Swapping Motors... A few questions...

[Bygracealone]

Guys, I haven't looked closely yet as I haven't had the time, but will the engine swap between the Hydra (1991 225 Evinrude) and the V (1996 Johnson Ocean Pro) be as simple as I expect it to be? I believe they both use the big red plug. Do I have to swap controls as well? I hope not...

Also, should I try to continue to use the system check gauge that's currently hooked up to the Ocean Pro? It would be nice to have the alarm in case the engine overheats... By the way, right now the alarm goes off upon startup for a few seconds, then turns off, but the oil light comes on... I've been running premix the whole time, so I'm not worried about the light, but I'd like to disconnect the VRO altogether. Do you have to disconnect one of the wires going to the gauge as well so that the alarm doesn't go off for the missing connection to the oil resevoir?

I saw the thread Skools posted on how to disconnect the VRO, but is it really as easy as that on the later models too? The Evinrude also has the VRO still hooked up and running. I want to disconnect it on both of them. A local outboard mechanic is telling me to be really careful and he's recommending that I keep the VRO going... I'd rather not.

One more thing... I have premixed fuel in the V, straight gas in the Hydra. I don't know for certain how many gallons of fuel I have in the Hydra. Previous owner said he thought there was about 50 gallons... What should I do in order to make sure I get the 50:1 ratio??? Do I have to empty the tank and refill?

[THEFERMANATOR]

In 95 the harness changed on the JOHNNY-RUDES, but there is an adapter available to connect the newer engine to the older harness. But I believe you'll lose your system check guage with the adapter. The control cables should hook right up though. I persoanlly get rid of the VRO, DON'T TRUST EM AT ALL! I mix it 50:1 with PENNSOIL synthetic blend, but I know SKOOLS goes 40:1. And your fuel tank should be 84 gallons, so you could add the oil to it and top it off with fuel. Or start emptying it out into your other vehicles and some fuel cans and add the V's fuel back into it.

[Bygracealone]

Ferm, what do you think about the system check gauge? Is it worth trying to keep?

[THEFERMANATOR]

Your major hurdle will be hooking the 91 up to a system check harness. The syatem check system seems alright, but not a requirement. The only real advantage is that the system check turns on a light telling you which system is malfunctioning, but with the VRO disconnected the only warning will be from an overheat. At the minumum make sure and install a self test horn(3 wire) if you use the old style harness on your 96. The self test horn will still alarm for about 2 seconds on start-up like the system check does. The main difference is that the system check guage controls the horn since it only uses a 2 wire horn, and the 95- had a self test feature since they simply grounded out the signal wire to turn it on.

[Bygracealone]

Hmmm.... Sounds like I might just want to swap motors and harnesses? Would that be easier?

[THEFERMANATOR]

That would probably be the simplest way. The 96+ with the system check uses the modular harness with 3 or 4 plugs, whereas the 95- used the big red plug with a trim and tilt harness seperate.

[drj]

I personally would switch the harnesses and the motors. I like the system check on my 96 200 johnson. I think it would be worth keeping if its not a big deal to switch the harnesses.

[Bygracealone]

Guys, I'm a bit confused (not surprising...). Here is what I have on the V20. There's a red cable connecting the engine harness to the control harness?

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/bygracealone/Swapping%20Motors/100_2581.jpg

Then, at the control box, I had to jerry-rig it to connect to the red plug on the control box (I took it from my old 85 Evinrude and spliced it together so that I could use the plug with the plug on the control box. Did I simply make my own adapter by doing that? Also, does that mean this control box was for an older OMC? Here's what I did:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/bygracealone/Swapping%20Motors/100_2583.jpg

Here is the control box on the Hydra with the 91 Evinrude:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/bygracealone/Swapping%20Motors/100_2584.jpg

And this is what it looks like underneath (notice, there's no red plug):

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/bygracealone/Swapping%20Motors/100_2585.jpg

It looks like the same control as this one on Ebay:

http://i20.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/eb/ae/d12e_1.JPG

Any further advice? I'd like to keep the control that's currently on the Hydra, but it looks like I might have to swap them out too?

