V boats - rough water handling
 

Interested in feedback from guys who have ocean fished, and had to run seas - 3' -5' chop, and bigger swells.

Knowing these boats weren't really meant for offshore work, I have run in 3' - 4' white cap chop on the ocean and at about 4' was getting a few splashing over the bow a bit. I know it's a wet ride from spray, and I use the tabs just a touch to avoid excessive plowing into waves.

Who has some detailed experiences to share - plus ride comparison to other boats if you've had others in same size category.

Thanks

Fished several times with a buddy boat that was a 2003 Proline 20 or 21 Center Console. Everybody in my boat always walked off dry, everybody on the ProLine were soaked. My V20 took the rough water better, only dipped water once. We have run 8-10' seas once. We ran out 30 miles to the pipeline, about an hour and a half ride. Dropped anchor, and when i turned around to head back a wave rolled over the open cuddy and into the boat. I dont know what the hell happened to the water, flat calm seas had turned into six foot seas. Pulled anchor and headed in, it took us four hours to get in, and the swells finally got to a point where i thought they were ten foot tall.

I have fished in the above mentioned ProLine several times. Anytime we got in rough water, my back would hurt me for a week or so. Its a rough ride.

That's very interesting, thanks for the details.

I often catch rides in a 23' seapro, a 21' seapro, and an older 23' hydrasport (all center consoles). Id say it the 23s handle seas only a bit better than my V20, but the V is much drier than all three. I don't have trim tabs, and we push fairly slowly through anything 3-4 or bigger. I used to be gung-ho, but now that I'm a boat owner, I choose not to go if the forecast is 3-5 or worse.

Tabs made a big....make that huge difference with my V21. Just a little tab brings the sharp bow entry into the waves and cuts rather than the hull lifting and coming down flat.
I can now run 20 + mph through 2' + chop without pounding - at all.

I'm not one for pounding a boat so this is great now.
The watch out is not too much tab or it will dig too much, become a wet ride, and risk plowing the bow right in and through waves - especially running with the seas.

I had a 94' Mako prior to this boat. The ride was different, rode more " bow proud" preferring to rise up and over rather than tending to dig through waves. It would pound, even with tabs down, but was built like a tank. Overall a good rough water boat as I never took a wave over the bow.

Keep the stories coming.

All in all, I think the V20 runs very well in a lot of ugly conditions. The key is picking the right speed for the period of the waves. Sometimes faster is better.

If there is one sea condition that sucks in the V20 cuddy its a 3-4ft wind blown chop that is 2 feet shorter than the boat.
If you are going slow and don't pay attention and stay quartered, that big wide bow will dip in and shovel 30 gallons of water into the air, it will land on the bow and in a slight delay, ride up the windshield back into the air and drench the captain who's brother complains about not having an eisenglass enclosure....

I don't have tabs but typically have at least 20 gallons of extra gas in the bow when I head way out. I've been in 6-8 and building...not by plan. Mine is a center console. I've never taken one over the bow underway; ever. I rarely come home without a water-logged sack. Dry ride my boat is not.

When the seas get rough my primary concern is a following sea going through the inlet. I've had the boat surf down a wave face, that big flare dig in and spin me around like a top. I find taking a transverse course tacking through the inlet greatly reduces the chances of that occuring.

I used to run a 31' Fountain and never had that problem but it did beat me.

we must measure waves different, because a 10 ft wave would be all over my boat, a 10 ft swell is something else. mines no fun in 3-5.

That spin must have been intense.

Well my opinion on 5' plus seas on a 20 foot boat is that your gonna get wet. I fish my 24 albemarle in some pretty snotty weather and if it weren't for curtains you would be wet. I don't believe in a 20 or 24 foot "dry" boat. I remember our v20 when coming in from bluefin fishing being in 4 to 7 foot and being complety soaked, the entry on the other hand was soft and comfy,but with a quartering sea if you weren't hanging on she would just about throw ya overboard followed by about 10 gallons of water. This was also on a v20 with no tabs. I've been wet way to many times making that run in from offshore in all conditions . But once again the ride on a v20 is impecable,soft gentle entry yet wet. That's why my t-top with be surrounded with curtains. I have also fished on a 50 foot Paul Mann white marlin fishing in 10 to 12 foot slop and it was all you wanted, I shurely would hate to be on a v20 in those conditions. A lot of people do measure waves different.

