You’ve read the FACTS about Pelosi on this and know the truth.
Honest approach - continue to uncover Trumps direct involvement is the Capitol attack and throw him in prison for crimes against our nation

I’ve watched “investigations” in search of a predetermined result, not the truth and facts. This can happen when, like now, the “investigation” is controlled by a group with all of the power and no ethics. This is too good for the dishonest left to pass up, but it is just that, similar to the blatantly dishonest “investigation” of the “Russian collusion”. It is an abuse of process and an abuse of power.

Let’s just sensor all speech that doesn’t agree with the foolish, mindless “beliefs” (if they can even be called that) and policies of the left. Flag and cancel posts by a doctor who actually developed the vaccine foundation in use in connection with COVID because he was questioning “official policy” pronouncements. Let’s swallow he left’s view that the American public is too stupid to actually process conflicting views - ones that conflict with far left orthodoxy.

This exchange is a good example of why I said earlier that this is a waste of time. A discussion could have been interesting. Incessant repeating of a canned line of really ridiculous conspiracy theories in response to attempts at discussion isn’t.

The HONEST approach is to look into all of the facts in a NON-PARTIZAN way, which has been clearly demonstrated will NEVER happen with a Democrat majority in Congress and, even worse, a democrat president. I’m more hopeful if the majority changes in the mid-term.

The spin nonsense supporting the lying cheating con man traitor trump here is the ACTUAL waste of time

There’s no ”spin”. There are people who don’t agree with you.

Most of your conclusions are based on the lying, cheating, con”persons”, traitorous, despicable sources, whose conspiracy nonsense you continue to swallow, even after they have been proven to be purposely and maliciously dishonest. In addition to that, you seem unable even of separating what is obviously opinion from those already proven liars, who are shills for the far left from real news, which you seldom get from them.

That’s spin and it’s why this non-discussion is a waste of everyone’s time. It was worth a try, but not worth anywhere near as much effort as has gone into it.

Speaking of reliable sources...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKmqEsPW...jpg&name=small


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKmr5TzW...jpg&name=small

FACTS Scook …..which i follow vs your “ what if’s”.
Our nation runs on facts….our democracy based on laws and facts, not empty conspiracy theories .

Trump - claimed to be the “law and order President who said:
1. Police shouldn’t be so careful putting criminals into their police cars - they’re criminals throw them in the cars !
2. Talked of all his opposition that should be criminally investigated .

Well…..the same applies to the traitor trump who:
1. Did nothing for hours while people begged him to speak up and stop the attack on our Capitol.
2. Now he says the violent criminals that beat our police , smashed into our Capitol, made terroristic threats to kill our VP , and stop the peaceful transfer of power are “ being treated unfairly and he’d consider pardoning”……

Trumps a hypocrite !!! But worse than that a traitor and may just turn our nation into a dictatorship if he wins again. It would become the trump way only , and he’d use our country as his own private toy while giving speeches to keep you stary eyed supporters fooled

I don’t recall posting any “what if’s”. Your Facts come from sources PROVEN to be liars - they may occasionally report facts, but for the most part report lies or orthodox far left opinion as facts.

I’m certainly not a starry eyed follower of anyone. You are unable or unwilling to see any nuance or discuss anything related to Trump beyond your empty conspiracy theory. That’s unfortunate because the left and right can actually learn things from one another. Not a lot to be learned from the FAR left currently, beyond how to lie and support really foolish, destructive narrative and policy - I live with that in my nearby city of Portland.

Your second sentence is correct - we need to run on FACTS, actual honest facts, not the nonsense and political hackery that you embrace.

You have established that this is a waste of time. We can enjoy agreeing on the beauty of nature and boat stuff - I’m done with this.

Very sneaky reply Scook ……this is NOT a waste of time as this is a continuing discussion of the FACTS associated with Donald Trumps actions , inactions , and the words he speaks - the message he delivers.

Furthermore, given that I’ve written at least a dozen threads about the lying cheating con traitor trump it’s OBVIOUSLY not a waste of time to me !!

1. news sources - you now discount ALL news sources that do not blatantly support Trump:
CNN, NYTimes, Washington POST, NPR, ABC. NBC and more …..EVEN WHEN THEY PRINT TRUMPS OWN WORDS and video of him speaking !!!!!

2. Nuances - correct - im not interested in the “nuances” just the historical FACTS, EVIDENCE, and PROOF.

So continue to reply - or not but you can’t whitewash away the facts and the truth…..not with sneaky comments, not with spinning my comments, not with any tricks .

Gee, why don't people trust CNN?

https://twitter.com/i/status/1489580871405424642

Whoopsie! Biden lies . . . again. About the same thing. That even the WaPo gave 3 Pinocchios.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1489308928047521810

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...non-ownership/

I see that while I've been away nothing has really changed. :head: Mr. Greene continues to spout his wild a$$ BS claims about President Trump and ignores anything that other people say, even when they prove him wrong over and over.

I got to thinking while I was taking a rest from all his Trump BS about something he (Greene) said. He said my car was an old clunker or something like that. Never mind that there were no dents on it, never mind that mechanically it was perfect. Never mind the pristine interior with the full power heated leather seats, or the GPS, or the 6 disk cd player, or the top of the line sound system, or the built in DVD player in the headliner for the kids to watch, or the 3 rows of seating, or the sunroof, or all the other amenities that it came with. All he saw was the rusted out fender panels caused by the salt used to melt ice and snow every year on our roads. And so, in his myopic world, he thought that entitled him to pass judgement, as though somehow it was his right and privilege, to make a disparaging remark about my car and by association about me. That got me thinking about almost all his posts, but especially the ones in this section. I've finally realized what he truly is.

He's an Elitist Snob. We all know him. He's the guy with his nose in the air. He's the type of person that believes he's always right and that he knows what's best for everyone. He thinks that what other people think or say is irrelevant. After all, he knows better. You can find these people everywhere. Running "news" networks spewing lie after lie, or sitting in their multi-million dollar mansions in Hollywood lecturing us mere mortals, or "teaching" (indoctrinating) our children with their neo-Marxist, socialist lies in our schools and universities. Always with the certainty that they are correct, that they know better, and what other people say or think is irrelevant. Because, after all, they really do know better and it's for our own good.. They think they know what's good for us and so what the general public want's or thinks doesn't really matter.

So lets hear it for Mr. B. Greene... WellcraftV20.com's very own elitist snob.

.

Hahahaaha your cars a clunker ?
I generally like old clunkers that have a certain character to them
My tow vehicles about 18 years old but runs ok.

Must be your lack of character that rubbed off on your car
Hahahahahah

Hey, YOU are the one that called my car a clunker, not me. Are you that addled in what's left of your brain that you forgot? It's right in these forums pal.

In your "Jan 6, 2021" post you wrote: Like I said... you're an Elitist Snob that thinks he knows better than everyone else. Oh, and news flash. My tow vehicle is newer and better than than your tow vehicle. :you:

.

Of course you need to try and “ label me “ so as to make EXCUSES for not dealing with reality.
Just like the lying cheating con traitor trump.

I think I’m pretty thoroughly done attempting to have a political discussion with you bgreene. It is a waste of my time when your responses are just about entirely non responsive and insulting. Suggesting that my post (and those of others) are “sneaky” is insulting and dishonest - there has never been anything even remotely sneaky about anything I have ever posted.

You continue to cite sources proven to be abject liars and with extreme bias. You then amplify that “information” with your own extreme, irrational bias.

You are definitely wasting your time - your shrill, for the most part entirely baseless (only your extreme conspiracy based opinions) are not convincing anyone of anything, beyond the fact that reading your posts is a complete waste of time. It’s your time to waste, but I’m done with it.

Done again scook ? What’s this …..the third time ?

When Americans stop accepting all the news that presents FACTS and even actual video footage - trumps on his way towards dictatorship . You and destroyer are already doing that .

I'm honored that you include me with Scook. He has a way with words that I can only hope to obtain. What a shame that you cannot see what he's actually saying instead of instantly going on the offensive and attacking him, or anyone that disagrees with you. You might actually be able to learn something. Instead you just peddle your same old tired lies. Your Trump mantras that Trump's this or that.... blah, blah, blah.... I actually would feel sorry for you except that I know there are idiots out there that will actually believe the garbage that you vomit from your mouth.

And that means that I and others are duty bound to correct you every chance we get. For too long Republicans and Independents and even centrist Democrats stayed quiet and didn't say anything while the neo-Marxist liberal democrat teachers and professors brainwashed and poisoned the minds of a whole generation of our children. But no more. We're on to you now and never again will you be allowed to spew your twisted ideas without meeting resistance.


.

Wow, thanks for the complements Destroyer. I’ve read and gotten a lot of good FACTS and TRUTH from many of your thorough well sourced posts.

Maybe I shouldn’t be thanking you for making me consider whether I should stay, at least a bit, engaged in this stuff. You nailed it about his trashing people, who no matter how accurately and thoughtfully, e.g. Destroyer and others, disagree with him and the proven dishonest, wildly biased sources he cites.

You’re right that there needs to be pushback against the far left, very destructive narrative that’s spewing from the activist anarchists, the grievance industry and the power mad democrat party.

I’m having a local opportunity to work for re-election of our Washington County DA, who is a fair minded guy who actually prosecutes crimes (while fully sensitive to the rights of EVERYONE involved). Outside money is supporting a candidate who wants to “do away with law and order” (his words” and substitute his progressive agenda. All this while crime is spilling out of Portland, where the Multnomah County DA operated a revolving door for the domestic terrorists who attacked the police, public and private buildings, pulled down statues (even one of an Elk, figure that open out), but went after our police officers for doing their job.

President Trump had to send federal cops to protect the federal court house because the mayor and city council wouldn’t ALLOW the local cops to do it. The feds deputized the locals and after a huge exodus from the Portland Police Bureau, in a panic over the leap in crime, the mayor and chief sent out a “retire/rehire” letter, inviting officers to come back, but among those not eligible for rehire are those officers who “helped the feds attack out citizens”. You can’t make this stuff up.

Anyway - a long-winded agreement that rational, honest people need to push back against the blatant lies and distortions of the far & foolish left.

“ duty bound claims destroyer “ yes you’re duty bound to reject the lying cheating con man traitor Donald trump .

Trump lost the election ….FACT
Mike Pence just announced Trump was WRONG …..FACT
Trumps kids pleaded to get Trump to speak up against the Capitol attack ….FACT
Trump recently talked about considering pardons for the violent insurrectionists …FACT
You referred to those that injured about 140 police as just the few that got “ rowdy “FACT
You reject all news that doesn’t favor trump FACT
You have a history of posting vulgar comments FACT

Yay, Resident Biden! Crack pipes for equity! :clap:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLE_lO7X...jpg&name=small

What a guy!

You're exactly right. But when faced with a well thought out, coherent argument he isn't going to give one in return. I've learned to live with it and laugh about it.

New hot take:

Crack pipes are infrastructure.

Pipe - seeing as you trust empty conspiracy theories over the FACTS I suggest you stick with what you bring to the discussion…..articles from “ The National Inquirer”

You say trump won the election and it was stolen.
Based on ? The Pillow Man who made a big fuss and had nothing ?
Based on nonsensical theories ?

Joe Biden won by a wide margin.
Trumps own auditors confirmed the same results .
Our Supreme Court with appointees from Trump refused to even mess with the nonsense.

But you’ve got conspiracy theories which you’ll follow over the FACTS and the TRUTH.

Thanks, you’re right Pipe. Though I doubt anyone on here, who isn’t already EXTREMELY biased to the left and virulently anti Trump, is swallowing any of his wild, preposterous conspiracy theories. However, Destroyer’s point that there needs to be push back against far left lunacy is a good one. I’m not sure on this site, it’s worth a great deal of time, but the nonsense shouldn’t be ignored either - there are a lot of people swallowing it and government and corporate executives and managers who are afraid to oppose it.

There’s no hope of honest discussion with bgreene, but occasionally correcting his false claims and ludicrous conspiracy theories may not be a complete waste of time.

1) I don’t know that the election was stollen and he certainly doesn’t know that it wasn’t. Trumps auditors verified the counting of ballots in one state, but not how many were fraudulent - they suspected there were a large number. Claiming that his auditors say the election was fair and honest is a lie.
2) Most of the court challenges were NOT thrown out for lack of evidence - that’s a lie. They were dismissed on procedural grounds, as Destroyer has pointed out, probably more than once. That FACT and TRUTH doesn’t crease bgreene’s consciousness.
3) Stating that if Trump is elected again, we will no longer follow the constitution and will be headed to a facsimile of Nazi Germany is too stupid to imagine. After the FBI lied and harassed him throughout his presidency and recently the Supreme Court with a bunch of his appointees voted almost unanimously against his executive privilege claim, it’s beyond idiocy to think he could get away with taking over the country if he wanted to. The censorship, which is a major tool of the left, would certainly have been used when he was in office if he was inclined and able to use it - there were plenty of lies and loads of misinformation that was worthy of censorship. But my favorite is the compulsory flying of Trump flags - good grief.

Well, that’s a few things corrected.

“ ludicrous conspiracy theories and a liar” writes Scook in reference to me ….hahahah

The proven FACTS …the Certified RESULTS …the audited FINDINGS all confirm our Presidential election was FAIR and ACCURATE.

“ blissfully ignorant” or willing to turn your back on our Constitution….that’s EXACTLY how Trump wants you to be.

I know you really don’t believe the nonsense and you know trumps a lying cheating con man traitor but go on……hold your breathe, stamp your feet and undermine our democracy .
You may get your wish.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...ion-was-secure

Each of my statements is factual, and as usual, the response is non-responsive. It is a baseless personal attack. Hold my breath, stamp my feet - that’s the kind of disingenuous drivel this individual posts.

An honest reading of my post shows that I pointed out our Supreme Court is very much able and committed to following the constitution, and as such more than capable of ruling against a future president aspiring to dictatorship. They’ve even ruled against the present one who has repeatedly ignored the constitution and tried to ignore the Supreme Court.

The link provided is, as usual, to an organization generally considered to be liberal and progressive and by their own words one which views the constitution as something to be interpreted in the context of their own opinions about the state of our society.

Willful ignorance, yes, but not on my part.

Well stated, sir.

Indeed.

Now let's get back to the subject that bgreene originally brought up:

What's pResident Biden been doing?

Raising Americans' energy bills, that's what.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...dded-1000-ame/

Way to go, Joe!

Exactly - I just filled up my 2000 Toyota Tundra pickup - it cost a wee bit less than $100. If that's not abuse of the poor that the left claims to be concerned about, nothing is.

Hahahaa blame Biden for gas prices …..and I bet for the global inflation too !!!
FYI ….Ford is re tooling to go ALL ELECTRIC powered vehicles .
Better sell that gas guzzler while there’s still a market for them ……

What else has pResident Biden been doing?

Giving illegal immigrants free tickets to ride buses taking them deep into the U.S. interior. Illegal aliens in Brownsville, Texas, score free cab rides to the airport, whereupon they jet off to Atlanta, Houston, and other cities. Still other illegal aliens—including single adult males—board clandestine night flights that land after closing time in New York’s Westchester Airport and other airfields. Illegal aliens without papers may use their arrest warrants as IDs to board aircraft. These are just the illegal immigrants that Customs and Border Protection intercepted. Biden let an estimated 500,000 “got-aways” get away. Where are they? Who knows? Clearly Biden (and his immigration "czar," VP Harris) don't know and don't care.

Surges of low-level workers always depress wages for legal employees as more workers compete for fewer jobs. Remember how the Democrat party used to be the "party of the working class?" Clearly that's no longer the case.

Actually, if you check the FACTS, Bidens deportation processes nearly the same as Trump - except for splitting up families, ripping little kids out of their moms arms etc

Except for the VASTLY increased numbers of illegals, leaving a huge number to "get away". And once again, you completely duck Pipe's honest, legitimate, very concerning points (important to those who actually care about our country). You claim to be concerned, but there's not much evidence of it.

“ not much evidence of concern” claims scook another know it all wanna be judge .

HUGE concern for the loss of our democracy associated with the lying cheating con traitor Trump expressed over many threads and posts ,

Hmmm..... "Loss of our Democracy"? You mean like the mandates that mostly red states have/had where people that don't/didn't get vaxed or wear masks lose their jobs? You mean the Biden mandates that the SCOTUS ruled were illegal? That loss of Democracy? Or were you talking about the far left controlled media platforms that are deliberately censoring people whose opinions they don't want other people to hear?


.

No destroyer - that’s your opinion and not related to this topic in any way

Huge concern, but not about any of the huge number of things that are actually threatening our democracy, e.g. a few of which Destroyer just pointed out.

You can tell how bad it's going for Biden by how desperately the media (bgeene's media) continues to go after Trump. In spite of their efforts Biden's support continues to drop.

Also witness how in desperation even blue states are ending mask rules. Just weeks after Democrats condemned Virginia's newly elected Republican Governor Glenn Youngkin as a "mass murderer" for ending his state's mask rules, the Democrats in the Virginia senate have voted to . . . get this . . . end the state's mask rules.

Did "the science" change that quickly? No, the politics have changed, and Democrats are panicking. pResident Biden hasn't caught up yet, but he will as soon as his handlers get around to telling him.