Originally Posted by bradford (Post 196741)

Agreed.

Add to that:

The 14th amendment.

Creation of the federal reserve in 1912/1913, additionally the IRS.

Creation of Socialist INSecurity and gold confiscation by that bastard roosevelt (How many times was he elected?...... HMMMMMMM).

Removal of the gold standard by nixon.

The situation we find ourselves in is much bigger and deeper and has been going on for much longer than what 99% of the people think. People should research on their own instead of relying on corporate owned media to tell them whats going on. THEY ALL LIE!

Originally Posted by yodaddy (Post 196734)

Socialism has given us the gimme mentality that will destroy us, and emboldened politicians to keep doing more of the same. The politicians keep on giving away our money to buy voting blocks, but that train is headed for a major wreck. Welfare cost us $1 TRILLION this year, with 40% of that being borrowed money. How long can it continue?

Originally Posted by spareparts (Post 196757)

yo-daday, this will get you started, its boring, but its very informative http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=_vM2r5CXP3kC you'll get tired of hearing about Charleston. It explains a lot about the origins of the Democratic party and their efforts to reintroduce the caste system of government to this country.

Thomas Sowell fills in a lot of gaps that Wikipedia and other on line reference leaves. Search u-tube for Thomas Sowell, beyond that
you'll have to get books to get facts, there's a lot that's been edited for the internet that they don't want to remind anyone about. I did a search for the Democratic party time line of events the other day, funny thing, they left that whole slavery/civil war off their time line,

While your searching Thomas Sowell, this is a pretty good video to watch as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwqho...eature=related


and yes, I'm wearing my tinfoil hat

Originally Posted by reelapeelin (Post 196761)

Speaking of gimme mentalities...have ya noticed how many US corporations making mega bucks, not only don't pay a dime in taxes, but also receive government subsidies...the trillion dollars you mention is a drop in the bucket compared to the corporate welfare you don't hear so much about....then we can talk about the 2 BILLION dollars A WEEK spent supplying the troops in Afgahnistan that goes to Haliburton, GE and the like who also pay no taxes and are not subsidized, but wholly supported by our tax dollars...cut them off and cut the trillion you mention...and see who HOLLERS the loudest...man if we're gonna complain about welfare, let's talk about the one that's REALLY costing us money...

Originally Posted by yodaddy (Post 196770)

Big corporations hire people, build things, and create wealth. You get less of anything you tax, so of course, let's tax corporations into the ground. The only major corporations I hear of that aren't paying taxes are GE and Apple, both of which are in bed with the Obama regime.

We shouldn't be in Afghanistan. The majority of the 9-11 terrorists were Saudi nationals, so we retaliated against Afghanistan. Go figure.

Originally Posted by willy (Post 196764)

T. Sowell is brilliant.

I think that there are greedy capitalist's, there are greedy politicians.
But I also believe it is highly pessimistic to subscribe that generalization to millions of companies and thousands of politicians. No I said there are those who cheat and those who don't
I also believe that sex and money have made the world go around since Adam first munched the carpet and the apple.
But to take a company from a idea to a major corporation is exactly what capitalism is all about.I didn't say it wasn't...I applaud those who have until such time as they think buying our government is a business strategy. BY and FOR the people doesn't include corporations and I'm surprised you agree w/the Supremes that it does
And the men and women who did those things also built our railroads, cities, communications, medical facilities, international trade, automobiles, computers, telephones.
You get the drift.Yeah...I think I got it
They also brought art, science, museums, culture where there was none before.
So, yea. They DID build that and they deserve to reap the rewards and they should be able to influence legislation that will prevent others from taking what they built etc. While I believe a given government should provide a business friendly atmosphere that doesn't work AGAINST any sized business you and I could not be further apart on the issue a business should be able to influence government. The way that is handled is called Bribery and I find that a hard train to board
It is life. It is the human condition. The human condition has shown a propensity to murder ea/other from time to time...should we repeal those laws and accept that as well, that's just what people do?
While I agree that certain reigns need to be put on them by "We the People" through our elected representatives so that there is a fair competition in the market place I believe it is very idealistic, or utopian to believe we are going to eliminate it.Below you say , We can fix it by eliminating greed...sounds pretty idealistic and Utopian to me
What you have in a Statist, Socialist, Communist or Progressive systems is a hierarchy of government rulers deciding the winners and losers, not the customers. The ruling class elite who add ZERO value to society as a whole pick those winners and losers to increase their power, wealth and ego.
All the while maintaining the masses to do their bidding by doling out the table scraps to them. Yeah...I call it Trickle Down Economics
Meanwhile no one rises, no one succeeds and society as a whole moves through life as sheep. Like joining one of the two mainstream political parties, kinda...then living a life of, My party right or wrong kinda sheep thing..
Creativity dies. Exceptional ism does not exist.
This is the life that these societies all through history experienced. And when the population expressed some resistance they were killed, sometimes in the millions.
No, I think I will do much better in a capitalist society, even with its greedy head and dirty politician sometimes rearing up.It was a "sometimes" thing long ago...today it's the third largest money exchange in the country...
And I do not expect perfection in life, but I do expect an opportunity.
And when all is said and done, every single swinging richard in this country has that in spades.
To say they don't is an outright lie.
So now, we have in our nation a population that votes itself more free sh!t from those people, called the "rich" by the current keepers of the socialist/progressive agenda who are in power, and social justice when under threat of force they confiscate the earnings of others to render to those they deem their power base a cradle to grave existence. Notice I said existence, because if you are kept by keeper and dependent on him for your very existence you are not living, you are not thriving. You are a slave.
And here is where we stand.
About half this country is working and paying the freight for the other half.
And many have fallen for the propaganda that it is the greedy rich, the evil corporations and the capitalists that have done this to us. Or some version of that scheme. Not me...I know better
Some would have you believe we can only take action by throwing them all out, or that we can only fix things by eliminating money and sex from those that hold office. I don't believe a typical politician can engage in enough sex for that form of Bribery to be much of a threat...now money on the other hand he can take in amounts that move mountains
We can fix it by eliminating greed, or some other generalized claim such as all liberals are scum, or anyone who believes we should return to a Constitutional Republic are right wing zealots. Wow...that reasoning makes ME a right wing zealot
No we can fix it by being honest, humans have flaws, we all have some. We fix it by getting government out of the business of running American Citizens lives. Getting the government out of the business of picking winners and losers in our economy. Getting government out of business...and more importantly, getting BUSINESS out of government
We let capitalism happen. And we stop looking for utopia,Y'all have a way of taking arguments to the extreme like, You can't balance the budget on the backs of the rich...that's a true statement...but taxing the rich can sure as hell CONTRIBUTE to balancing the budget...just as a continued search for Utopia, while futile in its goal, will certainly better us all we will not find it until we meet our maker. We keep high ideals, but save the generalizations that serve no purpose except for those who wish to spend their lives in the Rectory or the Academia hypothesizing.Those who don't understand ideas precede reality apparently wish to live in a cave and scoff at the notion of the WHEEL...GENERALIZING ALWAYS COMES BEFORE PARSING THE DETAILS...
And we do not elect those who would offer benefits for nothing and chicks for free as long as you can close a blind eye to what the man behind the curtain is doing and are willing to give up our greatest gift.
Liberty.Liberty...that's my whole point...how much of it are you willing to give up? for me it's not an INCH...for those who accept big money buying politicians as human nature, apparently it's a much greater measure...it's NOT a "sometimes" thing any longer...it's the status quo...the tail IS wagging the dog

Originally Posted by reelapeelin (Post 196778)

You took it to the extreme to diminish its credibility...I didn't say nor would I support, "Taxing them into the ground"...there is a point of balance that they can afford and remain viable and still contribute beyond loading the tax burden on the employees...if yer OK w/paying more taxes so corporations can pay none then that's your call...

Originally Posted by reelapeelin (Post 196778)

Afghanistan is where our enemies retreated to so they could have quick access to the Pakistani border...which is where we got Bin Laden...he didn't hide in Saudi Arabia.

Originally Posted by reelapeelin (Post 196778)

And BTW...the Trillion dollar figure mentioned earlier in welfare is an exaggerated number...what ever it is, I agree w/you it's too much and needs to be trimmed back...and most of all, having babies to provide a check has got to be stopped..that policy is pure madness...and it's obvious that neither party has the cajones to stop it...