What would make a V ..." better " ?
 

Since the V20/V21 layout may be the most useful of any boat, what would make it better ?

I'd offer up hull modification to shape it like the original Moesly 21'.
Make it more of a blue water deep V that nearly won't pound for its size.

Next, beef up the construction from fine as is........to super tough enough to blast through rough seas everyday / all day without any risk of build failure.

Transom modification to take up to 250 hp ...maybe 300 hp.

Fuel tank - increase size to hold 100 gallons......maybe that's too much weight...

Hull -unsinkable with water tight foam sections and drainage

Love this idea!

I think I would do a few different things

1. Get rid of all the wood in the boat!!

2. really like the unsinkable idea.

3. have a model the adds 3-5 inches of height/headroom to the cuddy

4. have a 25 foot version with the hull deeper and a little more beam. The top side kind of like that of a John Allmand 23.:love::love:
http://i.ushipcdn.com/resize.php?pat...pg&w=270&h=210

Definitely the added headroom (and in the longer version, a little longer cuddly). Would very much prefer deck draining through scuppers directly through the transom for wash down when fishing.

remove all wood, use coosa.
Bond the deck to stringers better than the half assed way they did it.
V21 style transom.
Ditch the rod box inserts, glass the deck to the gunnel, finish the inside of the hull there with gelcoat, widen the gunnels in that area to accommodate angled flush rod holders.

big livewell that drains overboard. somewhere where it does't take up deck space.

Flushmount access ports to fuel tank because the ones that stick up are BS.
Provide a bilge under the tank that is bigger than a 1" pvc pipe.

Really dreaming...
Center the helm on the cuddy version.
design cuddy for easy access storage because its never going to be useful for a human being without changing the look of the boat.
In the process, lose the sliding hatch.
maybe a side console version, centered helm with walkthru window on port side to a flat deck forward to the anchor and storage in front of the helm.... picture bow that is half cuddy/half centerconsole.

Keep the hull shape and profile of the cuddy because it is beautiful:love:

X2 and larger fuel cell. 100 gals would be nice.
How about a OEM hard top option? That would be cool also....

Really dreaming; a 23' or 25'er...

No wood, easier access to rigging, better fit and finish below decks, factory in hull trim tabs, cuddy acces from portside, ladder going forward through windsheild to cuddy top/forward deck eliminating sliding hatch, raise the deck an inch with aft bulkhead deck drains to the splshwell with oversized scuppers, eliminate any empty dead spaces, oversized 8 or 10 inch cleats, strech her out to 23 feet.

I'd really like to build it...a new V that honors the look of the old V, but with all the enhansements to make it a battle wagon.

All we need is.......
Big start up money....with no profit guarantee
Facility.....................with environmental approvals
Marine engineer.........with proper experience to design it
Builders....................experienced to assemble to spec
Motor Options............I'd pick Evinrude G2 and Yami 4 stroke..200 / 250
Hull mold...................similar to Regulator / orig Moseley 21' w 24 degree

Test conditions.....varied ocean running hard in 2,3,4' & 5' chop to blast around for hours
to find out what comes loose....then re engineer till the whole rig is a tank, and tougher than
the user would need.
Then market it at the boat shows with big screen rough water video as the true all purpose trailerable boat for family and serious fishing.
Now hooooo's got the money to blow...I mean invest ??

5' chop.......thats pretty snotty.

Sure.....got to take a few crests over the bow to know how it drains and if windshield leaks .
Then we take it to the Flemish Cap....in January to catch giant cod and halibut.

The 26' Surfhunter would pretty much address any issues.
Now I would need to hit the lotto to buy one but it's nice to dream.

http://huntyachts.com/coastal-series...er/harrier-26/

Hunter 26.......sure has the lines, very pretty......but too pretty to be the hard core fishing rig we're after. Guess I'll have to find a " silent partner " who wants to invest the $ millions, and not care about a profit !! Just make an amazing boat offering. Ha ha.

^^^^ I agree with inaforty

BG - Physics will not allow humans in a 23ft boat to withstand hours of 4ft chop at any kind of speed. It's just NOT happening. In my opinion, the Regulator 23 isn't anything special. I've fished next to one several times in real rough conditions. The 23 seacraft will do anything the regulator 23 will do.

Here's Winn Willards answer Just for you . . . go to 13:23 (Keep in mind you they designed legendary single engine boats like the Conch 27).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-RbCLrN_Sk

Also at 7:11 you can see a picture of Gypsy Girl that inspired ray hunt to make a smaller version (aka. Hiliner 222 gypsy).

