Newb Questions About 1984 Wellcraft Sportsman 228
 

Hi everyone!

New member (though I've been lurking & learning for a bit here and on Hull Truth) and new to boating. I just bought my first boat, a semi-project '84 Wellcraft Sportsman 228 (I say semi-project because she runs, but I need to do some work). She sports a rebuilt Evinrude 225 on a bracket and Lenco trim tabs.

I'm looking to learn all I can about her, and have some questions (one is kinda crazy) to ask:

1. I can't find any catalog information on the 1984, but a decent amount on the 1985. Are they essentially the same boat? What improvements/modifications are there from one model year to the next?

2. (Insert crazy question here) Looking at the pic below of the dash panel, I'm trying to identify the switches. I know and have tested the spotlight and controls, I'm not sure the electric primer works and one switch is for the side lights...but how do I determine which switch is for the bilge (especially if the bilge is inoperable)?

http://www.vsu.edu/files/images/univ...r-12/dash.jpeg

There probably weren't any major changes hull wise between the model years. There probably were some changes to accessories though as Wellcraft shopped different suppliers, and rigged different boats with different options, not to mention all the different changes made by previous owners in the last 31 years.

A test light and multi meter are in your future. If you get the Sunday paper Harbor Frieght usually runs an ad where they give them away with a coupon. Or if you're wanting to know right now, switch everything on and off and stick your head down in the bilge and listen for it, a light humming sound. If it doesn't work, it could likely be a broken wire or loose connection. Eliminate that possibility first before you go shopping at West Marine.

Welcome!! I always liked the Sportsmans and Offshore models. The 228 seems like it would be a lot more trailer friendly than the 248/250 models.

Thanks bradford!

I've been eyeballing Wellcrafts for a while, and when I realized that a WA better suited my needs...here I am.

I will get the multimeter and test light this weekend. I've been reading everything I can, and just ordered the 12v Bible.

Super stoked!

Welcome. Those switches look a little tired from long service - could be bad inside from corrosion but probably one of the things Bradford said. You can check the switch for continuity with your new multimeter. Others may have other suggestions about connections when you are doing wiring, but I suggest spending a few bucks to get a good crimper and some heat shrink connectors (after crimping, you hit them with a heat gun to shrink the plastic protective sleeve and activate some goo inside that seals it tight).

Something else I did on my '85 was to remove any wiring I found to not be doing anything. On a boat that age, there have probably been several generations of electronics and on mine, thy left the old wiring - on separate occassions I pulled out a 5 gal. bucket pretty near full of unused wire. It makes it MUCH easier to trace out the working wiring, but if in doubt, don't take it out.

A suggestion about Harbor freight - pay for the extended warranty (their prices will still be unbelievably cheap and their standard warranty is short). You can get a heat gun there cheap too.

Like the others, allow me to say welcome to the site. Always happy to see a new member. As to your (not) so crazy question, I'm going to go out on a limb here. You asked which switch in the picture is for the bilge pump. My (semi-educated) guess is that it's the one directly below the 12V cigarette lighter outlet. My reasoning is this: Most bilge pumps have 2 settings, manual and automatic. Plus most setups have a light to indicate when the pump is running. For that reason most bilge pump switches are independent of the rest of the switches for horn, lights, etc. The only switch configuration that seems to fit that bill is the one I mentioned. So that would be my guess.

See if the switch moves both up and down, and also see if that light next to it comes on in either direction.
The manual switch is for when you want to override the automatic for whatever reason.
The automatic position goes through a float switch located in the bilge near the bilge pump and turns the pump on or off depending on the level of water in the bilge.

And just remember that due to corrosion, broken wire, etc. even though you may have correctly identified the switch, the pump may not work.

You guys have no idea how much I'm appreciating this feedback and the welcome!

scook: I'm eventually going to do a wiring diagram for her...I'll start in a few weeks, but probably won't finish until a few weeks after. The wiring is a Charlie Foxtrot, so hopefully I can cull out some old stuff like you advised. I will absolutely not remove anything until I'm sure it's without a source/load.

Destroyer: That switch is the only thing I know for sure, and it's to control the spotlight....switches on, and the silver knob turns the light. I still appreciate your guess! From what I've read, and like you said, most bilges have the auto/off/manual switch, and that's what is concerning me: I don't see anything like that on the dash...and I have two bilges.

Maybe the bilges are straight auto or manual? Is that possible?

Welcome!! Now get a trash barrale, and wire cutters! trash all on that tired dash and start new! Then you will know what is for what and were they go! If something is not working you will be able to fix it on the spot cause you did it! Been there done that.

anything is possible... to be honest you absolutely HAVE to go through all of it to have a reliable system... there is no telling what king of foxtrot bravo sierra the previous owners may have put into her.... Example on my Monte-Carlo I found no less than 12 butt connectors 20 feet of electrical tape and 6 bundles of wiring in the bilge hooked to the pump.


You need to locate the pump or pumps and start tracing the wiring all the way to the batts and to the dash.... be prepared to remove any and all substandard repairs and replace.... OR even rewire the system from scratch.

It SHOULD be wired with a 2 position switch, on/auto, and a float switch... Avoid automatic bilge pumps and combination units with built in float.... make sure you have a cage on the float switch so it can't get fouled..... I have been boating for my whole life.... on my own boats for 25 years.... I learned EARLY on that the bilge pump is NOT the place to cut corners.... buy a pump about 4 times bigger than you think you need (2500 gph is no where near being too much in an emergency) and a tiny one.. (350 gph or so)... the tiny pump will handle rain water, spray, dripping swimmers and spilled cocktails, with a smaller hose and pump it will keep the bilge drier with less power and the big one will buy you a few more minutes in an emergency.

Each pump needs it's own hose and wiring... They should exit the boat about 6" above water level and looping the hose a few more inches higher will reduce water coming in the hoses from wave action.... Also from the high point in the hose routing it needs to run ONLY down to the pump and outlet... multiple high points causes an airlock and could prevent the pump from priming.. IE ALL water should fully drain out of the hose as soon as the pump shuts off...

The hose should be as short and straight as possible and while it IS more costly smooth bore wire reenforced hose flows substantially more water than corrugated host and will last decades...

The pump's rated GPH is at 14V without a hose and without lifting the water up out of a boat... running on batt voltage, lifting a couple feet and going through hose all takes a toll on what it can do.... It's not uncommon to lose 40% or more capacity.

put the small pump and it's float switch as close as you can to the lowest point in the bilge and put the switch for the big pump a couple inches higher...... the location of the bigger pump should still be low but the smaller one gets priority here.... Also consider accessibility... You MIGHT need to reach the big pump in an emergency to unclog it's inlet etc.... WAY deep in the bowels under 18" of water in not where you want to be working on it.... Better would be a quick twist to release it from it's bracket and lift up 2 feet to work on it if you have too.


Disclaimer... I'm not paranoid... why did someone say I was..... Oh man they're after me aren't they..................




EDIT: I see MJ posted while my long winded arse was typing..... YEP be prepared to toss a LOT of stuff in the garbage BUT LEARN what you have and understand it fully before you start cutting..... Makes the puzzle pieces much easier to assemble.

Also Lay out a plan and acquire your new stuff first Many of us could wire a boat from scratch better than the manufacturer but being a newbie you could do more harm than good by jumping too fast.

From your earlier posts I suspect that you are all over this and we'll do our best to help you every step of the way....

BTW.... last time I had to do a major rewire I bought a 2500' roll of twine and a box of sharpies in a dozen colors.... I pre"wired" with the twine leaving every piece 10' too long and color coding both ends for each circuit.... I then perfected my routing and wire lengths without buying a single inch of wire.... Once I was in love I bundled my "harness, and tied loops to shorten "wires" n cut the loops out keeping my color coded ends.... I then removed my "harness" in one piece and copied it with copper.... I ended up with a much better finished product with far less wasted material and thus less money spent.... honestly it took a lot less time too.

welcome to the frenzy, all good suggestions above. one thing i did when sorting mine out was use a 9 volt battery( like in a smoke detector) and a small set of jumpers. powered up the fuse block and followed the voltage to the accessories. can still make a short, but the sparks are not as big.

also if replacing wire, i'd use tinned wire only.

good luck and don't be afraid to ask, some pretty sharp guys on here.

As far as I know, the 228/230 was pretty much un changed as far as teh hull goes from the early 80's when the 228 started until around 93 or so when the 230 stopped and WELLCRAFT went to the new style hulls. It is lower deadrise hull at 16 degrees. It isn't renowned for it's ride in rough waters if you want go very fast as it is only 16 degrees of deadrise with an 8 foot beam, but is said to be pretty stable at anchor. As far as your wiring goes, in 30 years of use and repairs it is anybodys guess what does what anymore. I'm with MJ and say you start over fresh if you want to be able to rely on it. It's anybodys guess how good the actual wire is in it anymore after 30 years of use, corrosion, and electrolisis.

Welcome aboard! I have nothing to add to the wiring discussion, but I can say, with all sincerity . . .




More pics, please!

Great feedback and Smoke's twine idea is gonna help out tremendously!

So now I'm looking at my system more critically including the bilges. I honestly thought that a control panel, was a control panel...kinda like in a car, but as I've read above, there's no telling what some one has done. SO to get started, I've inventoried what instruments/devices I know is on her. They are:

(Control Panel) nav lights, bilge 1, bilge 2, anchor light, spotlight, windshield wipers, deck lights

(Device controlled) vhf, stereo, depth finder, cabin lights

Compass light...I think it's on continuously.

Also, I read somewhere that she might have a wash down system. How can I identify it?

I'm all snowed in right now, but I'll soon get some pics of the cluster I'm facing. I'll also sketch up a desired diagram and get y'all's input. Again, a million thanks!

when snaking wires to the rear of the boat I used good string to snake first, then when i tie the wire to pull thur i put another string with the wire, this way there is always a string there to pull another wire if needed.
Also agree that you must use tined wire for a boat! I got on ebay pretty cheap when I did mine.
Also if you can all wires should be sodered!! If not get the corrsin crimp ons and coat with liguid eletric tape!
And FUSE everthing!

Just my opinion. But thats like a$$hole$ we all have one! LOL

The twine simulated cable idea is pure genius and I agree with Joe on always pulling in a spare string. I learned that from an electrician friend who helped me wire my shop in EMT conduit - it's paid off many times when I wanted to change or add something.

i make the pull cord long enough to loop back up. that way i can tie the pull end back the side being pulled, and it just loops back around as you pull.

I can't always get twine to go where I need it. So, I cut the end off an old shift cable and pulled out the stainless steel core. It is flexible to some extent and yet stiff enough to serve as a poor mans fish tape.
Agree whole-heartedly with leaving an extra piece of twine for next time.

Welcome aboard. IMPO you will never regret having done this yourself. The knowledge of what it is, where it is and how it is wired may literally save your life one day.

Now is no better time than to replace the bilge pumps, switches and hoses. RULE makes a good pump. 1000 gph or bigger is what I would recommend and consider adding a second bilge pump with its own switch as a backup if the previous owner did not.. I have a couple pumps in the bilge because my boat does not self-bail like most. My pumps are tested before every trip. They are 100% or I ain't going. Yes I am ANAL! I am not an expert. I can tell you what works for me in the past 35+ years.. The book makes for good reading. Then go get your hands dirty. It isn't hard at all, and you will gain valuable experience.

Thanks RR!

The boat has two bilges, and I'm definitely prepared to replace both if needed. I was thinking to have both on switches...is that not necessary? Just have one on a switch and the other straight auto?

You can have BOTH on float switches and BOTH on a dual pole switch or separate switches..
Yes they should both be switched in case of a failure of the float switch.

It's all about redundancy.

Yep...that's what I meant in my previous post about having a switch that has 2 poles...one for auto (float switch) operation, the other for manual operation.

My main pump in the rear of the boat is a Rule 2000. My pump up forward is a Rule 1200. Like Smoke said, it's all about redundancy. BTW, You can never have too big a bilge pump. Ask MJ about the time a wave came over his windshield...

D what you're talking about is an on/on or on/off/on switch.

I'm referred to a switch with two sets of contacters so both pumps could be controlled by one switch. IE 4 or 6 terminals. Wouldn't be my firs choice tho.

Best IMHO tho would be a simple on/off switch for each pump with the float switch always hot.

Yep that was a day!! no pumps at all that day, but she floated still with a **** pit full of water!
after that my next boat had 3 pumps! I had two auto one manual, I also put the 2 autos on seprate batterys with the 2nd float a bit higher. This way if it started to leak at the mooring it would kill the first battery then the water would get the 2nd flot and have a full battery for the 2nd pump. hopefully it would give enough time that someone would see something was wrong before it sank!

My recommendation is buy a new lighted 6 or 8 switch panel. Cut a hole right where the switches are now & mount it there. Replace any questionable wire with MARINE GRADE wire. Don't skimp!

NAV&Anchor/off/Anchor (I'm assuming you have an AllAround white light.)

Horn (momentary ON) get a red switch cover for that one

Bilge1ON(manual)/off(both will be Auto)/Bilge2ON(manual) (wire them both AUTO to electronic sensor switches to the battery with in line fuses)

Wiper on/off

Deck lights on/off

Electronics On/off ( you want to be able to switch off the power to FF/GPS/VHF cables to prevent corrosion, ask me how I know...)

The Compass was probably originally connected to the Engine Key On power. If not, connect it to your Anchor light.

You didn't mention Fuel Gauge. They usually came with a momentary switch but an on/off is better for when you're by yourself...

SO...

The new question is "How is 12V power fed TO your switches?"

Do you have separate 12V feeds from battery, thru an inline fuse, to each switch or is there a fuse block fed by a heavy (8 gauge) wire from the battery?
Is the main feed fused at the battery?

Smoke, the switches I use are the on/off/on type you mentioned. Up position is manual on, off in the middle position and automatic in the down position. I also have a bright red LED light wired to the switch. When the pump on, it also turns the LED on, signaling me that the pump is running. That way if I have it in manual mode and I forget it's on, it reminds me to turn it off (so I don't run down the battery), and if it (the light) is on in auto mode it tells me to check and see why the pump is running.

An indicator is a good idea...
Another idea, especially if you plan to moor or sleep on a boat is to hook up a horn or siren to a float switch mounted higher that the normal one and on a second battery... That way, if the maintenance pump doesn't keep up you get warned or woke up when things get serious.

Thats great idea, never thought of adding the horn as a alarm!:fam:

Done. You know, I was just going to do toggle switches until I read this...then it dawned on me how much sense it made! I'll know at a glance if a device is getting power, or not.


Yup! I have fuel, tach, water pressure, voltage and trim (I think I can do without trim). And I didn't even consider including them in my wiring schematic....told ya I was green!

I have two batteries with a battery switch....please see the pics below of the cluster I'm facing. Disclaimer: When I looked at this crap, I felt overwhelmed. Instead of trying to jump in and immediately figure it out, I instead took pictures to analyze at home with a clear head. I'm feeling good again.

http://www.vsu.edu/files/images/univ...ber-12/W2.jpeg

Connectors at the pos and neg with missing wires, more positive wires than there are negative wires!!!. That cream colored wire at the pos is going into the cabin....could be the lights...could be the stereo. Obviously, removal of the empty connectors, tracing all those positive wires and figuring out where the negatives are going is in order.

http://www.vsu.edu/files/images/univ...ber-12/W3.jpeg

That little harness....:sad: That large black cable is the steering cable. I believe my first and easiest traces will be to identify all the thick black cables, as they SHOULD be steering, throttle and trim tab controls.

http://www.vsu.edu/files/images/univ...ber-12/W1.jpeg

That thick white cable is coming from the cabin and running ALLLLL the way to the battery...nice...real nice.

http://www.vsu.edu/files/images/univ...ber-12/w4.jpeg

The creme de la creme. And I have yet to find any busses near the battery. :oh:

Any input, comments, questions or jokes are welcomed!

nice!!!!

Looks a lot cleaner than mine did when I got her, Mine was part birds nest, part beaver dam.

looks to me like that big white wire contains the red & black feeds to the fuse panel? Maybe 12 gauge wire?(too thin in my opinion) Also, there are other wires connected to the + terminal. Are they coming from the battery also?(why) or are they feeding power TO devices?(wrong, should not feed From that terminal)

I would feed the panel from the battery (battery switch) with 8 gauge red & black wire. You should use a 30A Terminal fuse at the +battery post(or battery switch)
You should not run UN-Fused +12 feeds to the battery.

Remove all other feeds from the battery and use the Fuse panel to feed everything thru fuses. All Neg returns go to the Neg bus.
You go from fuse panel to center post on switches.


An exception is Bilge float switch +Brown and -Black. If the bilge pump is near the battery, power the float switch (with in line fuse) directly to the + battery and connect the Black bilge pump wire to the -battery. The Manual switch wire connects to the brown wire between the float switch and pump


here's a quick sketch

Oh and those are some heavy fuses in that panel. your circuits need 5A, maybe 10A for a VHF. Maybe 15 for the cigarette lighter socket.

Those wires will melt before that 25A fuse pops

Thanks for your input Skunk!

It's going to be a slow go, but between all of your input and the 12v Bible, I honestly feel like I can do it!:sun:

Of course you can. "You can do it...we can help"

Once you get into it and figure out what you're looking at, eliminate all the junk that goes to nowhere, and start hooking up your new stuff it really isn't that bad. Be sure to spend a few extra bucks and take your time and do it right. It will pay off in the end. Also remember, K.I.S.S. Don't make the new system more complicated than it needs to be, you want to be able to look at it and know what it is if you ever have to make a repair.

And use marine grade heat shrink, marine grade tinned wire, and marine connectors. Keeping saltwater out of the wire and connectors goes a LONG way to making the wires last. It doesn't take but a few hours of electrolisis affecting copper wire to turn it black and cut down it's ability to conduct electricity. Pay a little more now, or pay a lot more in a short time to redo it. This is a lesson I have learned the hard(and expensive) way.

:oh:

Now, y'all hipped me to getting tinned wire...but marine grade heat shrink? I didn't know there was such a thing. Now I know!

And I went to Radio Shack (going out of business sale) and bought some regular heat shrink connectors. Oh well, I can use them for something else.

good place 4 wire http://www.bestboatwire.com/

i've used the regular heatshrink and just put a shot of dielectric grease in it. seems to hold up pretty well.

Marine heat shrink has a sealer inside of it. When it is heated to shrink it, the inner liner turns to glue to completely seal the connection. It is some GOOD stuff, but hang on when you see the price. I remember buying it for $.25 a piece, and the last ones I bought 2 years ago were about $2 a piece. The problem I have found with the heat shring terminals is when you crimp them, you normally pierce the heat shring and leave part of the terminal exposed where the elements can get in. They're still good conenctors, just be careful crimping them. For your main feed wires, make sure and crimp, solder, and heat shrink them. If you crimp then solder the ends, it can still conduct electricity even if somehow you get a bad spot i nthe wire and it starts to turn black. If you just crimp it, that black portion inside the terminal wil lstop electricity from conducting, but when you solder it the black eelctrolisis cannot happen so the wire lasts longer(if that makes any sense, I'm pretty bad at describing things).

By the way, I've had good results with Harbor Freight heat shrink connectors. They have the glue in them also, and make a perfect seal.
Additionally, remember that liquid electrical tape is your best friend. As the name implies it's a non-conducting liquid that you can brush on any electrical connection. After it dries you have a 100% complete air and water tight seal. I pretty much use it for any connection I have to make, including covering the spade terminals where they go into the buss box.
Remember, you're not only trying to keep out any water, but also any air. Salt air is just as corrosive as salt water. It just takes a little longer, but the result is the same. So make those connections as airtight as possible.

I do have a fuel gauge (that I thought I had to replace...'nother story, 'nother thread), and it seems like it's grounded to a switch. Can you please shed some light as to why it would be and why it needs to be on a switch?

UPDATE:

I'm slowing, but surely working my way through it. I have discovered an additional bus bar that must be the original, and it is buried behind a tangle and does have heat coming to it....sigh.

The majority of the switches on that dash have been disconnected...no wonder why nothing works. As you can see in the earlier picture, there is a sad little wire harness that's running loose.

Also, my stern bilge pump (Sahara S750) isn't getting any heat, evidenced by the test knob that I turned. It may need to be replaced, as it was sitting in a block of ice a couple of days ago, and is now sitting in the middle of gunk.

I also second on the K.I.S.S method... I've got a complete re-wire project coming up on mine. I've got a few plans to run a dual battery system with a Automatic Charging Relay installed between the start battery and the house. Blue Sea Systems makes a really nice kit.

My thought on running a dual bilge pump system. Make sure that you run two separate switches/powersource for those. Just in case one pump goes, blows the fuse, etc... that way you have a way of running the back up one. There is nothing like trying to troubleshoot a blown fuse in an emergency.