Is anyone else mad?
 

Correct me if I'm wrong cause I am not the brightest guy.

A bunch of rich guys decide to start loaning money to people who cant pay it back, (making a bunch of money off of the upfront fees) the rich guys, knowing the people cant pay back the money, sell the loans to others defrauding them into thinking that the loans will be paid back, making MORE money. Then these guys sell it again and again, kinda like a hand grenade, don't be holding it when time is up.

People stop paying cause they cant and the government says, "don't worry rich guys, here's $700 Billion (which they have to borrow cause we dont have it), we will buy all the loans that people cant pay back.

WTF!!!!!!!!!:fight:

And I don't see anyone from any party sticking up for US!

I'm with you. Middle class getting stuck paying for the bailout once again.

I understand it's a balanceing act and all, but either we hit a down slump now or later. I personally would rather get it over with and get beyond it and let things work there way out. We have let our government grow into an entity that is too full of itself, we need to bring it back down to what it should be again and let the economy correct itself.

i am with you Randle....and I also agree with you Ferm, lets get this down time done and move on

this all comes down to the push from the liberals who forced fannie and freddie to make crap azz loans to those who couldnt afford them in order to push a socialist campaign tool to get more votes. how do we know this, they gave tons upon tons of money to the democrats via campaign contributions. ok, now that they fan and fred made these crap loans they need to create real estate backed bonds to sell so they can again have money to lend out. this brings us to our next leg that was broken. fan and freddie created these mortgage backed loans including interest only loans, arms, and other exotics, well when moody's, standard and poors, and the other bond rating agencies saw these mort backed bonds they said, "mortgage backed bonds, they get an auto AAA rating" when infact they were mostly junk bonds. they those who invested in these bonds thought they were investment grade now do not get didly squat from them. they fail safe rating system failed.

to explain lehman bros., bear sterns, and merryl lynch. that comes down to greedy gambling executive officers. they all owned these mortgage bond portfolios, these port. then are seperated into parts starting from AAA bonds all the way to junk bonds. what these E.O.'s did was they sold all the good bonds AAA - Bb and kept the majorit of the junk bonds expecting to gain huge money b/c we all know the riskier the inv. the more return. well guess what. when the loans do not get paid back and all your eggs are in one basket you loose.

to sum it up, GREED, both corporate and political (dems and reps). and its a shame we cant just let them all hang out to dry so they can learn a lesson. if we were to not bail these companies out other companies would buy them out maybe for .25 on the dollars a much better deal that for us tax payers b/c we well buy them out at a much higher rate. i.e 75-80 cents on the dollar.

a while back I read an aritcle that explained the eeconomy has been fueled by dept for the last 30 years. I hear about people rationalizing the cost of operation(payments) rather than the cost of ownership, I see monthly payments advertised rather than how much it actually cost. Kids today don't even understand ownership, its all monthly service.Seems to me everybody has been riding the credit train too long. Don't misunderstand me, I can't afford to buy a house outright, but the one I have is resonable, and affordable, I'd love to have a new car, but I own two dependable 10 year old cars that are gong to be here for a while longer. People ask me whats wrong with the economy, i tell them $50,000 pickups, $90,000 cars, $500,000 homes, and $5000 TVs. No one actually owns those things when they are worth anywhere near what they cost, and you end up paying 4 times what they are worth if you keep them, while depreciation makes them worthless. Who really needs a 5 year payment plan on a freaking TV? We have been living in a dept fueled economy too long, now its time to reap the benifits of it. Thats why I like my V and my McKee, I don't owe anyone a dime on either one

Couldn't agree with you guys more. Spareparts, you hit the fffinng nail right on the head. People don't save up and buy what they can afford and the teenage generation is learning to live this type of lifestyle as well.

My 17 year old step-daughter had a crying fit yesterday because her computer monitor (17" in tube style) was too big for her new (to her) computer desk. She wants a flat panel!

