[QUOTE=bgreene;245670]Again with the personal insults.

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[QUOTE=Destroyer;245724]Siege on our Capitol - attempt to stop certification of the next duly elected President of our United States of America . Encouraged by the former President and his lawyer .

A historic event in our history that may lead to the undoing of our great democracy .
Like the fall of the Senate on the Roman Empire - when a single Pharaoh took over.
A democracy is fragile and must be upheld or it falls to tyranny.

Donald Trump wants to rule our nation - to run it as part of his own business kingdom.
To slowly eliminate non supporting entities - in our government , our businesses, our media and our people. Only those of strongest character can face this truth, speak up, and vote against it .

[QUOTE=bgreene;245748]A historic event? Hardly. There have been many many demonstrations at our Nation's Capital. But I will agree this was one of the more newsworthy.

The Egyptians had Pharaohs. The Romans had Consuls

I totally agree with you that a Democracy is a fragile thing and must be upheld. That's why people are so much against the Democrats right now, because they see what is happening to their freedoms.

I agree that Mr. Trump wants to rule our nation, as president. We disagree as to if he wants to run it as part of his business empire. He is constrained by the Constitution on what he can and cannot do.

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[QUOTE=Destroyer;245766]Hah constraints on what he can do . Spin destroyer ! Spin !

[QUOTE=bgreene;245778]You disagree that the Constitution places constraints on presidents? :head: Interesting

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[QUOTE=Destroyer;245795]Trump doesn’t care about constitutional constraints

Neither does Biden, e.g. admitting that the Supreme Court had ruled on eviction mandates, but attempting to ignore it. The constraints still applied, as they did often with Trump. His executive orders were often successfully challenged or at least delayed & modified in court.

Regarding controlling the media, Trump was the subject of constant, incessant and often flagrantly dishonest attacks from the majority of the media and couldn’t/didn’t silence them.

The constitution is very much at work constraining presidents and if, as you suggest, Trump wants to become a dictator, there is zero chance of his being able to make it happen.

The statist nature of European governments, including disarming of their populations and lack of constitutions that declare individual rights, rather than privileges granted by the governments, made Hitler’s takeover possible.

Where Trump was at all similar to Hitler was in stirring national pride in our exceptional (while not without its problems) country and showing respect for those of us who actually work and produce goods and services. He never vilified any ethnic group or tried to shut them out of our prosperity - exactly the opposite.

Based on all trumps comments and behaviors I very much disagree - he lost the election by large margin then tried to stop our democratic transfer of power.
The LACK of credible evidence otherwise proves this out.

I know we don’t agree on the likelihood of significant voting irregularities, but an important point is that he was not successful in getting the voting integrity thoroughly examined and wasn’t able to get the outcome changed. I’m not convinced of the fairness of the process (potential fraudulent ballots, not necessarily fraudulent counting), but the system prevented any attempt to change the result.

My concern with your narrative is that I think you have too little faith in how the founding fathers set up the system - congress and the courts frustrated Trump’s attempts to do some things and have done the same with some of Biden’s. I just don’t think there’s a viable path to dictatorship in the US.

That said, I’m very concerned about the far reaching and long lasting effects of the radical left’s permissiveness, allowing rampant crime to spread. I think it could lead to some very serious conflict with some very bad consequences.

FACT - trump lost the election
FACT - his audits re confirmed he LOST

I don’t think that’s what we were talking about.

Your proposition that Trump would destroy our democratic structure seems to me to be an extremely unrealistic one with absolutely zero probability of success. This was clearly demonstrated while he was in office by the constant opposition and many successful court and congressional blocking of parts of his agenda.

It’s clear that you can’t stand the man on a personal level and you have plenty of reason for that. He has an ego the size of Texas, Montana and Alaska and can be obnoxious in his personal attacks. To be fair, you should probably give a little more weight to the obnoxiousness of the dishonest, personal attacks that were constantly leveled at him by the president and political opponents.

That’s got more holes in it than Swiss cheese !
1. Trump has long been the KING of insulting others
2. The Republican Party is working - right now - to make fair elections UNFAIR and the outcomes CONTROLLED by their own appointment officials.
3. I don’t hate trump ……although I don’t like him personally . What I hate is he’s a lying cheating con man traitor to our nation.

