Seacast Transom Repair

[drj]

HI
Does anyone know how much seacast I would need to fill my v20 transom. Also, if i want to raise my transom in the center from 20" to 25" can I build a waxed wood form to pour the seacast in for the last 5".
Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

[Airslot]

Search for "Maury's" thread. He used 15 gallons when he did his with a similiar,maybe better material. Either Arjay or....ah, I can't remember. Look around in repairs or mods

[macojoe]

Here you go, he has a lot of detail and pictures also!! We expect the same from you also!!


http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/showthread.php?t=8830&page=2

[drj]

Here you go, he has a lot of detail and pictures also!! We expect the same from you also!!


http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/showthread.php?t=8830&page=2

Yes I will document it as best i can =). It is going to take me a while because i am still in school but during the beginning of the summer i hope to have my boat finished =)

[drj]

Well i started to drill out a little of the old wood in the transom today and it didn't turn out like i had expected. I was using a spade bit and it kept falling between the two pieces of delaminated plywood and getting stuck and it ran down my drill batteries faster then they could charge so I'm going to use a big electric drill now =). Later i went to harbor freight and got auger type bits. they should work better. I'm going to try the new bits and the chainsaw tomorrow if i can. =)

[mauryc]

DRJ,

Call me and I'll be happy to give you more details of my rebuild. Can I ask why you chose Seacast?

Call me.
225-342-5944 (W) till 4:30 cst
Maury

[tsubaki]

drj, in raising the transom 5", I'm not sure if you will need any extra support or if just the Seacast will be allright. The inner and outer skin everywhere else with the Seacast will do fine.
In my mind you would want some woven material extending to the sides and bottom of the area being filled as you pour, or even a piece of fiberglass board like this. I just don't know.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w159/tsubaki3/Picture028.jpg

[mauryc]

On the raising the transom question, I would definately not let the fill material stand alone. I would form the inner and outter skins first in the raised area and pour the whole thing at once. The Arjay and Nidacore are strong (I'm sure Seacast is as well), but they are meant to be use as coring material, not structural components by themselves.

[drj]

After reevaluating the transom on my boat and digging out the top 6 inches in the middle of the transom I decided to not use seacast or any other type of transom filler. One reason, as you guys had said the filler would not be as strong unless encased. I did contact seacast and they said it would be fine to raise the transom by pouring the seacast in a form and then covering the bare seacast with three layers of fiberglass cloth. It was good to know that it could be used that way but I have decided i would rather be safe and raise the transom the traditional way using plywood.
Thanks for your input, it did help me decide. =)
I am going to start planning to do my transom the traditional wood way. Do you guys think that it is necessary to used marine plywood or will regular be okay. And i originally thought that using two pieces of 3/4" plywood would be best but upon investigation i can see that currently there are three layers of plywood in the transom. I have decided to take the outside transom skin off to do the transom for two reasons. One is there was a professional transom job done recently before i purchased the boat and they reattached the stringed to the inside skin and that is still in great shape.The second reason i think that i am going to cut off the outside is that the outside skin already has a lot of holes and problems that need to be fixed because the previous owner tried to do his own transom job and cut the center down 5 inches causing the rot. =(

[tsubaki]

I like your original plan of attack better of pouring the transom.

[tsubaki]

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 07-18-2007, 12:37 AM
drj (http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/member.php?u=439) http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/images/statusicon/user_online.gif
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: fort myers fl
Posts: 15
http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/images/misc/im_icq.gif (http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/showthread.php?t=7644#)

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/images/icons/icon1.gif Transom help On a v20 center console

Can Someone Please give me some suggestions or ideas of how to do a fiberglass transom repair and strengthened. Here is the problem. The transom was replaced professionally and he did a good job except he left space between the new wood and the old fiberglass. I know how to handle that just grind and re glass the corners of the motor well. From there I'm stuck. The last owner did a botch fiberglass job to shorten the transom for a 20 inch motor. he did not glass the top of the wood good after he cut it but there there appears to be no problem. the problem is where the bolt holes are. Water got in fro the lack of silicone on the bolts and rotted a 3 inch radius around each hole. Can someone please tell me how i can tie in a piece on the top to make it a 20 inch transom again and fix the holes. The transom is not in horrible condition I took an old Johnson 120 off of it and will replace it with a 200 this is not overrated for the boat but I want to make sure with a bigger motor that I do not have any problems.
Please help
thanks
**********************



drj, are the old repairs that big of a mess or you think redoing the same way will be easier?

[drj]

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 07-18-2007, 12:37 AM
drj (http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/member.php?u=439) http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/images/statusicon/user_online.gif
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: fort myers fl
Posts: 15
http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/images/misc/im_icq.gif (http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/showthread.php?t=7644#)

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/images/icons/icon1.gif Transom help On a v20 center console

Can Someone Please give me some suggestions or ideas of how to do a fiberglass transom repair and strengthened. Here is the problem. The transom was replaced professionally and he did a good job except he left space between the new wood and the old fiberglass. I know how to handle that just grind and re glass the corners of the motor well. From there I'm stuck. The last owner did a botch fiberglass job to shorten the transom for a 20 inch motor. he did not glass the top of the wood good after he cut it but there there appears to be no problem. the problem is where the bolt holes are. Water got in fro the lack of silicone on the bolts and rotted a 3 inch radius around each hole. Can someone please tell me how i can tie in a piece on the top to make it a 20 inch transom again and fix the holes. The transom is not in horrible condition I took an old Johnson 120 off of it and will replace it with a 200 this is not overrated for the boat but I want to make sure with a bigger motor that I do not have any problems.
Please help
thanks
**********************



drj, are the old repairs that big of a mess or you think redoing the same way will be easier?

Believe it or not that is the same transom job that I was talking about in that old thread that you found. I had to get my boat out of my dad's shop because he had to bring his stuff in to work on so I haven't touched the boat since then. =(

I'm not sure I understand what your asking.
Before I bought the boat the transom was redone by a professional fiberglass shop. Then the guy I bought the boat from notched it down 5 inches and didn't put the cap back on where he notched it which allowed water to get in just in the center of the transom. I was going to did the whole thing out and re=do it with seacast until I saw yours and mauryc's replies which made me think about raising it with the seacast and how it would not have as much support. So now I am back to square 1 and I think I am going to redo it with wood. I was reading some threads on here and I saw a link to this other site. This looks about what I was thinking to do now. I am not 100% set on it though. http://classicmako.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15745


tsubaki- I hope i answered what you were asking but if not just let me know.

[tsubaki]

I remember the Mako thread, that transom was straight and not tapered like (most of) the V's. Correct me if I'm wrong but the piecing of the transom with wood and cutting the outer skin seems a lot more work and expense than digging and pouring.
Try to post some pictures of this project and/or maybe someone else has better ideas than me.

[drj]

Okay I am going to attempt to post some pictures that I have. Well I thought the seacast would have been easier but when I started to take the wood out I realized the wood was in much better shape then I thought and i calculated the seacast to cost at least 650 for 15 gallons plus whatever else needed.

here is a link to the pictures I'm not sure how to post them directly.
http://picasaweb.google.com/drjmoo1/BoatTransom
the rest of the boat is completely sanded and I am in the process of repairing the cracks and things but I didn't sand the transom area because I didn't know what to do with it yet.
One picture has red lines where I was thinking about sectioning in the new piece.
Thanks for all your ideas. let me know what you think of the pics.

[tsubaki]

I'm just not comfortable about cutting the outside skin on any boat unless there is no other way.
THIS IS A PICTURE OF drj's BOAT.
http://lh3.google.com/drjmoo1/R-sG9mthQfI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/jrXihOqvnEE/IMAGE_00058_edited.jpg?imgmax=720
And what you're proposeing looks rather radical, but that's just me.
Need somebody elses input.

[drj]

I do see your point and I am open to any ideas and am not dead set on anything because I want to make sure it is going to hold up. I did have an outboard break off of an inflatable boat transom once and it wasn't a fun experience. I can't imagine trying to recover a 200hp off the bottom of the river. I did see this picture in one of the galleries and this is where I got the 3 piece transom idea. http://www.wellcraftv20.com/gallery/albums/album109/scan0001.sized.jpg

[THEFERMANATOR]

SEACAST is expensive, that is why the one member recently went with ARJAY instead. I know it was ALOT less money(about 1/2 as much I believe). Go rent you a chainsaw and get the wood out the easy way. And the pic that TSUBAKI posted would not be removing enough glass to get the old wood out of there IMHO.

[tsubaki]

I agree with Theferm, but look at the price of an electric chainsaw and don't use oil in the bar (I used my wifes).

[drj]

Ya I could go with Arjay. But I am not sure I could raise it the 5".

[drj]

I started with the chainsaw today. I was wondering how you cut through the fiberglass between the sheets of plywood. My saw would not make it through them.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I started with the chainsaw today. I was wondering how you cut through the fiberglass between the sheets of plywood. My saw would not make it through them.

If there is glass in between the sheets of wood, then it has been replaced before. Never heard of the factory putting glass in between the sheets before. They normally would use the little squares of wood like they did on the decking in the transom.

[drj]

Yes i think it has been done before. The chainsaw really didnt do anything to the glass it just bounced off. I didnt realize that the arjay was half the price of the seacast and it seems to be just as good or better.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I think the Arjay 6011 and Nidacore pourable transom compound are exactly the same thing. Both are ceramic spheres in poly resin. The cured samples look exactly the same. The Arjay was from Fiberglass Services in Saraota for $106/ 5gal pail. Nidacore from their website is about $115. Shipping is what kills you. I got three 5 gal pails plus a quart of MEK-P shipped to Baton Rouge and the shipping ran about $130. Seacast was expensive and looks lumpy when poured. The Arjay ran like butter. We hammered the hull for air pockets but there was really no need. I guarantee every void in my transom was filled up by this stuff.

This is a quote from the member who just did his transom with ARJAY 6011. $130 a 5 gallon bucket shipped don't sound that bad. Last I heard SEACAST was going for $220+ shipped.

[tsubaki]

I started with the chainsaw today. I was wondering how you cut through the fiberglass between the sheets of plywood. My saw would not make it through them.

Drill bits and extensions, experiment with different types to see which is most useful.
Find out what size file the saw needs and sharpen the chain.

[mauryc]

Just my .02 again. Seacast markets the heck out of their stuff so people naturally see it more and think its the standard. The boat manufacturers use the Arjay and Nicacore pourables. I doubt any boat manufacturer uses Seacast. DRJ, if you have the small transom (like the one in tsubaki's post), I guarantee you'll use much less than I did. Just guessing, I'd say you'd use around 10 gallons. Do what I did, measure the transom and lay it out on grid paper and use 1.75 inches as your width. The smaller transom means you have the luxery of probably reaching the limits of the entire inside of the transom with an 18" chainsaw. I had to resort to the metal pry bar method which was labor intensive, and would be moreso if your wood wasn't completely rotten. I was lucky, my wood was shot. Finally, if you can't get the middle piece of fiberglass out, leave it in there. You want all the wood out. It will make it difficult to shopvac the pieces out but pour around it. Once you coat it with resin, the pourable compound should adhere to it fine. Call around - you may be able to pick up the Nidacore or Arjay locally and save shipping.

Maury

[drj]

Just my .02 again. Seacast markets the heck out of their stuff so people naturally see it more and think its the standard. The boat manufacturers use the Arjay and Nicacore pourables. I doubt any boat manufacturer uses Seacast. DRJ, if you have the small transom (like the one in tsubaki's post), I guarantee you'll use much less than I did. Just guessing, I'd say you'd use around 10 gallons. Do what I did, measure the transom and lay it out on grid paper and use 1.75 inches as your width. The smaller transom means you have the luxery of probably reaching the limits of the entire inside of the transom with an 18" chainsaw. I had to resort to the metal pry bar method which was labor intensive, and would be moreso if your wood wasn't completely rotten. I was lucky, my wood was shot. Finally, if you can't get the middle piece of fiberglass out, leave it in there. You want all the wood out. It will make it difficult to shopvac the pieces out but pour around it. Once you coat it with resin, the pourable compound should adhere to it fine. Call around - you may be able to pick up the Nidacore or Arjay locally and save shipping.

Maury
well I did my calculations and I was able to find out that I am going to need about 15 gallons. I tottally agree with you that seacast is marketed more heavily and my first thought was that the arjay and nidacore weren't available to non boat builders but then I checked out the supplier you said you got yours from and it turns out I am within range of their same day delivery service. That it my concern now that I won't be able to get all of the wood out because it is only rotted right where the motor is but where I drilled first the chainsaw had no problem handling. mauryc do you happen to know the item number of the drills that you mentioned from harbor freight. I got some auger bits and they seemed to work well but I couldn't find my bit extension so I want to try to get the same drill bit you said worked well for you. thanks guys for all your help and for answering my questions.

[mauryc]

25'' LONG x 1/2'', 9/16'', 5/8'' WOOD BIT SET

ITEM 33450-3VGA

As far as the quantity, I'm not knocking your calcs, but if your transom is as thick as mine, there is no way you'll use 15 gallons unless you spill a third on the floor. I had calculated 16-17 for mine but only ended up using about 14. I guarantee my transom has more surface area than yours (if you have the older style transom). On the other hand, you'd hate to start the pour and come up short. If I recall correctly, I ended up calculating about 3900 cubic inches of void using 1.75 inch thickness.
maury

[Airslot]

I've had this question in my head for a long time now...

If only the center section were rotted, and you removed all the roted wood, leaving a very rough jagged surface on the remaining wood, could you just pour that section?

Or would that leave you with a "3 Piece transom"?

[mauryc]

That just makes me nervous. I'd feel much better with a uniform pour that I know has adhered to the skins.

[drj]

I learned indirectly from the people at seacast that it will bond well to wood. I like the arjay now that I looked into it more. I could be wrong but the seacast and arjay are not the same. Seacast uses fiberglass strands and arjay uses ceramic. Do you think arjay will bond well to wood like seacast supposedly does?

[mauryc]

I wouldn't chance it - and I wouldn't chance Secast bonding to wood either. If you're going to leave wood in the transom (which I don't recommend), soak it well with resin and make your pour when the resin is still green. In fact, coat it once and let it set then coat it again. This should go a long way toward proper adhesion. Arjay and Nicacore pour like latex paint. From what I've seen, seacast pours like chunky vomit. I used a rubber mallet on my transom to release any air pockets, but it wasn't necessary. That stuff filled every void with ease. Make sure EVERYTHING - even the smallest hole is sealed. It will run everywhere.

[Stillrunning]

I'm just not comfortable about cutting the outside skin on any boat unless there is no other way.
THIS IS A PICTURE OF drj's BOAT.
http://lh3.google.com/drjmoo1/R-sG9mthQfI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/jrXihOqvnEE/IMAGE_00058_edited.jpg?imgmax=720
And what you're proposeing looks rather radical, but that's just me.
Need somebody elses input.

I did not read this entire thread but if this is the boat I would just remove the inner shell. It looks like you have removed everthing that needs to be removed and all you need is a large tree limb, a pully, rope, and a truck. I took out my inner linner to replace my transom and after I got all the stuff off of the boat it only took about 1 hour to get the linner out and most of that time was rigging the pully and lines. You can then inspect the runners and the florring of the boat.

[drj]

HI again.
I know you all may be tired of me changing my mind on this transom =) but I have finally decided I am going to do a full traditional transom replacement using coosa board. I am going to do it from the inside. A friend of my dad's that now manufactures boats with what used to be the manatee boat molds had a chance to come and look at it for me and this is what he recommended. He said there wouldn't have been any way for me to remove all the wood from the top because it was only rotted in a small place and the other wood had been bonded well. Also because I wanted to make it a full 25 inch transom the pour method wasn't the best method in this situation. I hope I will have an opportunity to begin this weekend. I'll take some good pictures as soon as I begin =).
I was wondering. When cutting fiberglass with a cutoff wheel of grinding it with a grinding wheel do you use metal cutting wheels or masonry wheels. I had been using metal but I though maybe someone may have tried both. thanks guys.

[Stillrunning]

HI again.
I know you all may be tired of me changing my mind on this transom =) but I have finally decided I am going to do a full traditional transom replacement using coosa board. I am going to do it from the inside. A friend of my dad's that now manufactures boats with what used to be the manatee boat molds had a chance to come and look at it for me and this is what he recommended. He said there wouldn't have been any way for me to remove all the wood from the top because it was only rotted in a small place and the other wood had been bonded well. Also because I wanted to make it a full 25 inch transom the pour method wasn't the best method in this situation. I hope I will have an opportunity to begin this weekend. I'll take some good pictures as soon as I begin =).
I was wondering. When cutting fiberglass with a cutoff wheel of grinding it with a grinding wheel do you use metal cutting wheels or masonry wheels. I had been using metal but I though maybe someone may have tried both. thanks guys.

So are you going to cut the rear of the inner linner or are you taking the two section apart.

[drj]

Cut the rear of the inner liner. This had been done before by a repair company to replace the transom the first time and I need to fix their finish work anyways.

[Stillrunning]

Cut the rear of the inner liner. This had been done before by a repair company to replace the transom the first time and I need to fix their finish work anyways.

I still think now is a very good time to take the boat apart and check the stringers at the same time. You have everything done to just take the boat apart and its easy from here.