Skools, would you like to be my superhero? Feel like taking a short roadtrip to MD? :-)

[cterrebonne]

yeah they rigged it. you need a new harness from the controlls to the engine. and then just hard splice the new harness back to the controll box. also your box is a newer style and the one on ebay is older than yours. your warning system might work, worst case scenario you need a horn and sys check guage.

[drj]

Im not sure if this will help you but that control is the same type we have on our 1996 200 johnson.

[THEFERMANATOR]

The red plug was for 95 and older. The red plug was used at the engine end, and at the control box the wires normally hooked straight to the switch. Your older control box probably just had a short harness on it that was meant to be hooke directly to the engine's plug under the cowling. How does the harness hook up to the engine on your WELLCRAFT now? And the control is a standard style OMC control. The 96+ is known as the MWS style harness, or modular wiring system. It used deutsch connectors on all of the connections, no more screw type connections like the 95 and older. It looks like you cut the end off of your MWS harness for the ignition switch and butt connectored it to the red plug to hook up to the old style control, but retained the system check plug for the guage. You can use the MWWS harness you have and just wire it to an old style switch with ring terminals, and then string that red plug back to the 91 engine and hook it up direct. Follow me?

[Bygracealone]

Whew! I'm trying to follow you Ferm :-)

Okay, in the pictures above, all the pics that show the red plug are pics of the way things are currently wired in the Wellcraft. When I got my 96 J/E it came with a harness that had a red plug at the engine end and I think it just had individual wires coming out of the harness at the control end, but I think it also had the tilt/trim wire connection and the system check connection alongside it.

It also came with the control that it's currently hooked up to. That control came with a red plug at the end of it (the control box harness is only a couple feet long). So, when it came time to hook things up I had individual wires from the engine harness that needed to be connected to the wires in the red plug from the control box. So, I looked around and I found a red plug on my old 85 Evinrude harness. I cut it off and spliced it to the individual wires (the colors matched up on both) and then presto! I had a red plug end to join to the red plug from the control. Oh yeah, the control also has the ignition with it whereas the ignition is separate on the Hydra. I hope that clarifies things a little...

So, let me see if I really have followed you Ferm. Are you saying that the harness I received with my 96 motor was an older harness since it had a red plug on one end?

Okay, I had to look up what Deutch connectors are and now I know :-)

http://www.msdignition.com/np2002/images/pn818481.jpg

Yes, I have a number of these connectors down by the engine side and also on the system check gauge.

The Hydra is hooked up the way you described. Red plug at motor end and wires connected directly to the switch at the control box.

http://www.msdignition.com/images/pn818481_big.jpg

[Bygracealone]

Im not sure if this will help you but that control is the same type we have on our 1996 200 johnson.

Hi drj, yes, that does help. Thanks.

You're talking about the control in the pics right? The one currently on the Hydra and the pic from Ebay... (just making sure ;-)

[drj]

Yes BGA I was talking about the first one that said Bombardier on it.
Hi drj, yes, that does help. Thanks.

You're talking about the control in the pics right? The one currently on the Hydra and the pic from Ebay... (just making sure ;-)

[Bygracealone]

Now I think I know what happened... I think the guy who sold me the 96 Oceanrunner sent me an older harness with an adapter... That would explain why I have the red plug AND the modular connections for the motor on the V20.

So, I guess I can just keep both harnesses connected as they are and just use move the adapter to the Hydra... If I do that, I may have to just buy a system check harness, but I'll have to look again to see if it's separate from the main harness or incorporated into the main harness.

Thanks for the help guys, it's greatly appreciated.

[Skools Out]

yeah OMC made an adapter to go either way old to new or new to old. i have both here i use testing motors. just use the adapter harness.

[THEFERMANATOR]

If you currently have the adapter, then just transfer it over to the HYDRA and go like SKOOLS said. One less thing to change over.

[Bygracealone]

That's what I figured, will do boys!

[csvencer]

Sorry to derail but figured this was a good place to ask...

Current setup..
Old controls, old harness, red plug to duetch adapter, 2000 Johnson.
With this setup I have no tach or system check gauge working (the plug is not there).

I bought the new harness from the 2000 Johnson up to the controls but thats where I have issues. Do they make an adapter from old harness/controls to new harness or do I have to hard splice them? If I bought new controls all would be solved, and I would be all smiles... suggestions?

-Svence

[cterrebonne]

pn 176345 would have gotten you straight from the get go. but if you have a new style wiring harness, you will then need a key switch pn 176408 it comes with the horn. then you need either a syscheck tach or a sys check guage.

[csvencer]

pn 176345 would have gotten you straight from the get go. but if you have a new style wiring harness, you will then need a key switch pn 176408 it comes with the horn. then you need either a syscheck tach or a sys check guage.

DAMN. 176408 I don't think will work, as the controls have the key on them, but 176345 would have done it! Well live and learn. Off to watch ebay for some cheap controls.

And now just looking at that 345 harness I think I am better off where I stand. $200+ for the harness and I am still with the old controls. I can use the harness I have and upgrade to new BRP controls for less than $300.

Thanks for the help.

-Svence

[THEFERMANATOR]

The only real difference between the old style key switch and the 96+ ids the newer one uses a pigtaile with the connector whereas the old one used screws with ring terminals. The actual ignition switch should be the same size and fit inside your control box. If not find somebody with a junk ignition switch from a 96+ and cut the connector off and splice it in to your current switch and hook it up.

[Bygracealone]

Well guys, I've been slow to post pics; In fact, I didn't take any pics during the swap... However, here are a couple of pics as of today:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/bygracealone/Hydra/HydrawithJohnson2.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/bygracealone/Hydra/HydrawithJohnson.jpg

Turns out, all the wiring is coming together just fine. I've connected everything except for the system check harness on the Hydra with the Johnson. I'll take care of that on Monday, Lord willing.

Ferm, how difficult is it to run a new harness from the console to the rear? I've done it fairly easily on the v20, but I don't think it's going to be so easy on the Hydra...

Also, I got the 91 Evinrude 225 on the V20. She is going to FLY with that 225!!! I hope to hook up all the wires, etc. on Monday and be ready to put her up for sale next week :-(

[THEFERMANATOR]

Haven't pulled any wires through the HYDRA yet, but there is a rather sharp bend under the console where it goes over the tank. Look to see if somebody left a pull wire or nylon cord down there to pull your harness. If not get you a piece of heavy fishing line or nylon rope, and find a transducer wire or something to use to pull a pull cable with. Make sure and make your pull cable long enough so that you can tie it in a continous circle when pulling. Makes it alot easier down the road if you leave a pull cable in there.

[Bygracealone]

Ferm, any recommendations on where to install an on-board charger on the Hydra?

[THEFERMANATOR]

I know on the 2 that I have, the batteries are in the console. And that console is pretty big inside. Don't see why a charger wouldn't mount right up on the port side inside the console, and then a 110 connection right there as well.

[Bygracealone]

Both my batteries are currently at the stern, starboard side... I plan to move one of them to the port side (once I remove the VRO tank), but will probably leave them and the stern and use the console for storage... There's not a whole lot of storage on these boats...

That said, I do have a 110 already installed on the starboard side of the console...

[THEFERMANATOR]

Somebody must have moved them then, I have 2 hulls and both of them have the batteries inside the console.

[Bygracealone]

Somebody must have moved them then, I have 2 hulls and both of them have the batteries inside the console.

Hmmm.... what do you have under the jumper seats in the back?

[THEFERMANATOR]

One of them has the old VRO oil tank(it will be going away very soon), and the other side is wide open except for the fuel filter. My other hull is wide open for storage under both of the seats(escept for the filter).

[tsubaki]

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/bygracealone/Hydra/HydrawithJohnson.jpg

[Bygracealone]

Thanks for the compliment Tsubaki...

Yep, she's a lefty. I even found the right cowling for it with the right decals...

[randlemanboater]

Looks good on there BGA!

[Bygracealone]

Thanks RMB!