Suitable helm replacement??
 

Hello All
Just found this great forum and was hoping someone would have the answer to my question:
I have a 1985 V-20 Steplift w/ mid-90's 150 Yamaha. The steering went out on me Sat., 8 miles out in the gulf. I've determined that it is the gears in the helm that are broken. At first I still had port steering, only the starboard steering was out. Somewhere between the slow trip home the port steering went out as well.
My question: Is this http://www.outdoorsuperstore.com/pro...sp?prod=254135 a suitable replacement for my current setup. I'm almost positive it's the original helm that I have now.
Any advice or links to other products would be greatly appreciated.
I'm not looking to go to hydraulic or upgrade to something that I don't need. I just want my steering back on my beloved (and well-used) v-20.
Thanks
Ragan

Welcome to the site!!

You need to look at the end of the cable that goes into the helm and make sure you match it up to be the same.
Some have a pin that you have to pull to lock them in.

You will also need a puller to get the steering wheel off, try spraying it for a day or so first to loosen the rust.

When reassembling use antiszee so it will always come off again with out problems

go to ebasicparts.com and get a complete no feedback helm/cable kit. usually if the helm fails, its because teh cable is getting stiff. One usually follows the other, if you can't come up with the money for the nofeedback, go with a rotory set up. try Uflex brand, they are substantially cheaper than teleflex or Morse (same company now). To use the helm you have listed, it will have to be the safe T-Type cable in the boat. Look at the helm you have now and see if it has a large hairpin holding the cable in place

you might want to get the cable length and price the NFB helm unit(no feed back). i had the regular unit and wanted to go hydraulic, but the cost was too much. somebody on here suggested that as an alternative and i love it. fits in the same holes, but steers like hyd. i have also been told that if you change the helm and not the cable, it will cause premature wear in one or the other.
what part of the gulf? i'm in north fl
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...2&classNum=693

This is the unit, but i thought i got a kit with the cable for about $175 from a local marine vendor.

Thank you for all of the quick replies.
I'm going to try to remove the helm/wheel tomorrow. I'll take some pics so that I can show exactly what my current setup looks like. I know that it is one cable that goes into the helm and it loops around to come out the bottom.

phatdaddy, I live in Panama City, FL. I mostly dive/spearfish w/ a little bottom fishing on the side.

pulling the wheel is a two person deal, loosen the nut holding the wheel to the helm, but don't take it all the way off. Have a helper ready with a suitable punch and a good size hammer, while you are pulling back on the wheel(go ahead and get your legs inot it and pull real hard), have the helper line up the punch on the shaft, and smack it with the hammer. it will usually break the wheel loose of the tapered shaft, there are some that will require heat or a puller, but 9 out of 10 will come off like this. You leave the nut on while doing this so you won't end up in the back seat when it comes loose

Thanks for the tip.
I went outside tonight and removed the nut, then tugged on the wheel a few times. I got it to budge about an 1/8", just enough to spray some PB Blaster on both sides and let it sit overnight.

Gofish, small internet, i'm also in pc. i live downtown near the city marina, if your intown call boat works on 11 th st and get a price on the helm unit, on the beach, call panama marine on the curve by capt anderson's.

Make sure you get pic's!!!:clap:

Cool, I actually live in Lynn Haven, but nobody outside of PC knows where that is. I'll give boat works a call tomorrow after I figure out exactly what type of helm I need.
My (limited) experience w/ panama marine has always been that they are overpriced. (I'm a poor married man w/ 2 kids)

Welcome to the site!!!

Definately get the NFB steering!

You will also want to check the steering tube the engine is mounted on. Remove the bolt that connects the steering cable to the engine tiller, you should be able very easily move the motor back and forth. If not, you'll have to start freeing up that pivot tube. A heat gun a grease goes a long, long way. The heat gun is a must!.