I explained to her that we have two other computers in the house that work well and there is no urgency for me to buy a flat panel. In fact I told her she should save for it from the tips she makes working at Dunkin Donuts. "But what am I suppose to do for spending money, you keep all my paychecks?"

My wife and I do not keep them by the way. We put them in her savings account so she can have some money to put towards college. Just trying to teach her how to save. Not to mention my wife, the catalyst, bought her three new skirts yesterday.

She even asked if I could put the monitor on a credit card and she would make payments.
They don't know how to SAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course mean old step-dad said absolutely not, you have to save it out of your tips. I even sweetened the pot by saying "I will add $1 for every $2 you save".
I will now have to keep you posted on how long this takes.

It is attitudes like this that got us into this mess.

Sorry, guys had to get this off my chest. My old man spoiled me rotten, but he also found a way to teach me the value of a buck! And the value of being able to say "I own that", not the fffing bank.

Okay I am done now.............I think:beer:

That was like therapy only cheaper, thanks guys

Spare, I seem to remember a while back an article about Americans savings habits. We save too little was the gest of the article and we should be saving around 20%. How bout cell phone payments approching a car payment cost. 700 Billion, bend over fellas here it comes!


Here's an article from 1997 that talks about our saving habits.
http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/...ditorial4.html

Americans don't save because the government taxes the interest income as pure income.
By the way I read an article today about a CEO in India was bludgeoned to death
by an angry mob of sacked workers.
That would really be something if it happened here.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4810644.ece

I agree people do not know how to save now days and part of that is because our goverment promises SS & health care when we get older. The only thing me and my wife owe money on right now is our home. Both cars are paid for and we have an account which we put money so when one breaks down or we need to buy another we have the cash on hand. Thats not saying that I might not take out a small loan for a car but it will only be financed for a few years at best with a small payment. I've never owned a new car but could afford one very easy. We purchased a home when the market as going off and we had to look long and hard to find a home I thought we could turn a proffit when the market corrected. We got lucky and found a Dr. (thought he new everything which was good for me) who was selling his home for about 3/4 of its value and after 4 years we have about $100,000 equity in these times. I just see so many people spending way more than we do and they make about 1/2 as much and just wonder how they make ends meet. They have to be living from one paycheck to the next and gof forbid is one looses their job. I could walk from my job today and go about 1 to 2 years without a pay check. it would be tough but we could make it until a new job turned up. Sorry for my rant.

seems like everbody is getting a good rant out of this, made me feel better for a little while. Right now my biggest out of pocket expense is insurance, deductables and copays, our familly is spending more each month in those cost than our house payment. I've seen the bills, and I'm happy that the insurance is covering alot of our medical bills, we got our daughter qualified for disabilty, its picking up what our primary isn't. Just when I thought we might be turning the corner, my wife just got the results back form her biopsy, they came back positive. I raelly don't know just how much more of this crap i'm going to be able to take

Sorry about your news Spare, hope things come around for your wife, she is in my prayers.
The rest of you fellows make good points and there is truth in all of it. But you are also doing what good men do when they discuss tough times, they bring it back on themselves.
We should save more, we should use less credit, all true.
But WE are not the problem.
When you guys get the chance I would like for you to go to Mark Levin . com and pull up a transcript of his radio show this past friday.
He is FIERY type of guy, a conservative, and he tells it like it is. He did a show about what has happened and laid out in detail what is happenening to us and why and it was the most intelligent comprehensive explanation I have heard and explains in detail what we need to do as citizens of this country to fix it for good.
He is very mad at what is being done to the American people and so am I. When you hear
it laid out all at once it will make you mad too.
You will have no doubt about what happened and why.
It SHOULD BE BROADCASTED ON EVERY TV AND RADIO STATION IN THE COUNTRY MORNING NOON AND NIGHT ALL WEEK.

