200 Mercury 2.5L opinions
 

I found a pair of 225 Optimax engines locally for sale for $3500 each. I only need one for the V but need some thoughts on how the Optis perform. I know it is heavy at 497lbs. I know they are DFI. But talking with the marine mech instructor today at school he said they are prone to predetonation. Is this a problem with them? They are 2002 models hours unknown. The dealer will back them with a thirty day warranty which is useless because my v is too far apart to run it. Any advice is appreciated.

I would go with an 04 or newer if it was me. Up to early 03 they still had quite a few problems with the OPTI's.

I see a bunch of those motors running around here, Biggest key to keeping them alive is good gas, the good DFI oil($$$), and running ring free or carbon guard in each tank of fuel. Those motors are heavy, but they are fairly fuel efficient. Biggest draw back to the opti's are the stuff on the outside of the block(compressor, fuel pumps, injectors, sensors, etc) can cost more to replace than the power head itself. Look real hard at the pivot shafts and steering arms on those motors, for that price, they probably came off of a kingfish boat with a couple thousand hours on them

I had a 2001 -225 Opti and currently run a 2003 -250 Opti. Neither have high hours,(600 to 700) the 225 was near trouble free, a harness replacement under warranty, a poppet valve after warranty and plugs for good measure at 500 hours. Always ran ring free and tried to keep non-ethanol in the tank.
The 250 is new to me, but the history has it as trouble free thru the warranty and a denied claim for a compressor replacement sometime shortly after the warranty ran out. As an XS motor it requires 91 octane or better, I mostly run 93 octane with 10% ethanol.
The compressor seems to be the weak link IMO but I have no personal experience there. I have heard of some coil issues from other owners.
X2 what Ferm said, The later ones are better. With the early ones you either got a good one or you didn't. Early on Merc was replacing lots of powerheads with less than 50 hours, if the Merc owners knew then what they know now, there would have been some litigation over the frequency of the compressor failures. Merc claims the Compressor has been redesigned.
The go-fasts are starting to warm up to the Direct Injected Mercs. Dave Bush has a Level 1 kit that hops up the 300xs Mercs. They are making reliable power at 15 to 20% over stated hp. The internals seem to be stout and they have thousands of hours of testing time running them hard on the dyno. The tuners seem impressed with what Merc engineers have come up with. (meaning they had to do some serious homework and testing to better what the factory came up with.)
I wouldn't shy away from one so long as it checks out. They are heavier than advertised by a touch. It would be hp a plenty for a V20 they are snappy and fuel efficient. Talk the dealer into 30 days from initial water test on the warranty. That would be the only fair way to ensure you got what you paid for.

Thanks for the replies everybody. Couple more questions. Is there any way to find out the hours? What controls do i need, digital or mechanical? And what about the oil injection system? Should i plan on removing it? Right now i am awaiting an answer on a loan from my credit union. I planned to purchase an outboard next tax season after rebuilding the V. If i get the loan it may throw a wrench into my rebuild plans and money. All depends on the payment.

You CANNOT remove the oil injection from a DFI engine. DFI engines inject the fuel directly into the combustion chamber, so NO fuel goes through the crankcase, only air and oil that is injected. Most newer DFI's inject the oil directly into the main bearings now to furthur reduce oil consumption, and with no fuel going through the internals of teh engine to wash the oil off they use even less oil. DFI's though are VERY picky about what oil you use, and should only use an ashless 2 stroke oil with carbon removing additives which means you need to run a DFI oil(conventional 2 strokes do not have the carbon build-up problems as the fuel going through the engine prevents it. OPTI's though also use the oil to lubricate the air compressor, so cheap oil will not only carbon up the engine, but will trash the compressor with it. MANY DFI engine failures are DIRECTLY a result of using cheap oil in them. OPTI's are not bad engines, aand neither are the FICHT's, but early ones did have growing pain issues as it was such a new technology. As for how to tell the hours, a MERC dealer can hook it up to the scanner and tell you as the ECM keeps track of how many hours and at what RPM's.

Thanks Ferm. I looked up the Merc Opti/DFI oil and found it for $26a gallon. Not too bad. Although amazon wanted $66 per gallon, had me scared for a minute. What about the controls? Are these digital or mechanical? I hope to do like Ridge said, and try to get my warranty after i mount the outboard. Then i will run the piss out of it. As you can tell i do not know alot about dfi. I have only owned carbed motors. So bear with me.

I believe most of the OPTI's can be used with the regular MERC cables and wiring harness's like the older carbed engines used. They also have hook-ups though for the smartcraft if you want to use the SMARTCRAFT guages and controls as well.

Looking at gauges already and i like the Mercury Flagship gauges. Smartcraft gauges are nice but dam that sounds expensive. Should know tomorrow about my loan. Is there any way to identify if a compressor has been replaced? I will be able to look at the engines next week, I may put a deposit on one and take it to a MarineMax and let them look it over and check hours, compression, etc.

I talked with some of the guys at marine mech at school today and i am beginning to think they are biased against MERC. So i decided to stop listening to them. :fight: Especially when they mentioned "pOptimax" :you: Before i knew it i was hearing bs about getting an OX66 or a suzuki. (i just bought a suzuki car and not impressed with it and its check engine light that wont stay off, so yeah, piss on suzuki, might even change my avatar back)

Early 150/175 OPTIMAX's earned the reputation OPTIPOP's for injector problems that caused powerheads to go left and right, and also early on MERC reccomended there regular oil which was found to have caused alot of issues as well. SUZUKI makes a DAM FINE outboard, so they are right on that one.

Any Merc dealer can plug the serial number into the Mercury database and pull up the warranty history. The ECM holds the hours of operation that can only be accessed with a technicians diagnostic computer. Some scanners have printing capability and you can get a printout. Ask the dealer if you can talk to the previous owner. That can be a dealbreaker in itself, some dealers will cooperate, some will not..same rings true with previous owners..

Early on I heard the terms "Optipop","POPTIMAX", and worse.
Reelapeelin had a friend with a pair of early Optimax motors that had a ton of hours without problems. Opinions vary, but I have not heard of any reoccurring lean run conditions. Bad fuel? Definitely!
There is a lot of electronics in the modern day outboard as Spare pointed out. Opti's have a lot more going on under the lid than an OX66 Yamaha. One of the most durable motors Yamaha made, but like the EFI Mercs in that they love fuel.. Direct injection is more complex than carbs and crude EFI's but they get double the mileage. In head to head testing the Opti seems to beat out the 4-strokes on performance and mileage then gets slammed for noise and lack of perceived refinement. In the DI class the new Etec's are quiet compared to the Optimax. Finding a 10yr old Etec is gonna be impossible, but OMC did make the Ficht. I know nothing about the Ficht.
Ferm is right on the money about the harness and controls. I have had a 200 carbed, a 250 EFI and now have the 250 Opti on the back of the V-20 and it was always plug and play. The late model Opti's have a different looking harness but from the late 80's up to 03 the harness is the same on the Mercs.
Without Smartcraft the warning buzzer lets you know when something is out of whack with the Opti. With Smartcraft gauges you see what is wrong on a LCD display along with a ton of other info, but not 100% necessary. Analog gauges work just fine for tach/water pressure/temp/volts etc.

Ridge i have done alot of business with this dealer. That may be to my advantage. MarineMax is the only MERC dealer in my area. I may take both motors to them. Then i could pick the best although i dont see too much problem except prop choices if i end up with a counter rotator. I did not know SmartCraft did more than rpm temp etc. It may be worth looking into. Ferm one Suzuki is enough for me now. Although i must admit $20 in gas per week vs $85 for my 6.5 diesel is pretty nice. As for outboard noise i could care less, the louder the better n my opinuon.

Just got off the phone with MarineMax. If the motor is mounted and turn key its $225 for a computer scan comp test visual inspection etc. That would mean i would need controls and everything. If they have to jury rig something it will be expensiver. Labor rate is $99 per hour. That also includes tank testing. With the serial number they can find out everything done. So Ridge and Ferm yall know your stuff!, even though i already knew that. So if i decide to get the motor i need to find controls and switch before i take it. Maybe the dealer who has the motors will let me borrow the controls?

If your buying both motors, you can pick and choose which gets the counter-rotating lower unit. They are interchangeable (shift cable would need to be reversed at the control box for counter). There are a lot of props for a left hand lower, I don't think you are too limited there..
Opti's figure fuel burn down to molecule so with the Smartcraft you can get Trip in miles, average MPG, instantaneous GPH and MPG in addition to volts,engine tilt, engine temp, speed, water pressure, barometric pressure, water temp, outside air temp, hours, oil tank level,fuel level(with optional sender) trolling speed function is configurable as well. They have several gauges avail, the typical tach and speed gauges are the most common, each one has a analog sweep plus a LDC display at the bottom OR they have a single gauge setup that is all LCD OR they now have vessel view monitor that is like a chartplotter for your engine with a color display. The sky is the limit... You decide on how much info you really want or need for the $$$.

No no no! Lol. I cant afford both motors though it would be nice to have a spare. I might be going with a smart craft gauge. It is not as much as i thought. Vessel view is out of the ballpark for me.

Awaiting a call back for a serial number because my loan is approved!!

Just looked at the motors. They have four. Two 1999's and two 2001's. Upper and lower cowlings have been off since November. Right now they are outside in the elements leaned up against pallets. They said they were on pallets but i did not think like that! Am i being too paranoid about this? I imagine the ecm would not like getting rained on for seven months.

They need a couple days to get them together and see which are which. Then i get to pick the one i want. The tags are hard to read, where else are the serial and model numbers for these engines?

Paint is good on the newer one, cowlings look good. Steering shafts and tilt tube looks good on the one newer engine.

They will have their mechanic do a comp test and run etc free of charge. If i leave it with them they will not start my warranty until i install it on my boat.

make sure and be there when they start em. If they hook it up to a premix tank of fuel and not hook up the oil system RUN as fast as you can from em. I wouldn't be worried to much about the ECM's, but the compressor I WOULD be worried about.

Ferm from what i learned from you, Ridge, and everyone else, premix oil does not lubricate the compressor right? Make sure its clear fuel right?

The compressor and the engine is ONLY lubed via the oil injection system, so if they don't hook up the oil injection and just try to run it on premix there is NO oil going through the important parts of the engine. When you see somebody do this, you have to ask yourself what else have they done they shouldn't have?

Gotcha. I should have taken my camera but i forgot it this morning. Just put it in the car ten minutes ago. Staring at this engine was like staring at the guts to the International Space Station. I was clueless. I did see the engine oil reservoir, so i know it needs to have oil in it before running. The way it was positioned it was hard to get a good look at everything.

I am considering building a stand for it and getting a motor cover for when i leave it at their shop until my boat is ready which might be February at the earliest. I don't want to "wear out my welcome" so to speak but yet i have a check for $3500 for them on an outboard i haven't even seen put together and running. Is building a stand and asking them to keep it covered too much to ask?

Also they said they can get me the controls and cables for $150 not sure what brand. Once we can find a serial number i can find out what these engines have and dont have.

Geez, you would think if they wanted to sell the motors they would have made them presentable... I don't think any electronics would do well subjected to the elements for long. Those Opti's have a throttle body that point up, so if all the plastic intake garb isn't intact they may have injested some rainwater from sitting uncovered. Sounds like a good time for pause and reflection..

Actually i asked to see them. Otherwise i would never had known they way they were stored.

I called about one serial number she gave me, it came back to a 2002 Opti counter rotating 30" shaft from Boca Raton (i think i spelled it right). I know for a fact there is a 1999, and a 2001. So the 2002 may be the newest, but how would a 30" shaft affect a V20. I understand i can just move my bracket up more to compensate, but what about the stability? Would the powerhead being higher up cause the boat to roll more?

Talking with MarineMax now they say to stay away from Opti's because parts are becoming hard to get. Truth or more BS?

And finally i found this in Miami. Talked with the seller and it includes wire harness, ignition, prop, but no controls for $3900. May be worth a drive. http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/2985307886.html

And this is close, but being a 1999 I am not sure, but its $3000 http://okaloosa.craigslist.org/boa/3016491604.html

Just talked to the dealer about the 1999. It has been off since February but on a stand covered up. $3000 is just for the motor and prop. Never had a replaced powerhead or any major service. Its had all the annual service since new.

As previously mentioned I had a 2000. It was a great motor but with low hours. The only part that I am aware of as being "hard to get" is the SmartCraft style gauges, they are NLA from Merc for the older Opti's. It has been that way for a while now so all of the gauges sitting on dealers shelves have been scavenged up too.. Maybe those MMax guys opinions are based on experience, maybe they know something I don't, I am just a consumer.. dealers can be biased. LOL

I keep looking at the 1999 on CL. I have the gut feeling my money is better spent on it. Plus that leaves me with enough money to get controls. But it has no warranty. Come to think of it most used motors do not come with a warranty. I asaume 650 hours is low hours. Alot to think about.

while researching what the bluewater series Optimax was i found a thread on continuous wave. The 99 /00 Optimax did not have problems like the next two years which is linked to a different supplier of major components. Not sure of the credibility of this. But the bluewater series has a stainless tilt tube.

Ridge looking at pictures online, on none of the engines i can see the flywheel and belt. Its covered up by a plastic piece. Is this the intake garb? If so none of the engines at the dealer had that on them. On every one of them the rusty flywheel is not covered at all along with the alternator and compressor.

At this point I would PASS as fast as you can. From the sound of these engines, they have not been cared for. OPTI's are good engines, but they will NOT withstand abuse and neglect like the old carbed engines could.

Ferm what about the 1999 i linked above? That was my backup plan.

Personally I would wait until the boat is done. Buying an engine in the fall or winter will save you some money as well. Early summer is the worst time to buy an engine as everybody is trying to buy an engine to get out on teh water for summer which drives the prices up.

Like i said i wanted to wait until tax season but i found these. Now i have the loan approved and a $3500 check in the truck. Its costing me $150 a month for this loan. So i figured i might as well use it.

Ferms thoughts were going to be echoed by me but I understand, you got the sickness.. :beer:
Sort out what you can when you can so when the boat is done you can jam on the rigging and get er done..

Regarding the plastic intake stuff, the flywheel cover missing would not necessarily mean water in the throttle body. That piece covers exactly what you said. The piece in the very front that clamps over the throttle body and serves as the front mount for the flywheel cover is the one of concern.(Nobody would need to remove it to remove the motor so it is probably a moot point) BUT With it missing and the motors stored upright the throttle body becomes a funnel.. Still, with the flywheel cover removed the air compressor has its air intake exposed that could allow water to enter there. It faces straight up and actually pulls air from the front (where the air filter is) through the flywheel cover and into the compressor. The more I think about it, I think I would walk away briskly.
Too many motors for sale, as you know.

could you take the check back to the cu, repay the loan & establish a $3500 line of credit.when you find the deal & check it out, then go and get the money. having to pay $150 a month would make me want to jump on something pretty quick.
have you checked the mobile craiglist. they are not far from you and a larger market. i'll keep an eye out over here in pc.

Phat i appreciate it. I will talk with the credit union tomorrow. I checked mobile and no luck. So my two options now are a 1999 in fort walton and a 2002 in miami. Both have 650 hours.

Ridge i am not even thinking about the first motors anymore.

Too heavy and too much power?

http://pensacola.craigslist.org/boa/3028075545.html

I have one more option, its a 2003 Optimax 25" shaft. Emerald Coast Marine just quoted a repower on a boat powered by twin Opti's. He said to give him a couple days to find out if they do it or not.

If this one falls through i am giving the check back and trading my GMC for a Ford F150 4x4.

The guys I know with the ox66 say they are great motors, but a bit thirsty. Also think that 250 be way more then the V can handle.

Stay away from Ford!

What about the Yami 350 hp V8 ? Only weighs around 800 lbs......

Figure we should get 65 mph before the transom tears off and the boat sinks.

The way i am building my bracket it will have to tear the stringers, and the whole bottom of the boat out for five feet! Besides i wont pay $25000 for a four stroke Yamaha.

Yup, I've gone with used outboards my last four boats, all good if you're careful picking.

[QUOTE=jasoncooperpcola; and too much power?


there is no such thing as too much power. If I came across one of those motors for a good deal it would be on the back of my boat faster then it takes me to type this response