Pics
 

Okay, I went out and took some pics. Can't get the wheel off yet, waiting on a buddy to come over and help.
If anyone can identify the type of steering I have currently, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks
Ragan

looks like a Teleflex rotary, from what the cable looks like, I would definately replace both. Look on the cable near one end or the other for some white writing, it will have the cable part number and a lot of other stuff written on it, its usually within 2 ft of the end, normalyy on the back side of the cabel where you can't read it. All you are interested in is the length, usually given in inches, last number after the part number. If you can't find a good deal on a cable, let me know and I'll see if I can get you a price

Spare is right, juat get the number for the leanth, if you can't find it then when you get it off you will have to measure the old fashion way.
You should be replacing the whole thing looks pretty old.

Here is how to measure if you can't find the motor

http://www.downloadingfiles.co.uk/te...g%20Cables.pdf

Thanks for all of the help guys.
I didn't see any numbers or writing on either end, so I'll have to measure once I get it off.
From what I've read the motor has to be removed (or lifted) to get the new cable in. Is that correct? That's pretty much where I draw the line in DIY or having a professional do the job.

Well getting the motor to move is not a big deal, all you have to do is slide it over, get a strong friend you be ok.
The hard part is getting the old bolts out, some are pretty corroded in there! Just get a bigger hanmmer, and have some one trying to turn it at the same time.

No shop needed here just pure power!! I used a airhammer to bang mine out.

the trick in moving the motor around is raising or lowering the trailer to let the motor rest on the skeg, it will support the weight, just keep it straight up, don't let it go anywhere. I use a stand made from scrap 2X6's(use 2X8's on lower units with tall skegs) that I set lower units on when I'm working on them, that way teh weight is spread out over the bullet area of the lower unit.

Both of those suggestions sound like they would work pretty well for moving the motor. I guess I need to remove the helm first and go from there.

Does this system look like a comparable replacement to what I have:
http://www.boatstoreusa.com/productd...ProductID=1016
Like I said before, not looking to "upgrade", just want it back the way it was. I only have about $2000 in the whole BMT.
If either of you has another site w/ better prices or product, feel free to post some links, I'd appreciate it.

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/o...rearhatch1.jpg

gofish, this is my set up, 84 cuddy, and i have replaced mine without moving the engine. i take out the rod box on the starboard side and pull the slack in the cable to the middle of the boat. then do the same for the helm area. i know its always mo money mo money witha boat, but if you can change both and go NFB. i think the cable length is 17.5 ft. just a guess but you can get some prices with that figure.

that other system looks like a replacement, but i'm pretty sure the system you have is a teleflex helm & cable. i have never used or seen the roflex utech system, but it looks like knock off of teleflex.

Uflex was the manufacture that used to make the cables for teleflex before they(the teleflex name) were bought by Morse. I've used plenty of U-Flex without any complaints. Its not the "red jacket Morse" quality but its prety good. Go back to the home page for that sysm you have listed, on that page they offer the teleflex no feed back for a little more. The no feed back is worth the extra money

I got the steering wheel off without too much fuss. By the time my buddy got over to help me I had sprayed it 3 or 4 times w/ PB Blaster. I pulled on the wheel and he hit the shaft w/ a hammer and it came right off after a minute or two.
I started to remove the helm, first two hex bolts came out fairly easliy, but the third stripped out. All I had was standard size hex but it was actually metric. Gonna try the correct size metric tomorrow and hopefully get it out w/o having to get creative. I knew before I did it I should just wait until I had the metric, but stupid me tried it anyway.
After I get the helm off tomorrow I'll know exactly what was in it and go from there. Sounds like unanimously I should get the NFB. The thing is, I don't think I had it before and I could literally go ten minutes without touching the wheel on a 1-2 ft seas day.
Another problem, as I mentioned earlier, is I'm pretty strapped for cash right now (stupid Christmas presents), and I'd really like to get it fixed ASAP. The great powers that be have decided that we don't need to catch any grouper during Feb and March because they'll all die and become extinct if we do. Pretty much that means I won't be diving during Feb and March so I need to get my fix before then. (I know I sound like a crackhead, but trust me, spearfishing is very addictive).

Thanks again to all of the helpful responses. This site is AWESOME. Wish I would have found it sooner.

Hey phatdaddy, I recognize your V now that I see that great-looking Mariner on the back. I've said hello at the PC Marina ramp a few times.

Here's my rig:

whats the most you can spend?? This give us something to go by when looking.
SafeT is about $180 (same you have now) NFB is about $250 not that much more and a all around better system.

macojoe
I was definitely going to shoot for less than $200.

ok looks like a SafeT system, but see what spare comes up with.

safeT $175 http://www.boatersworld.com/product/358500718msk.htm

NFB $219
http://www.boatersworld.com/product/358501872msk.htm

Just the helm, but I would go all new and get it over with!!

You will also need to see if its the same as your cable $70
http://www.boatersworld.com/product/358500692.htm

Well, finally got the helm off today only to realize that it is in fact the cable that is broken. I'm going to order new helm and cable here:
http://www.boatstoreusa.com/productd...ProductID=1016
It is the exact same setup that I currently have (uflex rotary w/ planetary gears). I know the NFB would be nicer, but it's also more than double the money. And like I said before, I was completely happy w/ the way my V steered when it was working.
Thanks again to all who gave some great advice. Once I get the parts in and do the install, I'll post a report.

did you see this? http://www.boatstoreusa.com/productd...?ProductID=127 Even comes with a new wheel. Not sure about the 140hp part, Ive never seen a hp limit on single cable, I know they usually recomend dual cables on high speed set ups, but you won't need that for the V. Ferm, have you seen a hp limit on single cable? I know they use a hp limit on baystar hydraulic, but not on a cable

Wow, no I didn't see that. Thanks, may go that route now.

Thats a great deal with wheelm and all!!:clap:

gofish, is that the v that was on colorado ave in lynn haven, down the street from the yellow one. your wife worked at the school with mine? welcome aboard... before you order, at least call jimmy at boat works and get a price on the nfb. its been a couple of years, but i think i got mine for less than 200. if not i have a port supply acct i' can get a price. its usually not very much but you never know.

That would be the one. The house on Colorado was actually my dive buddy's house (doesn't live there anymore). Me, him, and another buddy originally went in together and bought the V, and then a year later he decided to buy a Wellcraft 230 Sportsman, so I ended up buying him and the other guy out of the V. (His 230 is out of commission right now as well, he bought it in Destin without a trailer and borrowed a trailer to haul it home. We used it a few times and then he had to get the trailer back to the person he borrowed it from, so it's up on blocks right now)

I haven't called boat works to see what their price is yet, I will definitely do that before I order anything. Gotta at least give the local guy a shot to come close to, or match, the deal on boatstoreusa.com for the Teleflex NFB helm and cable (and free steering wheel, which I don't really care too much about, I kind of like my rubber-gripped wheel.)
I'll let you know what he quotes me.

Keep in mind that your old steering cable may have been binding up, giving you a "NFB" feel to your steering. Either that or you already have NFB.

All the non-NFB systems I've ever used, you had to keep a grip on the wheel or do doughnuts.....(mmm, doughnuts) while up on plane.

thats cause you never adjusted the zinc above the prop.

Just got finished replacing my helm and cable. Wasn't too bad at all. I was a little worried about unbolting/moving the motor but that went just fine. My buddy has a boom (crane) truck for his outdoor advertising business so we used that instead of an engine hoist. I can't really comment on how it would be w/ no hoist/lift, but just a board under the skeg. I would say if you're going to do that you would want to have three people present.
Thanks to all for the great advice, now I just have to wait for the wind to calm down some and it will be back to grouper slaying for the ole v20.

:thre:

Sorry MJ we were up against the clock (wives) to get the install done. Didn't really want to fool around with a camera when my hands were covered in grease either.
Basically I did an exact replacement of what I had before. Uflex ROTECH system. It ended up costing $135 shipped from boatstoreusa.com. It came w/ a new steering wheel as well, but I chose to use my old wheel.
I am planning on adding a grease buddy nut to it soon, maybe I'll get some pics of that.

starting mine in a couple of hours, at least it's good weather to work on boats & not good enough to go out in them:) see ya at the ramp.

pull on the steering wheel and tap the center with a hammer as you pull on it , its a 2 man job, it will come off