With a bad back I don't push it too hard anymore. Ride quality on my 20 beats the 23' Whaler in the wind chop. The Whaler would wallow, I think the term used a while back was like riding atop meat loaf. Not a bad boat, just not as crisp in the tracking department. To the 20, I wet Reelapealin & CO. in the wind chop in Charleston harbor. LOL. Spareparts stayed completely dry that day in his Mckee Craft as I recall. If your patient you tend to stay dry. Never been in anything worse than 3 to 4. I stay away from inlets. LOL. Don't need to carry a change of drawers that way.

More interesting reading, thanks for the posts.

We're not talking about deliberately taking these boats out in rough conditions.........it's when you wind up in choppy seas. Sooner or later in the ocean it's nearly impossible to avoid encountering 2'-4' conditions.

Last friday the marine forecast for W 5-10 turned to S/ SE at 10-15-20 in the afternoon and seas built to 2's 3's and 4' whitecapped chop.

I had to quarter in some, and got wet. No big deal but at the time I was thinking how nice curtains would have been. Thing with curtains is, if you don't keep em' on all the time, I've found they tend to shrink.......just enough so snapping back in place can become a struggle. That plus in the summer - it gets hot in there ! That's another discussion.

Back to rough seas - also interesting that some of you guys fish these boats deep for tuna and such. I'm impressed. I'm about to invest in a PLB to enhanse my safety gear, but I fish mostly within 5 miles of shore......... I may run 20 miles south or north but still typically inshore.

Could rip across 2'-4' to an extent, but I won't beat the boat up that way.

Anyone have any other stories ? Always interesting reading.

Seriously speaking............... in worst case scenario......... pitch poling the boat, but let's say getting spun AND rolled over / swamped / boat upside down.
1. You're either thrown clear of the boat and in the water.
2. You wind up under the boat - hopefully with air pocket to breathe before dive under to come up to the surface.

Talking safety gear......... in example # 2......got to wonder if the life jacket would keep a person from being able to dive back under and come up to the surface. I don't know...... might have to remove the jacket, push it under and up, then swim up and try to put it back on. All that in rough seas.

Option # 1 while wearing life jacket would be the best outcome.

I now keep my type 1 lifejacket ( the offshore serious model) on the passenger seat in case I need to put it on. It's equiped with a sports whissle, and waterproof light.
I don't like wearing a preserver on calm days, summer heat but at least it's very close by.

I've spent alot of time thinking about that scenario during my current rebuild. Particularly in foam placement. My 81 had foam below deck. My line of thinking is that if the boat swamped, buoyancy low would cause the boat to turtle and roll. Now with the boat upside down the weight of the motor along with the lack of foam in the bilge area would cause the boat to sit not flat but at an angle. My primary concern is what would that angle be and would it be too steep to sit on top of the boat awaiting rescue.

With that in mind I wonder what I could do to make the boat less prone to that particular scenario.

Currently I keep a ditch bag equipped with a handheld waterproof GPS and a handheld waterproof VHF with 6 mile range, flares, and a strobe. The bag also acts as a flotation device.

MJ does...:)

The wife and I got pretty wet a few weeks back when it was very windy and choppy. Going at the waves at an angle, the wind picks up the spray and showers you. Big swells are swell. It's heading into a 3-5 ft chop with a strong wind that always gets me.

rkc

We fished our v20 as a kid with my dad in places were 20 foot boats really don't belong. We had her out fitted with twin 20 gallon acid jugs mounted to the sides of the console full of gas, along with 2 30 gallon external tanks. We would burn off the external or portable tanks first then burn the main 50 gallon tank to get home. That was back in the day when a SeaRanger LoranC and a Sea King paper bottom was top of the line!!!!!! We were also very good friends with a lot of the mates and captains with the main fleet out of Rudee Inlet,so we were always in very close distance to a charter boat. My dads major fear was always fire!!!! No smoking was allowed!!! The fleet used to call us the floating bomb. But we fished the hell out of that boat almost every weekend.

Any rough sea condition stories to share ?

Really the worst one we had was coming in from tuna fishing. The blue water was laid out slick but we could see the summer storm built up on the beach. We got into the green shallow water as we hit the thunderstorm about 18 miles off the beach. We got a little further inside about 8 miles and she turned into a **** storm!!!!! The swell was fastly wind blown so the waves were just about ontop of each other. It was about consistent 6 foot with the occasional doubled up 8 footer. I will never forget it. I was 13 years old. We had one or two bow dips and loaded the boat with about 8 to 10 inches of water but it all rolled right out the back. That was the worst I've ever been in a v20

This phenomenon appears to have been first investigated in 1861:

http://www.boatingmag.com/skills/sea...ng-wave-height

http://www.answers.com/topic/wave-height-2

P.S. I'm not trying to call anyone out on their estimates, just presenting some information as food for thought.

Interesting, water flowed out the back.......... that is the good thing about a lower transom.
The V21 had the removable elevated transom rod holder - good thing to remove in case of really rough water on the bow.........

There's a video readily available showing aircraft carrier hitting a reported 90' wave.
It's a rough day, and the ship hits a set of two - take a look.

Anyway, most of us probably do over estimate wave height, but rough is rough. If you're looking up at the wave tops from the boat - it's rough alright.

Any more stories with details ?

I took these in the Med...These were 30' ish

That's a 450ft frigate bobbing up and down. I'm on a 550ft destroyer trying to come along side that oiler to take on fuel....we didn't get any. Kept popping the hose and spraying the deck with JP3.

Man that brings back memories... :clap: Worst one we were ever in was in the tail end of a hurricane in the Atlantic.. Wind was down but the seas were still pretty high... Finally had to abandon the refueling...even on the leeward siide the waves were too rough to get close. The tanker kept drifting in, impossible to hold course. From one tin can sailor to another...thanks!!! :beer:

You ever fed a white marlin up hill in 10 to 12 foot ? I have! lol!!! No $hit!! i sat in on a charter my brother was mating on and they insisted on fishing that day and the captain let them have there way. One of the guys broke his ankle going to the bathroom on the way in and the rest of them stayed mostly sick all day ( they were from Ohio). We went 1 for 2 on the white ones that day and caught one yellow fin. we broke the inlet that morning it was a ****ty 8 foot and steadily got bigger the further we got off shore. we were on a 50 foot custom carolina boat. roughest ive ever been in. Really didnt need a wave chart that day instead we had 65 total years experience combined to judge the wave height.

Skunk, awesome pics!!!!

well, back on the subject of waves...

There's 3-5 and there's 3 -5. One can be ugly and dangerous and one can be a beautiful day on the water. The wind and period of the waves tells the story. A long period (8,9, 10 seconds) from a far off storm and a light local wind can be a great day even though the forecast 3-5 or 4-6 looks bad. You absolutely can't rely on the wave height forecast alone. Look at surfer websites to get detailed height/period/direction/wind. And look at the beach cams. ANd some guys can look at the local NOAA bouy data to see the real data and the trend.

And here in NJ there can often be a "Small Craft Warning 4-6ft winds NW 20-25kts.." But that NW or W direction means its flat from the beach to 1/2mile or more. I catch more stripers in November on days like that than in any other month or sea condition.

Like I said, I wasn't trying to call anyone out on their estimates of wave height; I was just presenting some information that i thought might be pertinent to the discussion. What you do with the info is up to you. I think the majority of people on this site are very experienced and can estimate waves just fine.

FWIW, I got my introduction to boating at the Vermilion Yacht Club (on Lake Erie) and my first day "at sea" was was in a little 10' or 12' Gull (that's a fairly small sailboat) with 6ft waves (at least that was the height according to the instructor. Lake Erie is fairly shallow so the waves kicked up kicker than they expected else they would have delayed the first outing). The boom smacked me in the head on a bad jibe at the crest of a wave and gave me a mild concussion. I was maybe 10 or 12 years old at the time (can't remember exactly. weird!). So I do know a little about about rough seas, and I remember that those waves sure looked bigger than 6ft! I would have sworn they were taller than the boat was long. It was an experience I have never forgotten but still think about fondly for some odd reason.

Didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers.Carry on.

We've migrated some from V boats so might as well.......

Worst I ever saw was from my family's 21 T Craft (much like the V ) as a Hurricane was headed offshore up the coast.

Knew it was an incoming tide so figured I'd just zip over towards the inlet and see what it looked like. Bay on Long Island was absolutely flat, no other boaters and headed to the mouth of the inlet.

Sat there in the boat in inky flat calm looking just about 50 feet ahead of me where the wave line started. Unbelieveable with huge seas just beyond that, progressively bigger to monsterous confused breakers beyond. I was very young but not all that stupid as I knew with the incoming if my engine died I'd still be in the flat calm, floating back in the bay. Kind of stupid but much like the camera boats that film surfers on huge waves, close up.

Naaa...no ones feathers were ruffled...relax. We tend to present differing opinions all the time on this site...but it's done for information reasons, not to retaliate or call someone a boob. It's how we learn. BTW, I found that info most interesting.. I've been Navy and small boats all my adult life (40+ years)and that's the first time I've ever heard that. It makes sense. Thanks

No feathers ruffled here my friend. Actually I completely agree with with you and your post. Yea lake Erie seems like she could get pretty rough!

Excellent insight IMO. Roughest day for me it was out of Kawai on the Kai Bear. 8' and snot-ty. Older 38' Bertram. I was happy to downgrade to half-day. Had one beer at roughly 10:00 a.m. I saw the beer again at 11:00 and 11:30 and I never get seasick.. Wife was a trooper on that trip. Noxious diesel was the final straw for me. Offered to buy the first few rounds on the hill and that was that after 3 hours of up and down sideways nothing biting. Took us 15 minutes to get back to port at trolling speed, never more than a few miles from port all day.
I try not to overestimate wave size.
If you want to see some big stuff just watch Deadliest Catch, in particular the end of this years Kingcrab season.

In the CG I was on the bridge of a 200ft ship watching waves go over the bow. By my estimate they must have been 500-600ft waves. :hi:

Seriously, I always went by the rule of take a guess of how big they look and divide that in half.

rkc

I got you all beat.......

Was supposed to get an overhaul on the boat but we decided to go anyway so off to the Flemish Cap we went.....

A little trying gettin out there. Two of the guys were fighting until one of em got a hook in his hand and went overboard and the other guy he was fightin with saved his life, then they were buddies after that.

Then we almost had a Mako eat one of us before we got into some good fishin. Man we were killin it!!!! Tons of fish comin up before our ice machine went down and we had to turn home but we had a small problem......

A nasty storm was comin right at us!! Two of em actually!!! We decided that unfortunatley the best decision was to just plow right through them. So we did and we almost went down at first when one the birds got stuck on the rigger, PITA!!!! My buddy had to go out there and bust the chain with a torch to right us back up, pretty scary......

After that it was nasty and gettin worse until we came face-to-face with the biggest swell I ever saw in my life, at least 10-stories tall. It beat our boat right into the white-water and many lives we lost. The only reason I made was that I was clingin to the ship's supplies of Funyans, boy we loved our Funyans back then and I owe my life to em.....

Crazy story......someone could probably make a pretty good movie about it if they wanted to.......
:clap::clap::clap:

Let me guess- The Perfect Storm............ which really was exceptional.
It wasn't forecast to be so bad the day before.
That morning, I was driving early from south jersey for meeting at LaGuardia airport, NY.
Found it very interesting that 1st time ever, my windshield wipers were frequently being stopped 1/2 way by the wind......Got to LaGuardia, NY weather station was discussing the gale and Low Pressure System retrograding down the coast. Well, I got to see the bay - waves hitting the airport breakwall, with huge waves of spray blowing across the runway and grounded planes. Wind was blowing 40 with gusts to 70. That's the storm that beat up former President Bush Sr.'s N. England home. People in New England said they never saw waves so big - hitting the coast. Our New Jersey coast saw the same, with massive coastal flooding. Of course, the Andrea Gail went down in that storm, with all souls lost. If you haven't read the book by Sebastien Junger, I recommend it- better than the movie.

That Perfect Storm - it was Hurricane Grace headed north into a low pressure system connected to a cold front. The Hurricane was " jet fuel" to the storm and as the giant low pressure developed, it did retrograde S/ SW from off New England to off Montauk, NY area.

Google the infared and satellite photo of that storm - there's a lot of good info available.

Anway, back to V boats, and rough water handling.

Here is my worst day on the water!! July 25, 2007 day after my B Day

http://wellcraftv20.com/community/sh...t=10+foot+wave

^^^Holy sheep man! Good idea with turning out of the roll. It sounds like it was a slower process than I would have imagined if you had time to get boots off.

I've thought about that same scenario. Do you think a couple large scuppers to the bilges below deck would have helped the bailing situation? I've thought about putting (2) 1.5" in set off the deck about a half inch

Has to be above deck!! But the I/O deck in 1975 all went to the motor well, was not sealed off! I have 4 pumps in the sea ox these days and it is also a self baling deck.

Four pumps in the Sea Ox boat ? Wow - reminds me of the tug boats on 4th of July - spraying all those water cannon !!
Do you use those pumps to fire water at other boaters ?

Lake Erie is a nasty little sucker. She turns from a nice two foot chop to bringing some nasty stuff in a matter of minutes. Can be a bad time if you aren't paying attention. She's only 50-55 feet deep and the deepest points from the western end of the central basin and to the west you're lucky to see 35'

Great fishin though