind of safety devices will you have on hand? Radio? PFD's? Raft? PLB? Follower boat? I think you can safely go as far as 1/3 your fuel. Any more then that is a risk. Do not forget to bring rations!


Of course that is if your engine is in good condition and runs well.

Personally I wouldn't do it,it's not the boat it's two reasons the weather can change very fast so you have to really keep a eye on the weather and second you only have one motor and if you have a problem with your engine than you have a real problem but if you insist on going off shore try to go with another boat so there are two boats and always tell a family member or a good friend where you will be fishing and what time you plan on returning , make sure your tank is full of gas , there are a lot of fish close to shore I would do at till you really get to know your boat and engine,
Following seas are tough if you go to fast you can put the bow into a wave and to slow is not good too, you have to be very aware and careful I hope I didn't rain on your parade but I would rather you get more experience before you go out far ,
But the V20 is a great boat .

You***8217;d need a weather window of high pressure nearly stationary over mid Atlantic / Cape area, low T storm risk, plus no big offshore storms generating a swell.
This typically happens 1-3x per year when a row boat could be offshore .

However, reality of most conditions in that area, strong tides, currents, fog risk, etc and I wouldnt. I have a 96 V21/ 200 HO / trim tabs, curtains and it***8217;s good all around bay and coastal ocean rig. Its not a boat for 4 foot + seas, nasty inlets, etc......
I run my boat up and down the Jersey coast to around 10 -20 miles offshore max

So short answer is possible but risky.
That area better offshore with bigger rig, true deep V, lots of fuel capacity, radar etc etc .....

First boat. New to boating. Going off shore is not a good plan. I'm considering trying off-shore, but I have more experience... although I'm still learning.

I've also been slowingly outfitting my boat. I have plans/ am in the process if some major refits, including 2 batteries, moving batteries forward and under passenger seat, rewiring *everything*, using marine wire and heat-shrink butt connector with a ratcheting crimper made for those connectors, adding new switch panels with weatherized circuit breakers, plus adding a fuse panel inside the cabin area with automotive style fuses, pre-printed labels, a cover that screws on to the panel, and LED lights that illuminate when a fuse is blown. I'm not certain, but I *think* if your battery is mounted on the floor in the bilge area, if your boat really fills up with salt water, you *might* have big problem. Salt water can conduct, and if your batteries are fully immersed in the salt water, I'm not sure how well your electrical system with function. If the engine stalls, and you're bilge pumps can't run, you're toast... in fact, wihout power, your marine radios won't work either.

I don't know if a properly installed battery box would help or not. They aren't completely sealed... they have vents, so I assume that they would eventually let the salt water in, but I don't know if that's true, or how quickly. Moreover... is your battery in a battery box, is it secured, is the lid on it, and is the strap tightened?

That's part of why I'm planning to relocate my battery and add a 2nd... so that they are are more easily accessible and in a location where it would take MUCH more water before they became fully immersed.

What about your bilge pump. Does it work? Do you have *two* of them connected and both working? I'm serious about that. You want two bilge pumps, in case one fails in a situation where you've taken on water.... and the smaller the boat the *bigger* the pump... it's simple... you can't hold as much water as a larger boat before you get in serious trouble, so if you take on water somehow, you want to get it out *now*.

I have 2 VHF radios, and 2 antennas -- although VHF range can run from 5 miles to 20 miles... and varies (I *could* be much more to reach a shore station mounted very high... but you can't count on it for off-shore)... so I've added a HF / MF marine band and ham band radio (still need to install)... and got the appropriate marine station, marine radio operator and HAM General class licenses... so once I have this installed and working, I can reach stations from hundreds to thousands of miles away.

I've added a radar tower... I'm in the process of selecting my radar... I've gotten a mustang auto-inflatable life vest --- it's one that I'll actually wear.

You get the idea. If you go off shore, you need experience (I'm gaining it... but I *have* been a fresh water boater for 40+ years), you need to check the weather. You need equipment. You need to make sure your boat is in good shape and ready, and **you want a buddy in another boat to go with you**.

Some people carry satellite phones (expensive). Some people look at 2 way devices like delorme in-touch devices. Personal locator beacons are a good investment. For $400 or so, if you have a true emergency, you can summon help, and the beacon will update searchers on your position.

In short, the prospect of finding yourself stranded 30, 40, 50 miles or more off shore should give you pause.

The prospect of ending up drifting in the ocean that far out, could very well be fatal... even with lots of preparation. Hypothermia is a real risk, so even if you are eventually rescued it could be too late.

Do your homework, and I would say *don't* go off shore this season or next. Learn, prepare, add trim tabs (in my opinion... if it gets rough you really do NEED them)... I've been out in 4-5 foot seas, and without the trim tabs, she would have pounded like crazy, and it would have been hard to make much headway. Pounding isn't just uncomfortable, it can also shake things loose, break things, crack your hull, etc.

Hopefully this post has given you some good things to consider. I can't say if / when or how far I'll go offshore myself, but it is a hope of mine, and I'm enjoying the process of upgrading and outfitting my boat in case I do.

Lastly, I'm not sure where you live, but on the east coast, near Cape Hatteras, NC and near Ft. Lauderdale, FL or Miami FL, you can get to true blue water MUCH closer to shore than at other parts of the east coast. Still... it's not to be taken lightly.... and I have *no* local knowledge or experience, but I know that their are dangers and much to learn.

Look for youtube videos on "haul over inlet".... for example, and you can see i) How big many of the boats are that go through that inlet.... 30 to 40 footers are common -- and also ii) how many boats get into trouble.... especially some of the smaller ones.


One last anecdote to give you pause. I was near VA beach last year, in the new-to-me V20. I was in back waters that were protected, but the tides still run strong.

Suddenly, my boat stalled and wouldn't re-start. There were many boats around, so someone immediately offered me a tow.

Given the tides, I was drifting quickly... so I really didn't have much time before I could have been in trouble... like drifting over some very shallow parts of the water in the middle, where I probably would have run aground.... so I took the tow, figuring that with those types of tides, it wasn't the time trouble shoot.

The group towed me to a fuel dock near by. I began to trouble shoot... after about 30 minutes, I discovered that the fuel hose had come disconnected from the motor. I guess, given that it is at least 18 years old, that the force of the spring that secures it came loose. Still.... if that had failed while I was going out of the main inlet, it could have ended *very* badly. The currents are *strong* and with no propulsion, you can easily be grounded, bang into the concrete bridge pilings, forced on rocks, etc.

So I've purchased new connectors, and will replace the fuel hose too while I'm at it.

I also read that it's good to have an anchor at the ready that can be easily deployed for just these types of situations. I've gotten a rocna anchor, and am working on adding a bow pulpit and bow roller.... plus I have about 15 feet of anchor chain.... the idea is that the anchor will be stored on the roller, ready to deploy quickly in case it's needed.

Now, if you're off shore... maybe it'll be so deep that it would be hard or impractical to anchor... or maybe not... but at least if you get into shallower water and their are dangers, you might just save yourself by having that anchor set up and ready to deploy quickly.

There is a lot to think about. Look at some navigation charts, and look at *all* of the wrecks that are shown. Each one of those is probably someone who had trouble and sank. Who knows if souls were lost... but you should let that give you some pause.

Don't be scared, but don't be unprepared either. Learn. Gain experience. Maybe even take some classes offered by the local power squadron. Offshore is no joke, and even inshore can be perilous.

Be safe and have fun!

Replies have you selling the V and buying a 60 foot sportfishing boat ?

to Block island from where?

its only 12 miles from point judith inlet to great salt pond.

a seaworthy v20 in good weather with a seaworthy captain would have no problem with that

do you have a seaworthy v20 and are you a seaworthy captain?

if so then all you need is the right weather for a round trip.

As soon as I find that $500K in cash that I buried in my backyard!


i know it's there somewhere... I'll just have to keep digging! :-)

I'm not familiar with the area.

I agree that a 12 mile trip is very doable... as you say, as long as the boat and the captain are seaworthy, and the weather cooperates.

Last summer, I took my maiden voyage on Fish Beware from Plymouth harbor to Race Point, to Province town and back to plymouth. It was about 60 miles round trip, but I stopped to refuel in Provincetown - only because the boat was new to me, so I had no experience with fuel burn or accuracy of the fuel gauge.

Brave or dumb... I don't know, but it was summer, and those waters are fairly regularly travelled, so felt I could summon help if needed.

O.P. Make sure you have a marine VHF radio and it works... a full sized one, not just a hand held.

A good GPS with chart plotter too.... I'm assuming you have one.

Since you said you're a newbie, are you familiar with channel markers, what they mean, how to find them on your GPS and/or charts, and also at night?

Those are definitely some of the basics.... but if you feel comfortable, I wouldn't sweat a 12 mile ride.... that's not what I think of as "off shore".

Been digging and planting in my yard havent found the cash yet either :)

I guess we lost the OP.

O.P. -- hopefully these replies are helpful!

So, for anyone interested in my paranoia about boat batteries getting submerged in salt water, I found this thread on a another forum.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/boating...saltwater.html

Based on that, it sounds like you don't want your batteries to get wet, especially with salt water, but if you have them in a battery box, with the cover on and use the strap to secure the cover, I think you should be OK, even if you were to say... stuff the bow and take on a lot of water sea water.

It sounds like your batteries should still function well enough that you can run the engine and your bilge pumps.

That's great news to me. I may reconsider my plans to relocate my batteries towards the bow. The weight transfer would be good, but the long battery runs to the motor are a concern, as is the cost of good wiring.

Just an FYI for anyone who was concerned, like me.

It seems that salt water on the top of your battery will cause it to discharge, but it sounds like it won't conduct soooo quickly as to rapidly and violently discharge the battery the same way you would get if you shorted the two terminals together with a thick battery cable.

No you didn't lose me. Just have a couple of tykes 5 & 3 that makes responding not too easy :fam:
First of all, I think all these responses and suggestions were really gratifying!!! This is a great community.


I will try to work my way through all those great responses and suggestions,so this might be a long post:

1. The plan was to go to Block island which is about 9 miles from Point Judith @skunkboat. I live near Jamestown which is about 10 miles north on the Bay, so i would probably refuel anyways at Point Judith just to be safe. I do know a couple of experienced folks, my neighbors, who have been out to block Island, usually in about 25+ foot boats.
2. As safety first, I think I would probably have them come with me for two or three trips. They are really nice and have said they will. One is a captain who transports boats for the rich folks.
3. I guess I would want to clarify first and Foremost what i mean by offshore and this will also probably highlight my "noobiness" :) .. Don't plan on going out very far .. just enough so that I am on open water just for the experience. Would like the experience of riding the swells, I am not sure if I am getting that in the bay.
4. @bgreene I am looking at a second one perhaps 25ft ( at the risk of getting killed by the wife) maybe in a few years. But the V20 is such a good size for both the bay and we go to a lake in upstate New york and its trailerable by my Honda Pilot, so i don't have to drop another 15K for a pickup.
5. I am not sure if this makes sense, I enjoy driving a boat, almost like driving on a winding road, there's an aspect of timing to it that i really enjoy.
6. @bgreene and @pjbrownva.. regarding seaworthyness I am not quite sure, it hasn't sunk yet :) .. its a 1990 V20.. The guy who sold it to me said they used to fish out of Martha's vineyard and the Elizabethen Islands out of Westport MA.
7. @pjbrownva ... you really provided some good insights on safety and the equipment etc. I have some of them in the works and some i had not thought of such as dual bilge pumps, batteries etc. I need to work more on my radio stuff for sure

Also thanks to the suggestions from the others. @pjbrownva I have been trolling the haulover inlet videos all through the winter and to me the striking part is that its the captain not the boat that matters ( there is that one guy with the 23ft whaler or something who makes it look easy).


To me I would like to get into some blue water as well, in addition to running around the bay with the kids and obviously I have tons to learn and hope to keep doing it for the future.



@pjbrownva and @bgreene you menetioned 4-5ft seas.. even 4-5 swells with a long period... Are those doable in a V20 with trim tabs? I am thinking of getting the electric ones?

PJBrownva I had that happen once where the fuel line disconnected from the motor. The only difference is I WAS going out of Hatteras inlet in my V21. I hit the first set of waves and realized I was lucky to be alive so I spun it around and headed back to the dock. We pulled the boat out and waited for the weather to calm down. A couple hours later we decided it was time to fish back in the soudn vs. ocean due to the forecast. Put the boat in, I went to squeeze the primer and could hear "water" squirting and the bulb would not prime. Then we smelled gas! I figure that when we hit that first big set of waves the boat slammed down on the back side so hard that it knocked the fuel line off - or almost (only thing holding it on the nipple is a small zip tie). Later that day the coast guard flew over and we later heard 3 guys in a Grady didn't fare so well going out the same inlet. One older fella had a cardiac situation hanging onto the turtled boat while another guy actually swam to shore to call for help. When the guy got to shore he thought he was on Hatteras Island but in reality he had swam to Okracoke Island just south of Hatteras. They all made it but were very lucky to escape with their lives. To say the least I was extremely lucky to make it out of that situation and learned a lot from it. Always best to play it safe on the water where ANYTHING can happen.

I don't know everything and have done very little salt water boating but I'll say this... IF YOU were qualified, you wouldn't be asking if the boat was....

Make friends with someone experienced and toss him $100 towards gas for a chance to ride along every chance you get....

Been out regularly 45+ miles, furthest was 75 (won't do 80 again). Epirb, dual fixed mount radios, quality life preservers (kind that keep your head up out of the water when you're unconscious), a floating ditch bag with rope/carabiners/water/sunscreen/flares/handheld radio and of course marine towing insurance.

Always best if you have another boat with you. Someone said high pressure which gives more confidence for stable weather pattern and I agree with that. Still, anything can happen. If you have enough patience and fuel I feel the boat can handle more than I'm willing to handle in it.

That said, the time I went out 75 miles it was a nice day until it was time to head back. The wind picked up from the north which made for a slow ride. The main problem I had was fuel. I felt if I just tried to plow through it vs. planing off I would most certainly run out. So I kept it planed which made for a miserable ride for all aboard. I had the enclosure ON and was somehow taking buckets to the face THROUGH the front enclosure/windshield. About four hours worth of that......needless to say I was happy to get home!

And that's why I don't venture offshore in the old Pipe Dream. Offshore for me is east which means I have to head west to get home, and nearly all our weather comes from the west. Especially the storms.

Now when I'm down in the Keys that's another matter entirely.

Thanks for sharing the experience. It’s is good to know that the boat can handle it that far offshore. I do not think I would venture that far out any time in the far future, but I would like to eventually become a bit more experienced in going offshore a little ways maybe 5-10 miles. Depending on how well the boat holds up I plan to have some more tools to help like radar etc first before I try. But I was just curious about how folks felt the boat did in open waters as most of the stuff I read about claims this is a bay boat.

Just pay attention to the local weather report. If there are small craft warnings out then it's time for rivers, lakes and (some) bays. But if the weather is calm and the waves are small this boat does very well in the open ocean. Like others have said, just keep a weather eye out and you'll do fine.

KEEP YOUR VHF RADIO ON AND TUNED TO ONE OF THE WEATHER CHANNELS ALL THE TIME.

Oh yeah.... I buried some cash in *your* back yard too. Lemme know when you find it, and I'll give you half. :oh:

Great to still have you around. I can't recommend trim tabs highly enough. The top two manufacturers are Bennett and Lenco. My impression is Lenco's strength is electric tabs and Bennett's strength is hydraulic.

I seems that for long term reliability, hydraulic is better -- salt water tends to destroy electrical things... so keeping your electric motor in a hydraulic pump far from the water is probably a better design than trying to have an electric motor sealed within the trim tab cylinder itself.

I'm thrilled with my Bennett M120 sport tabs.

I got the system with a full lighted digital display and also their "auto trim pro" ("ATP") feature that is kind of like cruise control for trim tabs.

Attachment 8174

Truth be told, I can't get the to work properly on my V20 without a fancy "NMEA 2000" network, In March 2020, Bennett redesigned the product to accept a GPS signal over an NMEA 2000 network, and -- reading between the lines -- I presume that redesigned was done because the old design must have had some issues.

I'm confident that once I hook up the system to the "NMEA 2000" connection from my new GPS, and initialize everything that it'll work just fine.... and the version that I got *does* have the change from March 2020.

Price-wise, I found that Hodges Marine offered a *much* better price than many other sellers.
Attachment 8175

So if it's in the budget, and it appeals to you, I'd say get that system...

I also bought a lowrance NMEA network starter kit for $90. It's not that complicated... but you do have to learn a bit, and get the right stuff if you don't already have it.



Ouch! Lesson learned. I have the parts, and *will* be replacing the connector and fuel hoses... since the hoses are old and dried and could also fail. I'll have to see if a new connector is enough, or if there is some way to put on a small zip tie for extra piece-of-mind. I never even thought about a fuel hose connector coming off... but I learned that if it happens at the wrong time... and if you aren't trained to check the connector fairly promptly, you could have problems. I'm glad you and the V20 are still around to tell the tale. Some inlets and/or channels can be pretty bad.... and I've heard that the one by Hatteras fits that description. I haven't gone in an out of Ocean City, MD yet, but I think that can be bad at times too. I know I have more to learn, but I *will* be giving it a try. If there are boats at the launch that seem experienced, I might ask one of the captains for a few tips and/or if they would keep an eye on me and can we go out together.... also, if it looks bad or I'm uncomfortable, I'll just skip, or hang out for an hour or more and see if the conditions change. In time I'm sure that I'll learn more, including which tides are best, which aren't, etc.


Wow! Great advice, and equipment info. I get about 4 MPG, so my range-to-empty is about 240 miles... that should give me up to 80 miles using the rule of thirds... but I don't plan to ever be 80 miles off shore! I have full enclosures too... but I guess as you point out, sometimes they help but aren't enough. I've never seen anyone wearing goggles -- like ski googles or something, but I wonder if I should keep 'em on the boat -- seriously. Not that I *plan* to need them, but maybe if I ever do, I'll be happy to have them. I'm definitely hoping to do some true blue water adventures eventually, but I will build up to it, and probably go with a buddy boat.

Question -- someone mentioned the keys being calmer than up north.
In general, in your area, would you say that the ocean and off shore is comparable to the ocean off long island or off cape-cod, or does it tend to be calmer where you are. I know you can't OVER GENERALIZE -- for example, near Cape Cod their are places near Nantucket or the Monomoy shoals that are known for being especially rough -- so I don't plan to go there... or off ocean city (I think) there is an area called the "rips" that has good fishing, but can also be rough... while I don't know where they are... I don't plan to go there any time soon... I'm not experienced enough. But I am wondering, for those who say that they go 40 or 50 miles off shore without concern, are you in a part of the ocean that tends to be more calm than the North Atlantic. I'd hate to go off shore in my areas, based off of experiences from people who boat in generally calmer waters.

I've heard that the keys tend to be calmer... debunking my prior belief that if the CIA used this hull as part of the bay of pigs invasion to shuttle frogmen 90 miles from the keys to the Cuba... if it was good enough for them, then it's good enough for me! Just recently, someone told me that the keys tend to be much calmer, as is the trip to cuba from their. I'll confess, I have no knowledge, so I'm just trying to learn.

5 to 10 miles should be fine. That's not really a big concern... with the disclaimer that even 1 mile can be dangerous if the captain and boat aren't prepared, you don't have the right equipment in good condition, the conditions are or turn really bad, or you don't know what you're doing. But, disclaimer aside, if you practice good seamanship and everything that it entails... then you should be fine.

I just recently learned the value of a check list. Seriously. Pilots use them for planes... they are required. I took a trip out of town... towed the boat 4 hours and booked 3 days at a camp ground. I dropped the boat in the water, and the engine wouldn't crank. I tried my backup battery... no luck. I went to my external booster / jumper pack, an somehow it had gotten wet and was toast. My friend lent me a battery he had... no luck. I put the boat back on the trailer and fished on his boat. The starter motor was gummed up... I"m good now, but lesson learned. I will make and always use a written checklist. I should have check the battery charge levels. Bumped the engine, just to see that she engaged and cranked, verified that my booster pack was good and at 100%, etc before I even left town pulling the boat.

Sooo many issues can be avoided by having a pilot-like routine that you follow.


Well.... I hit my 30,000 word limit for today. :embarsed: So I'll let someone else respond!

Cheers!

-Philip