Wellcraft V20 Community - A post from another site

Destroyer,
I gave that link to ALEC to show what is going on.They have an "official" site also.the truth is that there were so many anti public unions bills that were introduced by these newly elected governors which were basically identical, that there was little doubt that there was a connection.After some digging it was found that they were a part of the ALEC agenda.
Now,agree with their plans or not it makes no difference but,there's little doubt where these bills came from.
Reducing spending is fine but,where is the reduction where it comes to the high salaries and bonuses of some of these company high ups? we witnessed some of their concerns after the bailouts when they continued with business as usuall with those bonuses.To work fairly,there has to be give and take from everyone not just the people working for a living.
Walker gave no freedoms.I can't speak for the workers of Wisconsin but There are no safety forces workers in Ohio where union membership is mandatory.I beleive the same goes for most other public sector workers also.Now,no proof but i would say that the same would be true in Wisconsin.Ohio's version of Walkers bill was SB5 and we heard the very same thing about how it would save jobs and was needed to balance the budget.simply put,it wasn't true.the bill failed soundly,there were no layoffs and the budget was balanced.
I agree that we should never be controlled by a small group but thast just isn't the current case here.No one is holding our state hostage now or have they in the past.Our collective bargaing laws were passed in 1983 and have worked very well for the employers and the workers because it gave BOTH a means to negotiate and agree to terms that in many cases save money.

To be truthful I really hated it when Pelosi made that statement and I certainly do not agree with everything our President has done or said(probably never will w/ ANY President).But,so did alot of the republican,teapartiers and democrats.But,to use that as a means to justify another wrong or say "Much like Nancy Pelosi" makes absolutely no sense at all.Are we keeping score?? I genuinely was embarassed to hear how poorly Senator Jones was prepared to answer questions about SB5.It seemed to have set the tone for the entire pro/anti campaign on the bill.

Let me make a point a little clearer.
Sb5's failing didn't translate into safety forces being given a blank check to buy whatever we want as far as safety equipment goes.As an example,when we need to make a purchase for a piece of equipment there are laws in place that we must abide by to make sure that the best product is specked out for the money that has been alloted,a fair system of bidding is in place,etc..What the concern was that IF SB5 had passed we would have had NO voice at the negotiations table whatsoever for anything from gloves to a new Engine.Take the time and imagine being at the mercy of an elected officials opinion of what their definition of "safe" is when purchasing equipment that is used for the safety of the public AND the firefighters.The stipulations of the bill would have kept collective bargaining in place by name only.the fact was that after any negotiations,the employer would have had the final say in ALL matters.THAT would not have been "bargaining" at all.But,they decided to keep it in place by name in an attempt to fool the voters by saying that it was still in place.

You say "Well, thank God for the Republicans. At least some party is trying to cut the out of control spending" as if only the Democrats have been guilty.
Well,I've witnessed out of control spending that has been done equally by BOTH parties.I have also seen the results of it AND the bad economy.While some of that spending was taking place,We had layoffs which equalled critically un-safe manning.All while some "pet projects" were completed by politicians.
If you don't beleive anything else I tell you,you can beleive that no one hates seeing wasted money more than I do.It's made my job alot more dangerous and much more difficult.Most departments here have also seen the same thing happen.

Here is one of the sources that somewhat explains the truth about pay differences between private and public sector workers.In the case of firefighters though it's pretty difficult to have a comparable in the private sector.Now,if you do not give any credit to the source then I'll be willing to look at any others but,the truth is that the Pro SB5 people did inflate the numbers where public service workers pay was concerned.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/0...e-not-overpaid

Now,I'll say that I am also a middle of the road type where politics are concerned.I know that might not seem that way where this topic is concerned but it is very true.I've voted republican as well as democrat over the years. but I'll say that I am a democrat more so than a Republican when it comes to declaring one party or the other.My personal opinion is that we now have a divided nation with the majority of the people having either ultr right or ultra left views.until that ceases little will get accomplished.
We have witnessed some pretty dirty politics during the entire SB5 ordeal here.I'll be the first to admit that the democrats aren't blameless either.like I said,I didn't agree with Pelosi and personally do not like her at all.But a very telling fact about SB5 was that when the bill was introduced by the governor,pushed through the house and senate,the idea to include the politicians in it was brought up and it was shot down with no talks! At the same time the new budget was introduced there was an addition that would have reduced the senate and house salaries by 5%.it was also shot down with no talk.But,SB5 would have cut all affected employees overall salaries by 12%-15%.Where is the leadership by example that is so badly needed?
LIke I said,you'll find no one that hates wasted money in the public sector more than I do.I just beleive that the blame was wrongly placed and that proposals to fix the problems within the police & fire pension system were sat on instead of being implemented which told me that they were more interested in playing politics than they were fixing a problem.Since then the changes have been made and workers are paying more towards pensions and putting in more years of service among other things.
Now,I'm gonna go back to talking about boats and fishing!
I sure hope that I haven't created any hard feelings with this discussion.