Internet Sales Tax
 

The pigs in Washington DC are at it again... looking for ways to pay for the massive debt they have saddled every (tax paying) American with. N0w they are trying to ram through an internet sales tax. If you haven't contacted your rep to voice your displeasure, do so NOW!! This thing is on a fast track so there's not much time. They're hoping to get this done before the public realizes what's going on.

It's never going to come to cutting spending. Only ways to generate more revenue. They think us tax payers have a limitless supply to keep giving more and more. They all act like CEO's of corporations and we work for them. Guess what folks, they work for US!!!! Until people start voting them out of office they will continue to tax us in new ways.:cen::cen::cen:

I agree with you, govt. spending is out of control.
BUT
Sales tax on interweb sales is due to the state, not the Feds.
So the Feds have their house in order and are going forward with this groundbreaking legislation? IMHO another cluster..
Just because a sale was made via the internet should not relieve the interested parties from their sales tax. AND I don't think it ever has. It is simply too difficult to enforce so the masses have said, "No Bueno" Brick and mortar stores selling to people walking thru a door or via the WWW, I don't see the difference. Only dispute is what state to send the tax to, the buyers or the sellers. I can see some instances of double the tax if your the seller being audited after your customer voluntarily paid the sales tax in another state.
Florida had a month of sales tax amnesty last year. It was their attempt to get businesses within the State to ante-up for products purchased without sales tax. ("Amnesty" for those wondering, is the state forgiving the penalty on the tax being late..)
"Every transaction" requires sales tax according to the Florida Dept. of Revenue. Like every time a car is sold, which could be a bunch of times, sales tax is paid.. I disagree with it all, I mean I don't like it. We sell lumber at a small margin, the state gets 7% of everything we sell and we often have to send off the sales tax before we have even collected the money from the customer. Then the way they force you to do it all online and the state swipes the money directly from your account. Nazi-MF ers.

Well, yes and no.

What is happening here is that right now sales tax on internet sales is ONLY due if the buyer lives in the same state as the seller. This new law would make it so that someone living in a different state would still have to pay the sales tax of the sellers state.

When the internet came into being, congress passed a law that made sales tax on the internet illegal except for the way I've just outlined. But the big brick and mortar stores are now spending massive amounts of money thru their PACS trying to get Congress to change the law. The reason is simple. Increased profits through less competition. They want to force small internet start up companies out of business. By having to track, collect and pay to the states sales taxes it will put a huge amount of strain on a small mom and pop store selling out of their living room. Plus, think about it. It will FORCE people to work for FREE for the government. They don't get paid for the amount of time or effort they need to spend in order to do the paperwork to tax, collect and send the taxes in. Big brick and mortar stores could care less, they already have to do that anyway, so it's an easy way to drive out the competition. This whole campaign is being funded by the large brick and mortar stores. But the result will be the same for ALL of us. It WILL COST MORE to buy something on the internet. Cheaper prices will become a thing of the past, and THAT is why we must fight this.

I don't know what law Congress passed outlining the sales tax structure in your state?? You can check me but I believe the collection of Interstate taxes is prohibited by the constitution. However, most states have a Use Tax. The Use Tax is applicable for anything purchased online or otherwise from out of State where sales taxes were not collected from the purchaser at the time of purchase.
Florida Dept of Revenue does give a break for the time it takes to fill out the sales tax paperwork. (half of a percent or something) So even though it is a bit more work, the workers would be working as indentured servants, not as a slave of the govt.
As much as I hate to say it, anyone who owns and operates a business in their livingroom needs to be paying their way too, even if the money just goes to the state and not directly on the National Debt.. Isn't it enough that small mom and pop companies operating out of their living room have no overhead, liability, employees to pay, reemployment tax, workers comp, health insurance, nor do they have to deal with the complex myriad of governmental agencies crawling up their backside.
If you have ever run a brick and mortar type business legitimately, you know good and well why the brick and mortar stores are trying to get all businesses to pay their share. Something to keep the auditors busy and off your back if nothing else..
Your internet price will go up a little, but if you continue to buy it from the internet it will still be cheaper.

Destroyer-"By having to track, collect and pay to the states sales taxes it will put a huge amount of strain on a small mom and pop store selling out of their living room."