FYI - Steve Loui who has millions of dollars at his disposal recently spent close to 10 million dollars of Navatek's money (defense contractor - one of steven loui's companies) on this exact task of developing the ultimate small boat deep V. They started with the 25 seacraft seafari hull (26 degree deadrise). After the Navatek SAM project was completed, they made a recreational boat company called seablade.

http://www.neboatworks.com/news61-sea-blade-35.php

http://www.midweek.com/steven-loui/

http://www.midweek.com/wp-content/ga...landrews-2.jpg

21 seacraft compared to the 25 seacraft seafari hull using photomodeler (from Navatek Ltd.)

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/...7/21_vs_25.jpg

Shrimp.....perhaps you received my PM on Classic Seacraft....

4' chop....purpose would be to TEST a 23' to a good beating..to sort out any weak points.
We that have gone to sea for years know that's not meant for little boats.......

Couple of guys I know that run 23' Sceptre's report a nice ride, but teeth jarring in quartering chop.

As you likely know, I'm a fan of the original Moesly 21' hull, which I believe would be good platform to re create a new V21'.....or V23' cuddy.

BG - Navatek spent years and millions of dollars studying the 21 and 25. I know you've been talking about the unicorn trailerable 21/23 for a full decade now. People with unlimited resources, teams of high level engineers with years of education and experience have set out to achieve the same desired goal. You might want learn who they are and understand the lessons they learned before you set out on your own quest. You're not going to shoot from the hip with zero skills using someone elses money and nail the design.

Someone is already splashing the original 21 hull making a mold.

If you want a good looking design on very functional hull . . . take a look at 20 seafari cabin on the original 21 hull. This is Carl Moesly's daughter Carla mocking it up.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...r/P1010044.jpg

It's surprising that none of them have given you a ride on their boats. Also you might want to mention to your "friends" that they can roll the v into the seas using trim tabs.

Have you ever seen a 21 seacraft?

Looking at the pics of the Seablade I have to say truthfully that I'm not in the least impressed. First, it's an ugly boat. Second, it's a 35' boat. That's NOT in the same class as a 20 or a 21 or a 23 or even a 25. Third, it's powered by two (2) 300 hp engines. Good for ppl that can afford that kind of power, but realistically it's way outta the league of most of the people that are driving 20-25's. As far as the hull itself goes, whoopti-do, it can hit 60. Hell with twin 300's I can strap them on just about any 20-25 that can hold them and hit that speed with ease. Then there's the mention in the article about how the boat is really 3 hulls... a main hull and 2 side hulls called Amas'. The article goes on to state that " The stabilized monohull design has a slender center hull with two stabilizing amas, which form entrapment tunnels between the main hull and amas." I wonder if they ever looked at the Wellcraft Airslot which did almost exactly the same thing. (Except they called the outside hulls "Sponsons"). I can tell you from recent experience with my little 16.5 Airslot that it's remarkably stable at speeds and I can handle chops and snot a lot larger than anything I ever could in some of my previous boats of that size. Granted, it's never going to be able to handle 4' chop, but then again, it's only 16.5 feet long verses the 35 foot length for the Seablade.
Now, to get back to the title of this thread which is "What would make a V better" ....... Certainly making it into a 35 footer and adding twin 300 hp engines would make it a better boat... but then again, it would also make it into something other than a V20/21. So lets start being realistic about what would make a V a better boat. Some of the answers, like getting rid of the wood, taller cuddy, etc are pretty good. Lets all try to stay on subject and not go off on wild a$$ daydreams, shall we?

Exactly........

Shrimpy - don't go getting all serious now, we're mostly just playing here...
Penalty for getting all cramped up is you'll be assigned to a 17' Bayliner...with Force outboard.

Seacraft Sceptre is classic style, big brother to the V boats.....still on my wish list, but very hard to find without needing restore because people rarely sell.

On another note.
Have any of you taking a ride in a larger RIB? We have a 15' HIB rib that has a Hunt hull and it's amazing how much rough water the little 15' rib will cut through. I can only imagine what a 30 footer would handle like.

I think bs is referring to the 19' al boat in the second article. Wish they had shown a better picture of it.

I guess we all have different ideas of wave measurement. Here on The gulf coast, our waves are primarily wind driven. When its 2-3 here, it's miserable. I cant imagine going out in a 20 ft boat in 3-5. The only time we get a nice smooth ground swell in during a hurricane.

Use google ;) How lazy and judgemental can you possibly be? You can't even type in http://sea-blade.com/ to see there are 16 - 40 versions. no one ever said function and performance were good looking (evinrude g2). It's time to close your mouth and open your minds. The hull might resemble an airslot, but all that means is that dick cole was onto something :) Just b/c they look the same to you, does not mean they are remotely similar.

BG - Take note of Destroyers comments and understand that people buy boats on their looks (what looks good to them . . . shiny gelcoat, traditional shape and style) and NOT their performance. People are lazy by nature, so if there's a HUGE education component to selling, the masses aren't going to be swayed (just cause one boats ride is marginally better than another). The marketing expense to educate buyers is going to bankrupt the unicorn boat company.

http://sea-blade.com/images/sea-blad...crc=3901253816


Here is Kama II which is just one of the experimental 25 Seacrafts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln3Y1A_RNCM

Exactly like an airslot :)

http://sea-blade.com/sea-blade-hull-...seakindly.html

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/...7/seablade.jpg

[QUOTE=bigshrimpin;233853]Use google ;) How lazy and judgemental can you possibly be? You can't even type in http://sea-blade.com/ to see there are 16 - 40 versions. no one ever said function and performance were good looking (evinrude g2). It's time to close your mouth and open your minds. The hull might resemble an airslot, but all that means is that dick cole was onto something :) Just b/c they look the same to you, does not mean they are remotely similar.

http://sea-blade.com/images/sea-blad...crc=3901253816

Oh really? So now I'm lazy and judgmental because I followed YOUR link and read the blurb that YOU posted? I was commenting on what you were saying, not about anything else. Not about how many different styles they tried before they came up with the Seablade, not on how many different lengths the Seablade comes in, not anything except what YOU posted and the link that YOU provided. So if following YOUR post's link makes me lazy and judgmental then so be it. Personally I thought it just made me polite to follow your link. As to my mind being closed and my mouth being open, may I remind you that I was merely trying to get this thread BACK onto it's track, after it had become derailed with this silly and useless chatter about other boats. So let's stop with the sarcasm and the insults. You lower yourself when you engage in such drivel. STAY ON TOPIC OR RISK HAVING THIS THREAD DELETED.

PS... and if you look at the pics that you posted of the various Seablade styles, in the top left corner is a pic of the 16 foot Seablade. Compare that pic to the pics of my 16.5 foot Airslot that I posted in "A funny thing happened" here in the General section of the Forums. Tell me that they don't look almost exactly alike. Do an internet search for pics of a 24 foot Airslot ... same thing. So that proves that Richard Cole was onto something when he designed the Airslot and Steve Loui just wasted 10 million dollars trying to improve on it. Understand, I'm not saying that the Seablade isn't a good design using modern materials. It is. I'm just saying that credit for the hull design should be given to the person that actually designed it way back in the 60's....Richard Cole.

Shrimp - did you jump in based on my private message to you on the Seacraft site sharing that we're talking V boat related improvement ideas ?
This posting is for fun.....ideas.......and sharing among boat lovers, and V enthusiasts.
Be a part of it, but suggest you don't take it all too seriously.......or communicate annoyance to members.

In addition, member Destroyer's been a friend to all on this site, willing to share expertise, and helpful whenever asked. Let's respect each other's opinions.

It's in FUN......let's keep it this way. I believe you have a fair amount of boat experience to share.

Oh yeh, one more thing.........I really like the looks of the Moesly 21' huge hull and massive deep bow design. As I've written, hard to believe this hull hasn't been put back into service, but you indicate someone's finally making a new mold. That's part of the concept of this original thread......how to take the classic good looks of the Wellcraft V, and make it better. The V looks like a boat, not a plastic mold. Turning it into a battle wagon without any weak points would be like a super model that can't get enough sex.........oooopssss.......did I just write that ???? edit ! edit !

thats one ugly freakin boat

At the risk of being burned at the stake for getting back on track....

Improving the V-20...

1. Raise the front deck to the bottom of the windshield glass
2. Raise the entire hull/rubrail in the bow by the same amount for less water over the bow
3. Eliminate the bow rail
4. Stretch to a full 8'6" beam
5. Widen bow slider/windshield walkthru by 4-6 inches
6. Anchor locker accessible from front deck
7. Raise windshield 2-3 inches
8. Full transom with outboard bracket and integrated swim step (no euro-trash transoms though)
9. Use Line-X instead of carpet in cabin
10. PVC liners where rod racks go into hull
11. Fold down bench seat across stern
12. Foam sandwich construction like a whaler

Just my thoughts from almost 30 years fishing one....:sun:

I bet you get free bowl o' soup with that...looks good on you tho...