Willy I can't get to Mark Levin.com. I get a artist Mark S levin site. Help me? Billy Mac


Thanks Willy!

http://marklevinshow.com/wp-content/...in09192008.mp3

If you can listen to this and fast forward thru commercials and you will
learn what happend and why

i also think the working joe is gonna get hosed on this bailout deal. I'm very disappointed the both candidates are in favor of it, this tells me wall street greased both sides of the aisle in congress. as far as saving, i think credit cards are the reason the oil company's are getting away with the prices. i'm old enough to remember the early 70's when gas went from .30 to .75. everbody was freaking out & sales dropped way off. now people piss & moan and put it on the credit card and pay $25 dollars a month till they die.

Actually neither candidate is for the bailout (thank God). Hopefully the congress will stall out long enough (thanks to the republicans) so that the wall will fall. Of course the country will go into a recession, but that is the natural swing of things when these greedy wall streeters do these things for so long. You reep what you sow. You can rest assured that if this bailout goes through, the dollar won't be worth a penny. That will continue to drive up the price of oil (again) as we free fall into endless inflation. And just wait, if the bailout is passed, what's gonna happen when that doesn't help anything???? Who's gonna bailout our all knowing government?? China? Saudi Arabia? Dubai? I wonder who we'll have to pay our taxes to in the future????

unless your 401K, IRA, etc. had any type of REIT's, and stock in various other companies that will get the bail out help.

There's plenty of blame on both sides of the aisle...here's where we need to side-step politics and look at what's really wrong here...there's been no accountability (lack of which has been sanctioned by members of BOTH parties)

Some here warn of socialism being brought on Dems...here is a good example of it being sponsored by Reps as well as Dems...either one of them who says "we gotta act right now" needs to go sit down...they are trying to pull a fast one...

Either way, we are about to witness a HUGE shift in favor of the wealthy...once the dust settles here, people w/cash will be able to buy up all kinds of distressed properties...it's a no lose situation for them...and plenty of losses elsewhere...:cen:

I really believe someone should go back and pull up the record...those congressmen(both parties) who voted for deregulation should be sent home...easy...

I second the motion!

Spare, I hope and pray that things will improve for you and your family.

Willy, the website is
http://marklevinshow.com/

I don't hear his show in this area, but I've heard good things about him.

There should be an investigation into the mortgage meltdown, allright, and the target should be CONGRESS. They started the banks down this road, mandating that mortgage requirements be loosened so that ANYONE could get a mortgage, even those with no job. It's called the Community Reinvestment Act, and it was a boondoggle of epic proportions. Then they said to the banks, don't worry about these bad loans, we (via Fannie and Freddie) will buy them from you. Then F & F bundled them up and re-sold them as "mortgage securities," never mind that they were no good. It was Congressional regulation, not de-regulation, that is directly responsible for this. If you hear anyone claiming that de-regulation was the cause, look more closely because it's likely that the claimant is trying to cover his/her own culpability.

mad?
 

Don't let it bother you too much.......there ain't a damn thing you or I can do about it...

I say go fishin and let her ride!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats easy for you to say, you have TWO garages full of toys.

Seriously, I am ready to vote against ALL incumbants.....the new guys may not be any better, but they couldn't be much worse.

(I know its not good or possible to just do a wholesale change of everyone, I'm just spouting)

Toys or no toys you make ur own luck in this world by making sound decisions and working hard to get what you want.

I had many prosperous years under Clinton but I don't give him an ounce of credit for it....

This economy, hell the world economy swings on a fine thread and is subject to unraval at any time......always position yourself accordingly for a soft landing....

Whatever the outcome somebody has a big f----- mess to deal with and I wish them the best of luck!

Got to go and check the fuel level in the toys I hear theres sum kindof cookout coming up?? D

Spare, my best to you and your family....D

Now yer gettin' the idea!!...never vote for the incumbent or the incumbent party...gotta keep 'em rotated!!...:bat:

I second the motion!!

Mac and whoever else needed it I posted the link directly to the show I was talking about on the previous page.
Also you are right on the money, this has nothing to do at all with deregulation, that is the suspects mantra right now along with the phrase we need to help wall street and main street.
You ever watch the shell game? well it is being played out right now in a massive way.

I just got thru listenini' to this...and thanks for sharing...it's a real eye-opener...


Only question I have is why in 31 years hasn't somebody DONE something about it?...he says Bush tried in '03 and cited other attempts, but if this regulation (intervention) has been the looming ogre (31 years is a long time) for all these many years, w/the noted attempts excepted, hasn't somebody stood up to Schumer and Todd and told us what the hell's goin' on here and stopped it?...it's because nobody in the system wants to rock the boat or take a stand...and that applies to both sides of the aisle...I watched Schumer the other day, blow over DeMint in a TV interview...unfortunately, DeMint looked like a deer in the headlights...the real problem is, he didn't find another way to get his message out and we haven't heard anymore from him...I liked what he said, but sometimes these guys have gotta draw a line in the sand and stand on it...

Mark Levin makes some OK points sometimes, but I can't stand listening to him because he just treats his callers like dirt.

he has low tolerance for idiots sporting a party line or a talking point type of call, he would rather people think for themselves. Not how I would handle it and maybe not you either. But the simple fact of the matter he will not back off when he sees his country being led down a path of misery and against the very principles it was founded on.
If you listen to him you will find as I have that a lot of the talking heads on both sides of the aisles are getting opinion and perspective from him and bloviating about it the next day.
I also like him because he is a walking encyclopedia of the history of our country, the history of the good points and bad of both parties and he will hammer republicans when they screw up and lie or decieve as fast as he will a democrat.
Yes he is a conservative, so am I. Yes his voice is irratating at times, he is the first one to ridicule himself about it. Yes he has low tolerance for fools.
But he holds all in washington feet to the fire when they try and getaway with their crap and he will always give you the straight skinny on what is really going on and very few of the politicians will go on his show because if you think the "no spin zone" is on Oreilly you will be astounded when he gets one on his show, he is polite but when one of them spouts BS he jumps right on them and puts the facts right in their faces. I have heard several go into full blown stutter fits when they try to slip something by him. He has is Doctorate in constitutional law and is an Attorney, for you guys who do not know him. He was staff fopr Reagan, and second in command at the attorney generals office after that. He also has a doctorate in U.S History I believe. Very smart man.

I agree with you Willy that he is incredibly smart, and he really knows what he is talking about. I sure would not want to get in a debate with him. He would chew my head off!

And Ozzie I agree with you 110%, and if you listen to the whole show so does Dr. Levin.
We have had politicians including McCain take a stand against what has been happening, the social engineering and interference with the free market.
They have been villified in the press and made out to be against poor americans getting into home ownership. against the advancement of poor people especially black people every time they tried.
In the end they did not have the power to change it and nobody listened when they did.
I am not giving excuses for anyone, our leaders let us down and set us up for this.
But now they want to give away money we don't even have, and increase the regulation and social engineering and are using this crisis to do it.
The facgt of the matter is we don't have to give anything away and if they do it the way the conservative congressmen are trying to force them to do it we may end up a couple of years down the road with a windfall return on our investment. Dems in the house don't want that, interferes with how they already have it spent in their minds. Their great socialist agenda of free everything for everybody. Do you believe that last month Shumer was on the tv talking about how he and Franks wanted to reduce the rules put in place for the Sorbane Oxley Act, which went into place for controlling accounting practices after the last home mortgage debacle. At the same interview he threw the republicans, including Bush and McCain under the bus for fighting him and Dodd from expanding the push to force banks to give more low interest loans out to the poor americans who want to live the dream.
Yes last month, unfu@@ingbelievable, I saw the show, Can't stand those men. Tony Soprano said it right, when he told the FBI guy that the politicians were the same as him, just they have the army backing them up.