Intrastate commerce, (selling products in your own state) requires the collection of sales tax. Same people, same paperwork, if they aren't already paying sales tax they are breaking the law.

The sales tax is arguably the "Fairest" tax we have.

No, you misunderstand. This will mean that a mom and pop store will have to track, figure out and pay sales taxes to 50 different states. (or however many states actually have sales taxes) Each state is different, has their own rates and laws. Right now mom and pops only have to track and pay for their own state. So now they will be responsible for paying taxes to 50 different states, at each states rate, and if they screw up the fines and penalties could easily put them out of business. It will put a lot of them out of business anyways, simply because they won't be able to afford the extra manpower necessary to do all the paperwork required.

And while we're on the subject... Where did that statement about sales taxes being the fairest tax come from? Sorry Ridge, but I have to disagree with you on that.

What makes anyone think that the state is entitled to ANY money from the result of a sale of goods from one person to another? They did absolutely nothing to help with the sale, not a single road, police, fire dept or anything else was involved with the sale, any more than what is normally out there already and already being paid for by state taxes. Sales taxes are nothng but a scam by the states to steal even more of your money.
They are, without a doubt, the unfairest tax of them all.

I dont know, I would consider it more "fair" than some of the others....I think Ridge's reasoning is along the lines you are only paying tax if you choose to purchase something and the amount you pay is directly proportional to what you choose to spend. Now obviously everyone has to buy stuff for basic survival although NJ at least has no sales tax on food and clothes so that helps.

I would have to say the least fair would be income tax. I mean just taking a straight cut out of your pay because you made it???

Most fair I think is property tax and if you consider it a tax, toll charges on roads are pretty fair as well as you can choose to take other roads if you want.

Sales tax I would put in the middle, but bottom line is they all suck.

Actually, I think property taxes are unfair. Each parcel of land is valued different and why should a land owner in Dade county pay more than Polk county? Why do land-owners have to pay anything more than those who own no land. Aside from this, RWilson is on track with my thinking. Sales tax is like a flat tax, very fair because it is the same for everyone. No loopholes to escape sales tax, even if the administrators are a bit Draconian. Think about it, even illegally gotten gains turns into good clean revenue when the money is spent and sales tax is collected. From drug dealers to clergymen, rich or poor sales tax has a set of blinders on. Just pay at the point of purchase and be happy. Don't like the tax, don't buy the item. You can truly pick and choose.
Not that I am for taxes either, they all suck..

As a seller I can tell you Florida has a 6% sales tax and every county adds their surtax. We have to track where every sale is being made. Yes there is paperwork involved. No it is not rocket science or onerous. We have been audited twice in the past 8 years and it was unpleasant both times. So please explain to me, why should a shoestring operation started in someone's living room get a pass on all the fun?

BTW, Florida is one of 7 states without a State Income Tax. If I had to pay the state any more tax I think I would be up in arms about it too. Just want everyone on a level playing field.

They could solve the internet sales tax issue or at least make it less complicated if they would allow the seller to collect and submit the sales taxes due based on the rate in the state they are in. Instead of basing the sales tax rate on the buyers location. Reciprocity between states would go a long way too.

I normally hunt for the "I agree with Destroyer button".
Not this time, but that is what makes this great forum even better. :clap:

All taxes are confiscatory. Government taking from Citizens money they earned, under the threat of force.

Under a Constitutional Government, they would raise a tax to handle a local, or national need and only take what was needed to handle that need.

What we have under the current, decades now, government is confiscatory taxes of all forms, death taxes, estate taxes, sales, income, both federal and state.

The purpose is no longer to address a national need it solely to grow the size, scope and dominance of the government.

When it is divided up under the guise of different types of taxes no one even discusses the totality of the theft that is occurring.

This internet tax is just the latest scheme to remove more of the wealth from the private sector and turn it over to the government. Will that money be used to reduce your states massive deficit?
Will it be used to address a states emergency situation?
No it will be used nationally and in the states to grow the size and scope of the government.
Period.

Good men as those here have fallen into the trap of debating whether this tax or that tax is fair.
The conversation is being led and controlled by those who are delivering the Kings Tea.

.
What he said. Said with the elloquence he is noted for. God I wish I could write that well. We both write with a passion for what we know is right, but I just write from the heart. Willy writes from the soul. :clap:

I could not have said it any better. :beer:

Willy, of course from that angle nearly all taxes are against the Constitution. If that is your point Destroyer I will start hunting the button. I didn't miss the point, in the real world, government exists and some are in deficit in light of the economic conditions. Florida has a billion or so dollar surplus as a State. So the governor is finding ways to spend, did I mention he is running for governor again... A good day for government workers, and a prime example of government expansion following the contraction in spending and manpower, they really cut too much when Scott took office, but then they will have plenty of time to see after any overage.
I'll take sales tax for visitors over state income tax all day.
x4- Taxes suck

Because you get the SAME pass on every internet sale you make as long as the person is from a different state. No one gets a complete pass, because you still have to collect sales tax if the buyer is from your own state, but you all get the same pass on interstate sales. It's good for business and good for competition, and good for both the buyers and sellers.


There are no passes only a lack of enforcement. Sales and Use Tax- It is the buyers responsibility to voluntarily submit to the state any unpaid portion of sales tax in the form of USE TAX. The laws are there, but not being enforced. Ask me how I know, or should I say, Meet any auditors lately?

No, not quite correct. "It is the buyers responsibility to voluntarily submit to the state any unpaid portion of sales tax in the form of USE TAX". ONLY if the buyer lives in the same state as the seller. Otherwise there is no sales or use tax, because Congress specifically legistated that the internet would be free of sales and use tax. But now they are considering taking that away because they are getting lobbied by the big box stores that are crying ... "Oh boo hoo... it's sooooo unfair".... The ONLY thing they are interested in is MONEY. Fairness has nothing to do with it.

Not to beat a dead horse.. BUT
 

I am correct, according to the CPA and the Florida Department of Revenue. It is no more voluntary than volunteering to pay Federal Income Tax.

Case in point: Ordering cheap leather gloves and forklift seats online from an out of state seller. The FDOR auditor caught it and said we had to pay the use tax plus the penalty and our CPA agreed with him so IDK?? Maybe Florida is different?
Or maybe a business is different than personal. If it were voluntary then why would the State Have a week of Amnesty and further why would there be a penalty??

I am blonde but I catch on pretty fast. Tax & penalty!! :ski:

Ok, I just pushed the "Ridgerunner is right" button. The seller is not required to charge the sales tax, but the purchaser, legally, is required to pay a "use" tax if the seller does not charge the sales tax. What a crock of BS.

Glad this thread is getting more on track with correct information. Only thing I havent seen mentioned is these mom and pop stores will not be affected unless they do more than a million in business annually. Ever since I got on my IRS payment plan I pay close attention to tax laws.

Lets face it, brick and mortar are good for everyone, from those that design, build, and staff to those that shop there. I see no reason internet businesses should be given a 6.75% advantage (NC sales tax). Taxes suck, I hate em and my standard of living would be far greater if they were lower but they are a necessary evil and all businesses should be treated equally.

Perhaps, but it's going to make a whole lot of difference in how I personally shop. I buy a lot of items on eBay, and if they (the government) starts requiring me to pay sales taxes on those items I'm not gonna be happy.... Sorry, but I'm not concerned with one business being treated more fairly than another.... When you have hundred million dollar brick and mortar stores crying about being treated fairly you know that something is not kosher. Oh Boo-Hoo... BS!! Their aim is to eliminate competition, pure and simple, and they are using the US Government to help accomplish their goal. The ultimate loser is going to be the consumer, and I'll be damned if I like it or really care that one business has to pay tax and the next one doesn't. No one ever said that capitalism was fair.

Soon it's going to be anyone exchanging cash for anything will be taxed.I mean when you buy a used car for example weather from a dealer or private you pay sales tax.How many time does the goverment need to collect tax on the same car. Could you just emagin buying a lawn mower from your neighbor and paying sales tax.Well if they have there that kind of nonsense will happen.It's not about fairness to small . It's about the greed of this goverment

Exactly

Cannot agree with you Destroyer. Remember our fearless leader picking favorites? Goverment should not be allowed to look the other way while internet businesses crush it in profits leaving the brick and mortars to wother away leaving empty shells across our nation.

I've bought over $3000 worth of boating supplies over the last year via the web and I love saving money but to say the government should allow the current structure to continue so I can pay less is irresponsible to the larger picture.

Brick and mortar invest in communities, employ personnel, pay utilities and local taxes. B&M are the inneficient economic pumps that help communities spend the same money multiple times. I say that has earned them the right to a level playing field. How about the local mom and pop tackle store? They too don't deserve a level playing field either?

Well, since ALL big brick and mortar stores have their own internet sales departments I'm sorry but your arguement doesn't hold water. They can (and do) make just as much (or more) money on the internet as the little guy because they have the name and so people go to their sites more often.

And yes, B&M's are large economic pumps...but they are also large 500 lb gorillas that come into a community with drastically low prices that the local guys can't compete with, (Look at the business model for Home Depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart, etc.. it's all the same...they'll deliberately lose money for a year or two until the competition is gone) drive them out of business and then they have an economic stranglehold on that community. Then they start raising their prices and cheapening their merchandise. After all, who's there to compete with them? Don't you see??? They are not interested in a level playing field...they want the whole playing field. They want it ALL!! You think that's fair?

Here's an idea...how about we make it so that they cannot do that? Wouldn't that level the playing field? Lets pass laws that large B&M's cannot sell things at lower prices and drive out competition. Sounds kind of silly right? Yet that's exactly what they are trying to do to the little guys right now with this tax BS.... drive them out of business so they can have the whole internet playing field to themselves. And the government doesn't care... they're gonna get more revenue...so they're happy... Like I said, it's the consumer that ultimately is gonna lose out, which is why we need to fight this thing.

People go in a B&M, hold the item, inspect it, compare it to the other manufacturers of the same product sold in store and then buy it on Amazon. If the big guys have such an advantage why is Best Buy on the verge of bankruptcy? Why is Circuit City out of business? Who knocked Boater's World out of business? Why does West Marine not price match any longer? For God's sake Sear's is finally off the edge of bankruptcy after teetering on the brink for years. People shopping for a product of any value start with a ggole search of said product followed by "for sale." The immediately get 5 results from various stores. How can B&M's compete when they have the additional overhead of all their stores PLUS the local tax rate up to 13% in some areas?

Almost every place I buy from gives me an instant shipping quote based on my zip. Technology has made it very simple to do the same for sales taxes to the destination.

My argument is sound, backed up by facts, therefore holds water.

Remind me again why internet businesses having to account for use tax rather than the consumer is so terrible? Also if you hate use tax so much that you are willing to risk imprisonment then move to a state without it and problem solved. FYI, Alaska, Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire and Delaware are your choices.

Last thing, move to one of those states, set up 100 different business websites and sell to consumers by buying and shipping to them while staying under the $1 million revenue threshold and assist others in evading taxes. Now THAT is fighting the fight.

You say that there is no difference between an Internet tax and a sales tax in the store. But you're wrong. With 11,000 separate tax jurisdictions and rates in the US, taxing sales online is a huge burden on net firms. And, government regulation, oversight, retaliation, and discipline will invade the Internet under the guise of collecting back taxes. This is what you're letting in the back door under the pretense of "fairness". Sorry if you cannot see it that way. That doesn't change the fact of it.

There are over 41,000 zip codes and if you search the web there are FREE spreadsheet databases that tie zip code into sales tax rate for that zipcode. Any local computer guy could customize that database to tie into your accounts payable/receivable database for less than what you pay for your general accounting software.

Not so easy. Tax jurisdictions are not as simple as zip code. In some locales there are state, county, city, parish, school district, etc, etc taxes to collect.

Sometimes the defining line can be the even/odd side of the street.

Even if you have software to calculate the tax (and there are providers licking their chops hoping) the issue of remittance and auditing is huge. Suppose someone from Illinois places a ten dollar order with a New Hampshire company? New Hampster (Live Free or Die) doesn't have a sales tax. Illinois has state tax, county tax , local tax, etc... We are talking pennys of tax due but the seller needs to keep track of what jurisdiction is due what. How often does each tax jurisdiction want to get paid? Some monthly, some quarterly? What if any jurisdiction thinks an online seller is under reporting? Can a county in Peoria audit a seller in New Hampster?

The obvious solution would seem to be a Federal agency to act as a clearing house to make reporting and remittance simpler.

Do you see where this is going?

States need to simplify. 50 States/50 Sales Tax rates.. Those opposed to the sales tax are painting the issue into seemingly unsurmountable amounts of work. It is not.
As a buyer, you will get used to sales tax soon enough. Then you will be paying "your share" like those of us who don't buy off the internet. Why were you getting a break in the first place? Ridiculous really, how about keeping books? Paying for a Business License? etc. What other breaks do internet based businesses get? v1

You guys still don't get it. Monkey Butler pointed it out beautifully, but I guess there are none so blind as those that will not see. The taxes due to different places (states, counties, parishes, etc) are going to become so confusing that the Federal Government is going to have to step in to help sort out the confusion, (as only they can). So they will become the collectors of the taxes, keep a portion for themselves for their trouble (administrative costs) and pass the rest along to the various states etc.

But you know, it's going to be soooooo hard to keep track.... wouldn't it be easier and more efficient if the tax was the same throughout the entire Country? I know...lets have a value added tax instead of a sales tax..that way it will be fair for everyone.... And they'll start off with a small VAT, but in a few years, after people get used to paying it, they'll start raising it.. 1-2% per year. Pretty soon it will be 10% of the cost of ANY item you buy, internet or in person. And we will NEVER get rid of it, it will simply be another yoke around our necks. Another source of revenue for the Government. I tell you, they are licking their chops, salavating over the thought of a national VAT. Don't believe me? Look at Europe, look at their VAT's. How they came into being, what they started with and where they are now... You're playing with fire guys, and we're all gonna get burned as a result..

Maybe going a bit off base here but since this IS the political forum I think anything is fair game.

List your favorite taxes... In order of most regressive to leastregessive.


I'll start:

Gas Tax
Sales Tax
Income Tax
Wealth Tax

The last one on the list is not currently taxed. You can have a bazillion dollars invested in municiple bonds, real estate, etc... and they have their own tax rules.

What if we said that we need to look at your portfolio of holdings and then tax you at say 1% of your net worth.?

Me, with debts like mortgage, credit cards, student loans, etc. I'd be negative. Look at any high level government official.. Obama, Kerry, Clinton, Franks, Dodd... See what thier wealth is and see what they pay on income.

We are getting f***ked.

mawshj
 

In order to be fair to the brick and mortor stores ,just remove the sales tax from them. it seems that each person who is elected feels that they must find new sources of income. I believe that they should do a better job of spending what they already have . direct and indirect taxes on working folks is above 60%. when they have it all they will have to stop taxing and they can only spend what they can borrow and we know where tha goes.

I couldn't agree more. The whole idea of a "sales" tax is revolting and alien to me. WHAT gives anyone the idea that the government should be owed money for a transaction between two private citizens is beyond me. Where did this notion come from?

To follow up with your thinking Destroyer:
"None more delusional than to ignore what they already know."

I am all for removing sales tax off brick and mortar stores, just not willing to hold my breath til' they get that done. I live in the real world where sales tax is a reality.

What rights do the:
Feds have to tax your income? Where did that notion come from?
States have to jack up the sin tax on cigs or alcohol?
Feds have to decide what is healthy for you and your children?
States have to set a speed limit on a highway?

I agree in severely downsizing our Govt.
I think the answer to all of the above is, Laws.
Repeal a couple hundred years of Federal and State Laws and send Congress home because they aren't near as smart as their predesessors that managed to get us to this point. First and Foremost- DO no harm.. Generations of BS laws swayed by the highest bidder.

What Willy said, just not as eloquently.

So E-bay sends me a form to fill out to let Congress know how much I dislike the Marketplace Fairness Bill. As a former E-bay customer they had my e-mail.

Not that I had any advance read of the bill but the one that passed the Senate calls for simplification of the Sales Tax. All but 6 States already have Use Tax in place already and the NEW law simply allows the States to collect the sales tax. IT DOES NOT GIVE FEDS THE AUTHORITY TO COLLECT SALES TAX.

Yet.........:devil:

:clap: Yet, true.

WOOT!!! We won one!!! After all the people and all the petitions bombarded Congress with millions of emails, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va) announced that his committee will not take up the Senate-passed tax on Internet sales.

WE, THE PEOPLE......did this.:party: