trailer brakes
 

i have a tandem trailer that i will be rebuilding for my 86 v20 with Johnson 150 outbd. i purchase two axles already and now i realize my combine trailer,boat weight, might be near the Florida limit of 3000 lbs for brakes required on a trailer. Can i weld brake flanges on the axles?
thanks
jetblue

Screw the Law!! I would not ever think of brakes on a boat!! Any time I have had them they no work in short order! Ma. requires them after a weight and I have ripped them out and threw away first sign of trouble!:bat: One more headache you don't need!!
I tow a 23' Sea Ox now, (about 6000# loaded ) and just bought a used trailer for it, tore the brakes out and put all new hubs on it. Tows great, and no breaks. Just slow down and watch the other drivers.

Jetblue319, I have to agree with Macojoe. I pull my V20 with a dual axle trailer using my 06 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited and the frist thing I did when I got the trailer was to take the brakes off. I haven't had any problems with stopping whatsoever. You just have to plan ahead for your stops and drive carefully as I'm quite sure that you already do. I see that you live in Florida as I do, so the only ones you really have to worry about making it an issue is Florida DOT cops. They look mostly for commercial vehicles and I've never heard of them stopping boaters to look at their brakes. The only time it would most likely be looked at is in a traffic crash if you were pulling the trailer. I know LOTS of cops that have boats larger than mine that took their brakes off. Just make sure your vehicle has adequate stopping power and you should be good. Just my .02 cents.

Being from Florida too, i dont want brakes on my boat trailer. just something else to go wrong.

Agree that it is something else to break BUT, they are handy in a panic stop situation. Kodiac SS disc brakes last a very long while and are easy to service. Weld the flanges on and do it. One axle with brakes should suffice.

Dunking trailer brakes in saltwater is part of a vast Illuminati conspiracy.
:zip:

also in fl, also no brakes, but the state is starting to shake the bushes looking fo ANY reason to give out tickets. i have never had them, but my tow is only about 4 miles round trip.

if you just bought the axels, maybe you can swap them for axels w flanges. if you weld them now, you will loose the galvanizing and they will rot pretty quick.

trailer brakes
 

guess i will take all your advice, and hold off for on those brakes for now, my trip to the gulf is only 50 miles round trip and only 10 to the bay from tampa. i plan to replace springs, axles. tires, this weekend.
thanks everyone jetblue

My experiance---get brakes on the trailer--I had to switch from drums(crap) as others have stated to Disc and have been ecstatic about the performance and NO issues with over 2 years on them and always in the saltwater. #2--If you do get in a accident and your insurance or the others insurance finds out--You are SCREWED!! It is cheap compared to what you could get sued for--above and beyond your insurance coverage--if they even cover ya.

Think about it seriously!!

Get rid of them drums and step up to the disc's.

There is my .02

I have disc brakes on mine...no trouble in over 3 years of use in both salt and fresh water...every time they go in salt I flush them well with fresh water.

Towing with my wifes Pilot, I would not want to go without them (it was right scary with my old trailer without brakes).

I would bet a V-20 fully equipped PLUS the weight of the trailer is at least 4000 pounds, that is like doubling the weight of a lot of tow vehicles.

I gotta go with Ridge and a few others here.. Brakes are NECESSARY not only for the possibility of not killing someone, but also (as was already stated) to keep your a$$ from a huge lawsuit should you ever get into an accident and they find you are over the weight limit with no brakes.

Look, there's a reason they make brakes for trailers. They help you stop, they help your tow vehicle stay in a straight line, they help you trailer stay in a straight line. Ridge said it correctly... put one set on the front axle. Disks are nice, Drums work well also. Forget about anyone saying they rot out. If you do your maintenance correctly they will last you years and years. The set of drum brakes on my ShoreLine tandem is at least 5 years old and they still work fine. The secret? ..... Wash them with fresh water after a trip to the salt. That means jack up the trailer, remove the drum and hit it with the garden hose. Yes, it's a pain, but water is cheaper than a new set of brakes or (even worse) an accident. DO IT!!.

Years ago I would have thought nothing of going without brakes but now I worry more about things like insurance, tickets and more importantly the safety of friends and family that might be in the car so I feel a lot more comfortable with my brakes.

To follow the letter of the law in many states, and I think Florida is one of them, you are required to have brakes on both axles if they are installed at all.

If you do go with a single axle install then I have to disagree with you about putting them on the front axle. While it seems like common sense that the front axle would be the best location froman engineering standpoint that is not true. The brakes will be more effective on the rear axle and here is why.

Look at the crappy drawing below and imagine the trailer is standing still with the road rushing under it and the hubs spinning in a clockwise direction. When the brakes are applied you are essentially trying to lock the hubs to the axle. The torque from the rotating wheel/hub is then transmitted to the springs. If this happens on the front axle then the forces will cause the front spring to act on the equalizer in a way that pivots it in a counterclockwise direction which will tend to unload the front axle while increasing the load on the rear axle.

If the brakes are on the rear axle then the rear spring is acting on the eqaulizer but the net result is the same except now the greater the torque the greater the dowforce on the axle with the brakes on it.

I actually witnessed a trailer with the front axle hopping under braking but at the time I didn't understand what was happening.

http://www.monkeybutler.com/tmp/Untitled.jpg


If you don't believe me then you can double check me here:

http://www.championtrailers.com/techsup.html

When only one brake axle is being installed on a tandem axle trailer, the brakes should be on the rear axle for maximum system performance. Rotational torque applied to axles during braking shifts the equalizer and applies more weight to rear axle. If brakes are installed on the front axle, the wheel may skid during braking. Brakes on rear axle are more effective as the equalizers shifts and the rear tires dig in to the pavement.

you are just as illegal in fl with no brakes as one set on a tandem axle.

Phat, obviously, do whatever the laws in your state require. I wasn't talking from a legal sense. More like what is the safe thing to do. I have a 98' Jeep Cherokee. I was towing my 21' Cruisers Inc. home a few years back.. Going down a hill, 35mph speed limit. Light at the bottom of the hill turned yellow about 40 feet from the stop line. Instead of trying to beat the light I hit the brakes.. With my Jeeps brakes locked up the weight of the boat and trailer pushed me halfway into the intersection before I stopped completely. Fortunately it was early AM morning and no cars were coming from the side directions... but I've never forgotten the fact that no matter how safe you "think" your vehicle is and how well you "think" it will stop you, there are ALWAYS situations when it will not stop you and you can get into an accident in the blink of an eye.

Look at it another way... how would you, or anyone here for that matter, feel if you were out driving and a vehicle trailering a boat hit your car broadside and killed one of your kids..... and then you found out that the trailer had no brakes, because the driver felt that they were a pain and "unnecessary"???..... Exactly......

Monkey, that's good info. I'll shift my brakes to my rear axle over the winter. Thanks!!!

list of things that are not needed.......... except for people unable to look into the future
seat belts
transom and bow tie downs
parachutes
safety chains
helmets
trailer brakes
health insurance
life jackets

D, i was just saying putting one set on a tandem in fl will not make you legal. i agree, brakes are totally unnecesary, unless u need to stop. and we all need to stop every now and then. i personally don't have then because my tow is very short & at low speeds. last time i towed to the keys, i didn't have them and got into jam on the turnpike. i managed to stop, but swore if i ever do that triup again, it will be with a set of brakes.

Taking the wind out of my sails thinking about pulling the drums to flush after every trip. That is taking maintenance to a new level. If that is what it takes, me no want.
Breakaway braking feature would be handy if/when the time comes, trailers breaking away from their tow at speed is a chilling thought.
For what it is worth, I liked how the Disk brakes performed under the Whaler. Front axle brakes only. If you got hard on the binders the stopping distance was nearly the same as the tow vehicle itself. The one axle braking power was very inspirational. Tires never locked up, if they had and the axle without brakes would keep her tracking straight. In 5 years I never had any problems.
Having said that I have never had brakes under the Wellcraft so Never a problem. The tow vehicle of sufficient size to offer some good stopping power sure helps when no brakes are the case.