What you refer to us “ unlikely to happen “ analogous to German ***s who thought things wouldn’t get worse in their country, until it was too late and they couldn’t get out.

Those who fail to follow the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it .

Do you have a link regarding Republicans working to make elections unfair? Everything I’ve seen looks like they just want voter ID, adequate to reasonably assure that only citizens are voting. I’m open to new information.

This will get you started

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/28/97087...-werent-broken

So unfair means limiting early voting to 17 days before and limiting mail in voting? And having an ID to vote? How is that unfair? How are they going to control the outcome if the votes are counted legally?

Oteps - no that’s not bad - what is bad was in the attachment I thoughtfully provided

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/28/97087...-werent-broken

Hmmm.... I'm with Osteps on this one. He said To which you said Well, I read word for word the link you thoughtfully provided, and while it's slant and spin was decidedly anti-Republican, still, it did make a number of salient points. All of which Osteps covered in his comment. So I'll repeat his comment ... "So unfair means limiting early voting to 17 days before and limiting mail in voting? And having an ID to vote? How is that unfair? How are they going to control the outcome if the votes are counted legally"?

I'll ask the same question. How is that unfair? How are the Republicans going to control the outcome of the election if the votes are counted legally?

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The records produced by Meadows leave "no doubt" that the White House knew about the violent riot that was taking place at the Capitol as the chaos unfolded.

Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., read out a series of panicked messages that pro-Trump Fox News hosts, congressional lawmakers and even the president's own children had sent Meadows during the riot.

"Mark, the president needs to tell people in the Capitol to go home. This is hurting all of us. He is destroying his legacy," Cheney said, quoting a text from Fox host Laura Ingraham.

Meanwhile - the so called law and order trump was enjoying the attack on our Capitol

What?

That’s right - it’s all coming out now - while Trump watched the violent Insurrection attempt on his TV.

Mark Meadows - now in contempt of court

Fox News BEGGED the White House for Trump to tell the rioters to stop !
But trump remained silent for over 1-1/2 hours

The TRUTH matters to America

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/14/media...ces/index.html

What? Was for not answering the questions that were asked twice.

The TRUTH now coming as HARD EVIDENCE in the form of TEXTS from trumps son, many others and even Fox News begging Trump to tell the rioters to stop. Trump refused - for 1-/12 hours as he watched it on tv

Proof that trumps a lying cheating con man traitor to our nation.
Absolutely PROOF

I'm not going to even attempt to refute CNN. They have a history of twisting facts and making things up. I'm simply going to wait until things play out in the orchestrated witch hunt.

You’re a FACT denier - other news report this same data - as the actual texts are being released . As these facts are releases you’ll just call it fake to avoid the truth

Trump - now proven the lying cheating con man traitor

Well, I don’t deny facts that are credibly reported, but I continue to be skeptical of sources I’ve confirmed as having demonstrated their dishonesty and CNN is among those.

Good that you DONT DENY the facts now being reported on many news sites - proving trumps the self serving lying cheating con man traitor

I think that, as usual, you misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't deny that Fox or Don Jr. made text messages. I don't even doubt that the reporting of them is accurate. I just doubt that they have the significance that you are attributing to them. In fact, I think that Liz may have cut the legs out from under the "investigation" by releasing them. So, as I have already said, I'll wait and see how the witch hunt plays out before making any definitive comment.

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You do that destroyer - refer to trumps now very clear support of the violent attack on our Capitol as a witch hunt.

The TRUTH is now being revealed as even Fox News reporters tried to get Trump to tell the rioters to stop . Of course those same people later try to whit wash this historic insurrection attempt as a non issue .

Lying cheating con man traitor trump exposed !!!!
You play your games - this is crystal clear

Perhaps crystal clear to you, but that's only your opinion. Not facts.

The real fact is that some people thought that the demonstration was getting out of hand and that those same people texted Meadows and asked him to talk to the truthful, honest, straight talking, American patriot, President Trump, and have him say something, which, of course, he did.

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“ some people thought the demonstration was getting out of hand “ says destroyer .
“ some people “

The entire WORLD that was able to see it viewed the VIOLENT trump supporting mob attempting insurrection while hunting down our government officials while making terroristic threats to hang out Vice President.

Trump meanwhile refused to make a statement instead watching it on TV for at least 1-1/2 hours while it went on.

His own son couldn’t even get him to do the right thing.

Destroyer - you fit right in with trump and Fox News .
Disinformation , slander , spinning the facts to false narrative .

Disinformation , slander , spinning the facts to false narrative ... Yep that description fits you to a "t". Glad you posted it. Copy and paste saved me the trouble of typing it. Thanks.

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This is all you have left now - the nonsense .

It’s all over the news now - the TRUTH about Trump, his own sons plea and Fox News lies .
The truth, the facts that reconfirm - to Donald it’s all about himself first and above all else .
Donald Trump - malignant narcissistic personality disorder, and a lying cheating con man traitor to America .

Don’t hate me for it - it is what it is. If you can’t face this truth it’s your problem not mine .

The truth is that a number of people texted and asked Meadows to talk to the President and have him say something about the demonstration, which he did. That's ALL, the whole sum of the "truth" you keep talking about. It proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was no collusion. So what the heck are you even talking about?

And I don't hate you for your posts. It does sadden me however to see just how deeply you and half the Country have been deceived by the Marxist, Socialist Democrats that have corrupted the once good Democrat party.

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“ to say something about the demonstration which he did you write “.
You’re always trying to minimize the truth of this event . Just like Fox News now

Reality - it was a VIOLENT domestic terrorist attack attempt to stop the transfer of power from trump to Biden by a mob that smashed their way past police into our Capitol hunting for our officials with intent to hang our Vice President .

And despite DESPERATE PLEAS from his son, Fox News and others Trump did NOT say anything for at least 1-1/2 hours while it raged on.

This is the truth

I don't dispute the text message part of your post. That's a matter of public record, thanks Liz Cheney.

However, it was not a "domestic terrorist attack". Not by a long shot. That's a pretty far stretch, even for you.

Was it violent? yes, I'd think I'd agree that parts of it, by a small number of people, was violent. The most violent part was, of course, when that Capital Police thug shot an unarmed woman and murdered her. That was pretty violent. The rest of it, the pushing and shoving, the breaking of some furniture and some doors was pretty tame, especially when you compare it to all the riots of the summer before, where stores were looted, buildings burned and several people were killed. Why is it that you completely ignore that? :head:

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Our FBI Director labeled the violent attack on our Capitol as “ DOMESTIC TERRORISM.”
Oh yes he did and here’s the link you pretend otherwise.

Punching holes in your BS is easy destroyer - because the FACTS and the TRUTH are pure, honest, and real.

I don’t have to compare the violent insurrection attack on our Capitol to urban violence .
The violent attack on our Capitol, on our peaceful transfer of power , on our democratic process was a specific and unique event in the history of our nation.


https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...-capitol-siege

Oh, is this the same FBI Director that called those parents that objected to the school board "domestic terrorists" or is this a different FBI Director? Rofl... And you're quoting the LATimes as factual and unbiased? You really are desperate aren't you? You know what? YOU are a Domestic Terrorist. There, I just labeled you as one.

See? That's how a dangerously silly stupid post goes. People like you label people or events you don't like as something evil, like calling them "domestic terrorists" and you gloss over real domestic terrorism as nothing but "Urban violence". You play word games because there are really stupid people that will believe you and your fake BS, and then you try to cloak yourself in some make believe false mantle of "truth" and facts" when you know that almost everything you say is pure horse manure.

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Hahahah hah destroyer calls me a “ domestic terrorist” and of course discredits our Director of FBI.
But of course you’re WRONG AGAIN - here’s the definition of domestic terrorist - which the Insurrectionist were:
Terrorism - FBI
Domestic terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences

Exactly what these people were that attacked our Capitol and FBI Director 100 % correct .

In fairness, that definition exactly fits the rioting left wing mobs for more than a year and continuing today. The result of permissioning this kind of lawlessness is the spreading of lawlessness, e.g. kids now think it’s OK to organize threats against schools on TikTok. This largely inconsequence lawlessness is a very serious threat to our democracy and very destructive to the way of life our magnificent country has achieved.

You can hold whatever opinion you have as to the severity of the capitol violence and Trump’s character, but I think not vigorously engaging this very serious, virulent threat is a huge mistake. I think anyone not working hard to vote out the far left, incompetent and flagrantly dishonest office holders who are perpetuating this foolishness is way far off a reasonable path - ignoring a huge body of facts and truth that is before us every day.