Brand new mid hp motor?
 

So I am looking at a 90 to 115 hp outboard 20" shaft to repower a skiff. My NV boat has been such a good old girl and is so unique as to be downright worthless to most. I am going to do the right thing and freshen her up a little. New trolling motor, GPS, outboard and a fresh rig job, rebuild a couple hatches and re-seal the transom. 18 year old boat deserves it, right?

Looking hard at the new 115 Mercury 4-stroke - Lightweight of the crowd at 365 dry I think it is lighter than the Opti. Has an Suzuki is out due to lack of dealers in my area. Honda, Yamaha and Johnson/Evinrude are all palatable choices.
Anyone got any opinions? First hand or otherwise.

BTW- The motor I am looking to replace is a 90hp Johnson crossflow from 1994. It still runs but is looking a little rough around the edges. If anyone is interested let me know as it is for sale as of right now. Cheap, make offer.

The boatAttachment 5692

Does Bombardier still sell the Zuk as a Johnson?

If so, you know my vote.

90 Yamaha? Lighter than the 115, will push a 17 Montauk with no problem, has plenty of power for a 90. I've re powered two 17 Montauk with them, turned out pretty good

i've got a friend that repowered a 20 dusky with the new 150 merc 4 stroke. he loves it. i'm guessing the 115 is a smaller version.
have you had any experience with tohatsu. i repowered my 13 whaler in 03 with a 40 and it's been a great little motor. i think that was the last years of the carbed 2 strokes. i've heard good things about the tldi's they have now. buying one is like buying a dodge truck, you better like it , cause nobody will give you anything for it.

A friend of mine just repowered his 17 montauk with a 90 hp yamaha and is well satisfied!!!!

So there are more than a couple Yamaha 90 hp fans. I hear you, and Spare is right on the 115 Yamaha is a lot heavier. Still lurking at this NEW Merc with the High Thrust lower unit option. HT lower has a 2.33 gear and has the same diameter gearcase as the v-6 Mercs so the prop choices go through the roof. With only 115 ponies that lower ought to hold on for years. That is important to me, I am tough on lower units and skegs in particular. Pricing on the Yamaha seems to be a little higher than the Merc offering as was the E-tec. They are really selling the no service for three years on the Johnrudes. Suzuki and Tohatsu are out simply because I don't have a friend that owns a dealership, like I do on the other products.
Switching away from Johnson I will need to replace all the controls which i$ going to add up real fa$t. Even if I didn't trade brands I would replace it all anyways. Might trade the old engine for some new controls.. Might even be forced to do a little glass work to the console while I am there, the binnacle control on the Johnson has a huge footprint. IIRC There are definitely new battery cables in my future, I am fairly sure the original rigger used a cheap set of jumper cable wires on a Monday morning Budweiser googles screwjob! Yep a complete re-rig is a coming. 3 stators and a weak start later... No more putting this off. Time to do it.

That last statement there is how I feel about the boat. I had heard Tohatsu was tough as cut nails. Mercury used them for a few of their smaller hp motors back in the late 80's. IIRC The 40 was one that Mercury didn't make. Never heard anything but good. Same of the Yamahas except for a oil pan corrosion issue on some of the 90's. My neighbor's for instance...

do you think a 70 would push it? the 70 Yamaha seems to be the #1 choice of the flats guys around here, granted they are pushing lighter boats, but the 70 is lighter than the 90 and seems to be a very strong 70

A 90 does it justice. On plane fast with a old Mach 4 blade prop, ran the boat to near 40 WOT. 70 seems a little lacking in a 4-stroke I would think. But that 70 Yamaha is a sweet little package.

Yamaha 115 2-stroke is what I wet tested on the hull before I bought one. No regrets, I went used 90 hp Johnson on a new boat. It got me on the water, this time I am going to pony up. Literally. I think a 115 4-stroke is what it needs. I should be able to put it on plane and make fuel at 3500 RPM -- close to 7MPG cruising.. Stoked because the ole 2-smoke does not get 2 MPG I kid you knot...

you need to find some one that has one of the newer fourstrokes on a boat similar in size to what you have and take it for a spin. The newer engines are not lacking in power, teh 70 and 90 are both new engine designs(in the last couple years any way). The 115 is still teh same engine they have been making for a while. I've heard of several people opting for the new 90 over hte 115 because of weight and negligible difference in power. If it were a heavier boat, I'd definitely say go with the 115, but knowing its a shallow water boat, the weight difference may be worth the loss of hp, minimal as it is

The 115 Merc is all new. From Merc -- It is a single OHC 4 valve per cylinder Inline 4 that is 20 lbs lighter than any of the competitors offerings. 315 lbs is where I was, 360 is where I will be with more hp on tap. So, If I shift my snakebite formula from the rear of the boat to the middle or front, the weight should not be a factor. Besides I just lost 65 pounds and the pilot sits near the stern, just saying..

Weight is HUGE with a flat bottom, or mostly flat bottom skiffs. I would find another boat with newer power on it and try it out. If going new, I would put weight at the top of my list of deciding factors, and HP 2nd. I know I have seen some skiffs repowered with newer power, and it made the boats almost unfishable by adding 100 pounds in the stern.

This inverted V has a couple quirks but weight carrying is not a problem.
In Mercury (4-strokes and the Opti's)and the e-tec Johnson/Erude the 75,90,115 are all the same weight. Same displacement and size motors with different hp ratings. So I am not considering putting 45 pounds of additional weight back there without maxing out the hp to weight ratio in the category.
Yamaha motors are completely different going from the 90 to the 115. Pricey all of them. I think I want the Mercury because of the deal/dealers in my area. I lean American, is th Merc even made here anymore?

If you are going Merc then go all the way. 150xs!!!!!!

Boat has a hp rating of 115, or I would have put Ozzie's 200 on it. With the 20" Mariner Magnum mid that you got. I thought about it, real hard, but then look where I would be now. Ultimately I am going for economy not speed.. The main quirk to the hull is it will never be fast, it has a huge rocker with hull extentions that plants the sponsons the more power you give it. It squeezes the water between the sponsons and creates a super cavitated mix of water as it goes over the lower unit, quirk #2. This might all sound a little unwanted in a skiff, but it will run places it can't even float, plane off in frog spit and is as stable a fishing platform as you can get in the size. With the larger gearcase and prop, it should be even faster to plane, like 2 seconds in two boatlengths. So quick and efficient and legal.

Think Hickman Sea Sled with a little more deadrise at the transom. LOL!
http://www.winninghoff.com/common/in...av=EE&page=E01

Committed myself to the Mercury motor today. Controls and harness cost just north of $500 clams at a decent discount I might add.. Ouch!
Spare I will finally get to use those Smartcraft gauges that have been sitting on my shelf for how many years? Talk about new old stock...
Now I need to get the rest of the Johnrude off this old girl and start with some more glass work. The dash will need to be reconfigured/recored as the bonehead (ME) that rigged it 18 years ago didn't seal up around the gauges too well (AT ALL) and allowed water to rot the core in the dash..(In one little spot but because I am anal) I mean who knew, I never had anything fancy enough to need a gauge before NV. :embarsed: I finally found a camera. If I only had a couple double A batteries. It is always something.

Epiphany - I have fully embraced the fact that I am going to find many a mistake by doing it wrong the first time..

The 115 is slow coming from Mercury ( Another Month of waiting) so I said "Screw It" and plan to rig the 250 EFI instead. With a 25" leg I should have the prop in some clean water and be able to get the bow up and flying on the flats boat..

Seriously, the 90 Yamaha is 380 lbs, just a squeeze more than the 115 Merc 4-stroke. E-tec is 320 for the 90 hp 380 for the 115 (so the e-tec is heavier than the NEW 115 4-stroke from Merc) That is interesting..
Still what a kick to the scrotum to find out Mercury won't have more motors to ship until 9/11/14......... Unbe:cen:lievable!

Shoot, you throw more than that away on any given day.

Oh Yeeouch! You had to go there, I can only assume that reference is for the lost wallet.. I have not fully recovered from that one..
That is cold. I feel the love here. LOL! Thanks Wilson.
I could always sell that Merc stuff on fleabay.. Go Yamaha?

OR Let me bank account recover a bit and then pull the trigger. Just hate waiting around and the boat was supposed to be ready for the Labor Day debut... Sucks, just saying!!

Congrats on your soon to be new engine Ridge!

Daughter's boyfriend has new 90 on his 17' flats boat...it's a ZIP SLED!!
:party:

Sorry I got distracted earlier Reel.. Busy day. I hear all of the weight concerns loud and clear. Which is why I am attempting to buy the lightest weight 4-stroke motor made in 115 hp. This new mota at 2.1 liter is a lot of displacement yet 40 pounds lighter than the old 1.7 liter/115. Makes more torque than the old 2-strokes according to Merc.

This is the motor I originally tested on the demo boat. It is 10 pounds lighter than the 4 -stroke Mercury. http://www.outboard-engine.com/engin...p?recordID=238
They have made some inroads in the weight department.

Thanks Bradford for the congratulations;-) It will be my first new engine...
Hope I ain't steppin' up to be another guinea pig (read TEST BIT*H) for Merc.. NEW MOTOR AND ALL! OH good goodness, knock on wood! We will have EXTENDED Warranty and a full understanding of the lemon law before we initialize that final contract, just to be safe.

Update/Rant
 

Mercury spent a few hours testing this motor before release. They claim that the mid-hp motors are 30% of the outboard segment. They surely needed to get it right with such stiff competition from the Japanese. But did they?
Well, the motor is in (exactly when they said it would be) and I am still not ready. Still need to do some rigging and my new switch plate hasn't arrived yet. One of my delays involves a USPS delivery. The US mail cannot deliver a package to an address unless that address has a mailbox?? WTF? That is why UPS, FEDEX, DHL and others cost a tad more but your package will get there. Bear in mind this package will no way fit into a mailbox and the postage carrier must get a signature so they must go to the door. They never even tried. OK OK, I knew they wouldn't deliver here but I had no idea there was anyone that still used USPS to ship packages either.

Now is time for a plug for NEWWIREMARINE out of Charleston, SC. They do marvelous work with switches. They use the best switchgear and have some of the finest workmanship I have ever seen. Laser engraved backlit Contura switches are what lit me up, no pun intended. My hommemade switchplate wasn't up to the task, aesthetically. Yeah, I know skiffs ain't supposed to be pretty. If that motor had been here earlier I would have been fishing by now instead of spending dollars on switchgear...

Meanwhile, Instead of bringing back the Black Cloud Thread I thought I would inform you all, I am officially out from under that SOB... I burned up a lower unit Labor Day weekend and that was the end of the BAD LUCK. There I said it.. My health is also returning to normal. Thank you all for your prayers. It means a world to me to have such caring folks on here share their support and good wishes. I woke up this morning for the seventh consecutive day feeling good. What a struggle this has been. Haven't even been scalloping all year.

I know the feeling. I seen an NV for sale on CL the other day and thought of yours. Could have saved you a bunch of work for only $38,500, yep the bargain basement price of $38,500 for one redone with a newer engine on it.

As for scalloping, I haven't been either, but I hope to Sunday before the season ends. Been busy lately with a funeral, and the last few weeks has been getting ready for my son's 2nd birthday party we had yesterday. And good to here about your health, I know you weren't in the best of shape last time I seen yeah.

Holy smoke what a bargain. Just $38,500. On a serious note the last ones made had a full liner and a couple were carbon and kevlar, many rigged with towers.. Rare, only because there were so few built. Probably no more than 40 boats in all.

This one has a tower. Says it was an 07, but wasn't finished out until 2013. Could have saved yourself a bunch of trouble and just bought this one finished out.

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/4662801292.html

That is a bunch of lettuce right there. Too fat for my wallet. I purchased in 1996 and gave $5400 for the boat and $2000 for the trailer. Rigged it with a used 90 hp for another $3k trolling motor $1k misc. rigging and I had about $12 k complete in 1996. I may spend that again refitting this old girl. Looking at $10k so far for: new 115 hp Merc, Trolling motor, depth finder/GPS combo, plus the misc. which always manages to break the budget.
I must say the rigging hardware that Mercury sent with their high dollar control box is nothing short of silly. It should be a 1/4"-20 size and they give a #8 screw and well nuts. Laughable. Then they give 40 feet of neutral safety switch wire and then I am looking at all the do-dads on this wire harness, holy. I need a computer geek and a Merc Master Tech. I wonder if the Geek Squad guys speak Mercury? It is all plug and play really, just finding a place to tie all the wires up is going to be interesting. I have zero hope for doing anything but a civil tie up job. Trying to make it look good would be time consuming while standing on your head under the way too small dash. I almost have a picture to share...:oh:

ridge, what lower unit do you need, i have 3 and looking to move all of my merc stuff. put money down on a new 150 merc 4s, let me know and i'll meet you in perry.

It is a 3.0Liter Torquemaster 25" that I just burned up. None of the 2.5 stuff works on it. SEI has them with a warranty for around $1K. I actually have one in the shed already, it just has the wrong length driveshaft in it. Should not be too difficult a fix, I found a man that can weld up or replace the shaft to make it whatever length I need.
Not to shoot you down at all. I am always open to suggestions/ looking for spares, so if you have something let me know and thanks. Vic

UPDATE:

The one holding the purse strings is the only one seemingly interested in getting this project done. Today is the fire up the peons day. Time to get something done once and for all. Waiting on a dealer to order a couple of critical items. Like a junction box for the Smartcraft Gauges and a couple of control cables. Then I am still having shipping issues on another item or two. Either the dealer will get the stuff I need today or I will just order it online and have it tomorrow or the next day from boats.net or iboats.com.

This project began three weeks before Labor Day. This waiting around is making me stir crazy.

On a plus side, you didn't miss much for scallop season. Went out SUnday to the same area we went to last year, and between 2 of us in 3 hours only magaed about a gallon in the shell. We searched and searched, went out deep past the other boats, in shallow, on top of the other boats, but still ended up with next to nothing. Of course fishing is Chass wasn't much better. Saw LOTS of BIG fish, but none would take a lure. Only ended up with one 16 inch trout. We hooked into some ladyfish, but lost them all to some big trout. That was the worst was sight casting to some MONSTER trout, seeing come up and stare at whatever we through at them, but they wouldn't take a lure. Hook a ladyfish though, and lose it instantly to a trout. Saw one that had to have been 28 inches if he was an inch. Looked like a friggen snook with spots it was so thick. Or the big school of bull reds we drifted over that just stared at us.

Well, that is not at all what I wanted to hear but I might feel a little better about not going. Crazy about the gator trout not hitting. They are fairly aggressive this time of year. Redfish doesn't surprise me much. That is why I need to go. I want to have trout defy my lures right to my face. Redfish too. LOL!

Well there is some progress with the parts and pieces. Switch panel shall arrive in the a.m. and the dealer might get a reprive until tomorrow morning..those parts are on the UPS truck today too.. Happy Happy

Pictures soon I promise. :love:

Found my pin pushing tool (Radio Shack) to change around a couple of Molex connectors. Mercury sent the controls for an I/O instead of an outboard the main difference is that the trim switch has four wires? Harness only has three and the plugs are very different. I can surmise the extra wire is for some version of trim limit/trailer tilt ? Who knows but the plastic molex 4-wire connectors from Radio Shack did the trick. Used the same setup for the jack-plate control wires. Ran new 1 Ga primary wire from the battery under the console to the transom and yanked the 18 year old jumper cable wires and extention chord (Orange) that the builder used to wire the old girl originally. I have literally changed every wire.
A few connections to solder up and we will be running in no time.

J-box -- check
Control Cables -- check
Switch Panel -- check
:news::time:

Progress... Finally...

Switch panel in all rigging done ready for a motor
Attachment 5742

Attachment 5743

Attachment 5744

That first picture reveals a speedo that goes to 80.. Pfffft! :zip:

Insurance woes me...
 

Manic these days. The highs and lows of refitting a damn boat..

Motor is being unboxed as I type.. Dealer recommends insurance. I nearly forgot that little 4 letter word:bat: Ummm, well Yeah! That would be prudent in this case.

Stated value is the only way I can go with this old a boat. Anyone have any recommendations on what carrier I might call?
Thanks in advance...

Those Merc Platinum cables cost a bit more but silk generally doe$.

OK, I am stoked about the NEW motor again. Like I said manic...
Medicated for your protection, TOO! I always loved that sig line..

Don't know about for a boat, but I know on my BURB the only reasoneably priced stated value policy I could find was southern auto owners. They were less than half what others wanted for a stated value policy, and were pretty easy to deal with as far as getting it(only wanted pictures and a description, others wanted itemized receipts).

I have Progressive...havent had to use them, but it is pretty cheap and easy to deal with online.