I must say, that after reading replies on this, including my own, I'm rethinking not having brakes. I did take my drum brakes off when I first got the boat, but it was because they were rusted solid and basically fell apart when I initially removed the drums.

My tow is short and at low speeds, but the thought of sliding into an intersection and injuring or killing someone, is a little unnerving. I'm going to look at the possiblity of adding disc brakes to my trailer this winter.

Sadly, I should know better. I was a full time police officer here in Florida for 7 years and still do it part time. (Never a traffic cop, I worked narcotics, not that it's a defense.):sad:

It's actually quite easy to do. I have a floor jack that I use so the jacking is easy, I leave the tire on the drum and remove the whole thing as a unit. A little messy because of the greese, but really, it's an easy thing to do. Whole proceedure takes less than an hour for both wheels. I just look at it as part of cleaning my boat after an outing.

It's true that a nice heavy tow vehicle with good brakes does offer good stopping power to a trailer most times. (Except for that one time when the brakes fail or inertia is just a tad too much for them ... stuff like that.)

I installed Kodiac disc brakes on my front axle after coming home from Nags Head in heavy stop and go traffic and have never regretted it. I was pulling the V home after a week long vacation with the family and following three van loads of folks that all of a sudden decided to slam on the brakes and turn across traffic. I had no where to go, so I locked up the brakes and almost slid right into them. The boat pushed me so hard it felt like it picked up the rear of my 97 4x4 Tacoma. I got home ok and immediately got online and ordered a Kodiac disc brake kit and installed it on the front axle and now the boat stops me! Had them 3-4 years with no trouble at all. I wash them off whenever I use it, salt water or fresh, and am very pleased with their performance.

I would say put brakes on it. What are you using to tow with? I only had one axle set up with brakes on my v20 and it worked good, until the bearings burnt up and took out the brake shoes. I could still stop ok on the way home without brakes but i have a f350 crew cab. i dont think I would try it with my jeep. But some of you guys are in FL, i dont remember any mountains down there.
last year I was pulling my flatbed trailer. At a toll booth there was a state cop checking things out. My inspection was out so he made me pull into the parking lot. Checked the trailer out and the battery for the electric brake dissconnect was dead. He made me unhook the trailer and go buy a battery before I could move the trailer. $30 battery $100 no inspection fine and $60 fine for a dead battery, plus 1 1/2 hours added to my trip.

Exacctly. It's that one time that gets you into trouble. When I finally need to replace my brakes I'm going to go to a disk brake setup, just for the ease of it. I Have surge brakes, not electric, so I can't have the boat stop me, but it's like night and day with stopping with and without trailer brakes... without them you can feel the trailer/boat pushing you.. with them that sensation is gone.

At present I do not have trailer brakes although I cannot argue w/those who choose to have them. I DID upgrade my trucks brakes w/drilled and slotted rotors on all four corners...LOTS more stopping power.

If you decide to add brakes DO NOT use Tie-Downs...if you run across them they will be cheaper than Kodiaks and very tempting...My constant battle w/those brakes and Tie-Down corporate frustrated me to the point I removed them and have not replaced...the Kodiaks mentioned above are a much better choice...

Agreed on the brakes... although in all fairness I have to admit that on one of my trailers I have a Tie-down actuator and it's given me zero problems over several years of use. But I'm not a fan of their brakes.. they seem flimsy when compared to other brands.

Destroyer, TD seems to have their poop together on their actuator...I used the same one as well w/good result, although I did have to replace a master cylinder on one...

But the brakes are Mickey Mouse w/a two foot tail...I fought that battle for YEARS on all 4 wheels of the tandem I had with NO support from TD corporate...NOTHING...:bat: