Wellcraft V20 Community - Opinion of the President

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Re: Opinion of Bush

From the NY Times today:

"The personal savings rate of Americans has fallen below zero for the first time since the Great Depression."

Re: Opinion of Bush

Man . . . do I wish it was 1999 again.

Re: Opinion of Bush

It would be the same problem, picking the lesser of two evils. Even so we definetly got the lesser of the two evils, by a good margin. I truly cannot imagine how much worse our plight would have been, I know some can't see that but I know in spite of the defieciencies he has we are very very lucky Mr. Internet is not there.

Re: Opinion of Bush

A few weeks ago, I was fishing by the old mothball fleet (graveyard for decommisioned battleship). Fishing was slow and I started to think about the size of the ships and the work it must have taken just to design and assemble just one ship. Men come up with the most amazing creative contraptions with no other purpose than to kill each other. We utilize so much of our resources building battleships, bombs, tanks, guns, planes, missles, and a million other leathal devices . . . rather that trying to resolve or differences. Asserting dominance over another group of people and forcing them to give up resources and live a certain way does not resolve any of the underlying issues.

The UN was set up for the purpose of maintaining peace and resolving conflict b/w countries after ww2.

I strongly believe Bush should be prosecuted for war crimes . . . especially since the reasons he gave for going into war were bull****. We've killed 30,000+ inocent iraqi civilians for reasons that turned out to be untrue, violated the UN charter, and people are still defending this ****head president.

When the world trade center buildings fell and 2000+ americans died . . . how many people in this country we're touched in someway . . . a friend of a friend, someones uncle, an old classmate, or a close relative. How upset were you? Hell . . . stupid people in this country attacked anyone that looked like an iraqi. That was only 2000 people.

Imagine what it's like in Iraq. 30,000 uncles, mothers, sisters, brothers, relatives are dead b/c of our *** hole president and some greedy oil companies. How do you think they feel about our country? especially being occupied.

Why do we toletate this and defend Bush?

Besides taking away our freedoms, spending all the surplus funds, and taking a big **** on our country . . . why do we still defend him?

Re: Opinion of Bush

Hey Big, Thats an insughtful position. I am sorry for what we have wasted, our resources, our dignity, our ability to lead by positive example. We wasted lives of our children, regardless of nationality. We always will have differences, but we could respect and embrace those differences. This country is a melting pot of differences. We are only 232 years old as a country, we are still evolving as a culture. Many of the people we have a "problem" with have centuries of culture and customs behind them. I just hope Bush isn't our Nero fiddeling while our Rome burns. You run and I'll vote for you.

P.S. Just read it to my wife, she would vote for you also.

Re: Opinion of Bush

Bigshrimpin... very insightful. Johns Hopkins did a comprehensive study last year on the amount of innocent Iraqis killed, since the Rumsfeld's Pentagon does not track it. Their estimate was over 90,000 Iraqis. That's one and a half times the number of US killed in Viet Nam. No wonder why we are so hated all over the world.

Re: Opinion of Bush

BS I agree that it certainly would be a wonderful world if our resources were put to advancing the human condition. In fact along with a few other countries this country has contributed untold billions to advancing that condition all over the world.
But the problem is this world is not like a John Lennon song. It is full of humans of ill intention and evil goals.
Those big ships you are fishing around probably have engines in them that men like my father, a merchant marine engineer installed in them. Those ships were built, those planes were built and those rifles etc. were built to ensure freedoms for us and they have done so very well indeed.
Thank God.
A number has been quoted here of 30,000 dead in Iraq. Because of G.W! That is so preposterous that I will not even comment on it. That is pure political diatribe and quoting info, or for that fact obtaining any info as fact that comes out of a major University is like baseing your opinions on what Pravda reports to its people, in fact they are almost always the same. Interesting!
In one 2 hour long attack on his own people with a toxic nerve gas (WMD) Saddam killed over 70,000 of his own people, intentionally, with purpose.
Mass graves are turned up every day, mass brutal rapes, butchering of children slaughter of unarmed civilians by the hundreds of thousands was the norm while that wonderful world entity the UN stood by and debated and toyed with what to do for over a decade while facilities to build nuclear weapons were pursued and that wonderful group of nations were involved in a world fraud to provide him with weapons and money to further his goals in the name of oil for food programs.
Are we perfect BS no not by a long shot, but to refer to our actions as criminal and world dominating is so far off kilter that I really don't know what to say.
I remember that picture of John Lennon wearing those cute little rectangular glasses he was famous for wearing. Did you ever notice the color of the lenses Rose.
I hope we remain strong, I hope we can make things better in the world but until they elect you King BS and you outlaw evil men we will need all those trappings you and many others find distastefull.
We would also do well to step back from political motives and look at the great things this country has done for the world and how so much better it is than anything else the good Lord has allowed to flourish in the history of this planet . I to dream of a day when I don't have to worry about my sons going off to war, have to sweat a draft and watch their friends die like I had to. But I will not stick my head in the sand and pray the UN will save the day or my butt. And if Jaque Chirac or Chancellor Kohl or Putin or Saddam and the latest Shiek or Mullah has a problem with my attitude that tells me I'm (we) are doing something right.
So next time you leave the left coast and want to have a beer and talk about it let me know, got room in my V20 for everyone.

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Ok I'm done, no more political stuff, going back to boating and fishing. Only things that seem to make sense anymore ;D

Re: Opinion of Bush

Quote:

Originally Posted by willy

In one 2 hour long attack on his own people with a toxic nerve gas (WMD) Saddam killed over 70,000 of his own people, intentionally, with purpose.

Willy, I think these stats are way off. The town was Halabja, which had a population of 70,000. There was an estimated 3200-5000 Iraqi's gassed. Still quite a tragedy but not 70,000 dead.

I am in no way supporting that whacko Saddam, just trying to keep the facts straight.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...02/0828gas.htm

http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html

Re: Opinion of Bush

Oh.............................................BS FOR PRESIDENT!!!

Re: Opinion of Bush

Agreed Saddam a evil bastard . . . but if you're president and going to commit our country to war for years, bomb innocent civilians, and do so going around the UN . . . then fck'n tell someone? don't lie to your own country and commit all your resources and 130,000 soldiers . . . to the capture of one man. Work through the UN!!! That's what it's there for!!

The reason we have 130,000 soldiers there is for OIL. That's it . . If Iraq had WMD then they would have already used them.

30,000 is the number bush quoted. The number are also supported by this database below of dead civilians.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/databas...it3=Enter+Site

Re: Opinion of Bush

There's truth in all the comments here from Ranger, Willy and Bigshrimpin'...that's why it's such a difficult issue to deal with...but one aspect of our involvement that troubles me is the deceit prior to the invasion...no just the WMD line, but think about it...Cheney was in high-level politics since Nixon....then he goes over to CEO of Haliburton, YEARS B4 Iraq is invaded, then majicly pops up as VP!!!...the fix was in long time ago...middle east has been targeted for invasion for years by the big political machinery that we never see and the Bushs and Cheneys are front men for...and we have NO CONTROL over...

Our elected officials are PAWNS doing the bidding of people and corporations with pockets so deep we can't fathom...

Re: Opinion of Bush

I've got a question......Why are our gas prices so high?

Exxon/Mobile had record profits. Last quater of "05 they posted a 10 billion dollar PROFIT!!!

Hmmmm...Oil companies have record profits.....and the rest of us Americans have negative savings since the first time since the Great Depression???

Anyone one want to borrow my calculator to add 2+2???

I have to ask the same qustion as BS. WHY and HOW do people still support Bush? It really does baffle me.

Re: Opinion of Bush

I think it's due to being blinded by party politics...if a Dem is in office, everything he/she does must be right...if a Rep is in office, then everything he/she does must be right...I think it's one of the basic problems we face...

Re: Opinion of Bush

I hope Bush either tries to pass a draft bill or change laws about term limits on presidents. That way, nobody could argue for him any more. Halliburton up 0.06% today, democracy and freedom down.

Fun fact though: saw George Senior in Freeport harbor one time many years ago with a (supposedly) Secret Service boat. Black RIB around 24-28 feet, with 3 large, large outboards.
Of course an ex-president wouldn't go out on a rough day, but still, what a show of useless power. No need for bottom paint, just wind it up to 80 mph and the scrubbing is done!

It's amusing to me that he would bring Secret Service along on a sightseeing tour, Maine is about the safest place for a smart mariner.

Re: Opinion of Bush

I agree with ya Willy, especially the part about going back to boating and fishing. This other stuff is important, but way to heavy for this forum. I'm off to another thread. I'll bet there's something funny somewhere else in the Off Topic section....

Re: Opinion of Bush

Eric, I think that the Secret Service calls the shots, and they know that there are psychos out there so they stick to the President like flies on . . . well, you know. Besides, even Secret Service agents need to have a little fun! ;D

Rick, I'm with you. If I wanted to talk politics I'd go elsewhere, not that you all don't have valid points, but I'm here for the boats! (and a little humor, too!) I'm not gonna look at this thread again!

Re: Opinion of Bush

Hey Pipe...hope ya come back for this...one of the Secret Service guys had on a T-shirt that read: ''ATTACK ME...I need the practice!!....''

Re: Opinion of Bush

Ex-C.I.A. Official Says Iraq Data Was Distorted

From the NY Times today:

WASHINGTON, Feb. 10 — A C.I.A. veteran who oversaw intelligence assessments about the Middle East from 2000 to 2005 on Friday accused the Bush administration of ignoring or distorting the prewar evidence on a broad range of issues related to Iraq in its effort to justify the American invasion of 2003.
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The views of Paul R. Pillar, who retired in October as national intelligence officer for the Near East and South Asia, echoed previous criticism from Democrats and from some administration officials, including Richard A. Clarke, the former White House counterterrorism adviser, and Paul H. O'Neill, the former treasury secretary.

But Mr. Pillar is the first high-level C.I.A. insider to speak out by name on the use of prewar intelligence. His article for the March-April issue of Foreign Affairs, which charges the administration with the selective use of intelligence about Iraq's unconventional weapons and the chances of postwar chaos in Iraq, was posted Friday on the journal's Web site after it was reported in The Washington Post.

"If the entire body of official intelligence on Iraq had a policy implication, it was to avoid war — or, if war was going to be launched, to prepare for a messy aftermath," Mr. Pillar wrote. "What is most remarkable about prewar U.S. intelligence on Iraq is not that it got things wrong and thereby misled policymakers; it is that it played so small a role in one of the most important U.S. policy decisions in decades."

In an interview on Friday, Mr. Pillar said he recognized that his views would become part of the highly partisan, three-year-old battle over the administration's reasons for going to war. But he said his goal in speaking publicly was to help repair what he called a "broken" relationship between the intelligence produced by the nation's spies and the way it is used by its leaders.

"There is ground to be replowed on Iraq," said Mr. Pillar, now a professor at Georgetown University. "But what is more important is to look at the whole intelligence-policy relationship and get a discussion and debate going to make sure what happened on Iraq doesn't happen again."

President Bush and his aides have denied that the Iraq intelligence was politicized. Stephen J. Hadley, the national security adviser, said in November, "Our statements about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein were based on the aggregation of intelligence from a number of sources, and represented the collective view of the intelligence community. Those judgments were shared by Republicans and Democrats alike."

Reports by the Senate Intelligence Committee and the presidential commission on weapons intelligence headed by Laurence H. Silberman, a senior federal judge, and Charles S. Robb, the former Virginia governor and senator, found that C.I.A. analysts had not been pressed to change their views. A second phase of the Senate committee review, on how administration officials used intelligence, has not been completed.

Mr. Pillar alleged that the earlier studies had considered only "the crudest attempts at politicization" and that the real pressures were far more subtle. "Intelligence was misused publicly to justify decisions that had already been made," chiefly to topple Mr. Hussein in order to "shake up the sclerotic power structures of the Middle East," he wrote.

According to Mr. Pillar's account, the administration shaped the answers it got in part by repeatedly asking the same questions, about the threat posed by Iraqi weapons and about ties between Mr. Hussein and Al Qaeda. When intelligence analysts resisted, he wrote, some of the administration's allies accused Mr. Pillar and others of "trying to sabotage the president's policies."

In light of such accusations, he wrote, analysts began to "sugarcoat" their conclusions.

Mr. Pillar called for a formal declaration by Congress and the White House that intelligence should be clearly separated from policy. He proposed the creation of an independent office, modeled on the Government Accountability Office and the Congressional Budget Office, to assess the use of intelligence at the request of members of Congress.

Mr. Pillar suggested that the root of the problem might be that top intelligence officials serve at the pleasure of the president.

A C.I.A. spokeswoman, Jennifer Millerwise Dyck, said the agency had no comment.

Danielle Pletka, vice president for foreign and defense policy studies at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, said that the C.I.A. had long resisted intervention in Iraq, and that internal pressure on analysts to resist war was greater than any external pressure.

"If the C.I.A. had spent less time leaking its opinions, throughout the 1990's, opposed to any conflict with Iraq, and more time developing assets inside Iraq, the agency would have more credibility and better intelligence," said Ms. Pletka, who served for a decade, until 2002, as a Republican staff member on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

Re: Opinion of Bush

On a regular schedule the New York Times is caught red-handed creating or adjusting news to fit their own political agenda. I would not put a lot of faith in what they print until a few more better respected news outlets carry the story. If the above info is true then it will slowly start making the rounds in real news. Honestly, I don't think there is a lot of truth to it or Katy Couric would have him on already she hate GW and this would make her all gushy.

Re: Opinion of Bush

The NY Times is the most accurate and reliable news source we have.

But if you like CNN better: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...nce/index.html

or if you like Fox news: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184514,00.html

Re: Opinion of Bush

Wow, it just doesn't stop! >:( >:( >:(

Sell off public lands for a measly 1 billion! That land will be lost forever. Yea, that oughta help the largest deficit this country has ever seen.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184538,00.html

Re: Opinion of Bush

Well, I guess I this thread is going to go down hill as political discussions often do.

The man was elected, then re-elected and now he will be another chapter in history, good or bad.

Then we can sit back and seen things done the right way by someone elses candidate/president

Considering the alternatives he is the best we could have gotten.

I totally disagree with the abitrary selling of public land I think it should require congressional approval. Public land is just that PUBLIC, meaning it is my land for my use as a citizen.

On that note, I think this thread should be allowed to die a quiet death before someone gets thier feelings hurt or actually gets mad this is to good of a forum to allow that to happen