Transom repair - Here we go..... (long)

[mauryc]

Folks,

Some of you may remember I posted a while back about my need for a transom and my intent to use the Arjay 6011 or Nidacore pourable compounds. Well, the time has arrived. I began the operation this weekend. As background, I purchased what I consider a very pristine 88' dual console from the original owner knowing it had a little flex in the transom. I had the transom replaced in my previous V-20 (75' cuddy with twin 115's). After visiting the shop over and over and seeing the finished product, I convinced myself I could do no worse. The last thing I wanted to do with my current boat was cut the inner liner or worse, the top cap so I said lets try the ceramic.

With the motor off, I drilled out the rivits on the aluminum transom cap, removed the swim platform and tow eyelets and had a look. The splash well and top cap wrapped around the transom, so I used my 41/2" grinder with a cutoff blade to remove these pieces so I could get to the wood. The wood on the upper part of the sides was mush. The hardest wood was actually where the motor mounted and I assume because it was compressed at that location helped it last longer. For those of you who laughed or were scared of the chainsaw method, let me put you at ease. VERY easy. You'd have to try really hard to cut through the inner liner much less the hull. You can very easily tell when the blade hits the glass. I purchased a $10 set of 2' wood bits from Harbor freight to aid in wood removal. Again, easy to tell when you hit glass. I've spent about 5 hours so far removing wood and I'd say I have 90% out. My 18" chainsaw is to short to reach the limits of the sides so I'll be borrowing a 22' this week to finish the removal this weekend. I plan on sanding the inside till its clean, applying a coat of polyester resin and pouring the Arjay 6011 that I ordered this morning while the resin is still green. It's messy, but my top cap and liner are still in one piece. Will it be as strong as a traditional job? Maybe, maybe not. The few times I'll take it offshore I think I'll be OK. It will be stronger than what I took out, that's for sure. (PICS TO COME)

Maury

[Stillrunning]

Sounds good and I'm interested to see the pics of hoe the procect was done. Don't keep us waiting.

[tsubaki]

Started the same thing the same way this week on my gigging boat but gonna pour the assend with glass and cloth like the V.
It's an old "74 Owlcraft.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w159/tsubaki3/002.jpg
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w159/tsubaki3/003.jpg
This made it much easier doing the V and this boat.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w159/tsubaki3/004.jpg
A 3"x24"x1/4" piece of flatbar cut on a 45* to finish the scrapeing.
The weight alone does most of the work.

[mauryc]

That 75' is an "easy access transom". That thing I got makes it hard to get it all out - the sides of the transom are so darn high. How's yours held up since the pour?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/09-03-2007021.jpg

[lumberslinger178]

murauy are you doing this to the dually???

[tsubaki]

Less than a year since it was done, so no real comparing yet.
Yes the dual should be a lot harder than the cuddy.

[tsubaki]

The thread Still has some picture problems (my fault) but here is some of it.
http://www.wellcraftv20.com/community/showthread.php?t=2808&highlight=specs&page=6

[mauryc]

"murauy". Lumber, what the heck is that????? I know Maury is unusual, but??? :)

Yep, the dually is undergoing surgery. Ordered the Arjay 6011 yesterday so it should be here by the weekend. Because of my schedule, I plan to pour the weekend of the 8th. I'll have the aluminum transom cap made the following week (about $100), then I should be good to go. I've got my fingers crossed, but so far so good.

Maury

[lumberslinger178]

[quote=mauryc;114267]"murauy". Lumber, what the heck is that????? I know Maury is unusual, but??? :)

LOL sorry some times I get excited....:beer:

[mauryc]

OK, for all you pic hoes...........

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/transom/P1010294.jpg
I had already done alot before I remembered to take pics. Here, the 175 is off and I removed tow eyelets, swim platform, aluminum cap and the bottom drain plug.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/transom/P1010288.jpg
a 2' wood bit from Harbor Freight

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/transom/P1010286.jpg
My Poulan chainsaw did the trick. Don't be afraid of this step.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/transom/P1010287.jpg
more chainsaw

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/transom/P1010284.jpg
You need something small to suck out the debris. The iron pipe worked well and was heavy enough to aid in wood removal.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/transom/P1010293.jpg
The end result

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/transom/P1010281.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/transom/P1010282.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/transom/P1010295.jpg
Picked up two new drain tubes at the local West Marine. Definately the cheapeast thing I've ever purchased there.

I think if I can sand it clean I can get a pretty good bond.

More to come.................next weekend.

[C YENSEN]

never seen anyone do a transom that way. looks good, and good luck:clap:

[cterrebonne]

never seen anyone do a transom that way. looks good, and good luck:clap:

works real well we did it that same way on my first v-20 plus we put a alum plate with a cap on it also. the alum cap and plate was overkill though. its just really time consuming. but better than putting the cap.

[Blue_Runner]

Nice purple chainsaw. :you:

Maury, lookin good. I think you should be able to get a good bond.

[lumberslinger178]

Maury Iam impressed !!!
When I changed my drain thing I didnt use a tube I just mounted my plug to the exterior with some 5200 and painted over it .... should I have used this tube??

[macojoe]

If you have a rubber plug I would have!! But I like the screw in type much better, that you just 5200 the hole sides so is water proof and screw the flange on, takes a few more min to add & remove but I like better

[mauryc]

Lumber,

My lower drain is the brass screw in type (pipe threads). There isn't a brass thru-hull tube there. The tubes I bought were for my splash well drains up top. I'm sure its the same set up as yours.

Maury

[tsubaki]

Used my wifes electric chainsaw and emptied the oil out of it, figured I didn't need any in the transom.
Keep the pics comming.

[mauryc]

OK, transom is poured. Pics to follow. Total time to prepare transom - approx 5-6 hours. The worse the wood is the easier it comes out. Coated the inside with two coat of poly resin and poured within a half hour. A reminder here- make sure ALL holes are covered as this stuff is the consistency of thick latex paing and it will find the holes. Gells within a half an hour then gets HOT - so hot you can't touch the back of the boat. I'll say it again when I post pics, but I'm sure the fiberglass purist will negate the benefits of this product. You couldn't get it out of my transom without dynamite. I'm sold. I may not be able to bring it to get the aluminum transom cap till early next week - we'll see how my week goes.

Maury

[THEFERMANATOR]

You may have answered this question already, but I couldn't find it. Why did you go with the ARJAY over the NIDACORE? I remeber you said before you weren't impressed with SEACAST(can't blame ya), but what was the decider for the ARJAY? And how much did the ARJAY cost?

[mauryc]

I think the Arjay 6011 and Nidacore pourable transom compound are exactly the same thing. Both are ceramic spheres in poly resin. The cured samples look exactly the same. The Arjay was from Fiberglass Services in Saraota for $106/ 5gal pail. Nidacore from their website is about $115. Shipping is what kills you. I got three 5 gal pails plus a quart of MEK-P shipped to Baton Rouge and the shipping ran about $130. Seacast was expensive and looks lumpy when poured. The Arjay ran like butter. We hammered the hull for air pockets but there was really no need. I guarantee every void in my transom was filled up by this stuff.

[Stillrunning]

So your saying your total cost was around $500.00?

[mauryc]

Yes sir. About $475 for the three 5 gal buckets plus activator. I did use about half a gallon on poly resin to coat the insides. I'll need a little more to seal the vertical sections of the transom that are open to the inside. I'll make sure I have a pic of that so you can see what I'm talking about. I spent $10 at harbor freight on the 2' drill bits and I picked up a few other things that I thought would help that I ended up not needing. And I had to buy the 3' x 3" steel bar that I used to scrape the remaining wood off the inside ( I don't have as much junk lying around as I used to - my wife makes me keep it clean). Anyway, that bar at Lowes was about $10. All in all, probably not much more that $550. If you can get a chainsaw that will reach the limits of wood throughout the entire transom, that is the ticket. Mine was to small so I had to resort to physical labor. I could have rented a 24" for $65, but I was dumb and said I don't want to spend that. In hindsight, I should have rented it and been done with it in no time. Hopefully pics when I get home tonight.

Maury

[tsubaki]

Just rolled the drain plug sleeve about 15 minutes ago.
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w159/tsubaki3/001-4.jpg

[mauryc]

Here we go with more pics.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010280.jpg
Here she is all taped up. Important note, don't use cheap painters tape. It doesn't work well. Make sure EVERY hole is closed. There was one at a seam on the inner liner that I could not have known about unless I had filled her up with water.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010283.jpg
The inside, not quite finished.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010281.jpg
Another inside view. She looks pretty clean. I sanded as much as I could. I found that using the long drill bit as a sander worked well. It scrapped the sides pretty clean.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010284.jpg
Here is my metal bar scraper. Can you say physical labor?? I was pretty sore after a few hours with this.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010289.jpg
Another ready to pour shot.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010288.jpg
Time for a break and a beer prior to the final steps. Yes, that's a self portrait.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010304.jpg
No actual shots of the actual pour as it was a two person job. Here's my traffic cone fullel.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010290.jpg
I coated the interior really well with resin before I poured the transom compound. Here is the small roller I used.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010293.jpg
The first pour. The stuff really self levels. This is looking toward the side (starboard?)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010295.jpg
More pour

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010292.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010303.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010302.jpg
Here's the high tech engineering to block up the sides. Use good tape as this stuff leaks through even the smallest hole.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010305.jpg
See what I mean

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010310.jpg
The finished side. Wrinkles are from the duct tape that was covering the wood block. The space is there because the void tapered down toward the outside of hte boat. The transom compound was at the top of the void on the outter edges of the transom. I guess I can pack it with resin and cloth, but why bother? Nothing screws into that section and its only about two inches out of the entire transom height. I doubt it provides little, if any support.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010307.jpg
Finished with a little sanding. I added a small lift on the top just so my transom cap would have a shelf to sit on. The original transom had some really uneven, thick bondo type filler on top. One side of the transom had about 1/4 inch of filler and the other side had about 2". Did they cut the wood that crooked at the factory?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%202/P1010308.jpg
The stuff is as hard as concrete.

More to come. Comments anyone?

[macojoe]

That looks like a great job!! Can't wait for the finished product!!

About the alum cap, Skools and Stinky I believe have removed them as they just allow the water to get down inside rotting the transom!

They just glassed them over sanded and done!! no more top! I liked the idea and with this stuff you are using a cap will not be needed and neither will rotting be a issue ever again!

[THEFERMANATOR]

Comments anyone?

Yeah, I got 2 transoms here.


WANNA COME DO THEM TO?:sly:

[Skools Out]

yeah how hard is it to drill and how well can you mount stuff in the transom with screws? don't cap it with metal glass it over rounded like new boats looks better and never an issue,

[Skools Out]

here ya go

before

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Monoco%2021/21_boat_010.jpg

after primer and glassing

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Monoco%2021/21Boat042.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Monoco%2021/21Boat037.jpg

after paint

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Monoco%2021/MVC-005S-3.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a46/Skools_Out/Monoco%2021/21Boat-224.jpg

[mauryc]

I was hoping to not have to paint and do any finish work. I don't want it to look like a patch job. But I may consider that. I know the cap won't do anything but provide looks. As fas as screwing an drilling, I'll get to that next. I haven't begun to remount anything yet.

[bradford]

Looks great! Whoever redid my transom glassed over the top like skools did. Awesome pics and good commentary. I might be picking up a project boat that I know needs transom work and I don't really want to get into pulling the cap.

Did you use all 15 gallons? and if not is there a formula to figure out how much material is needed for the thickness and area of the transom?

[spareparts]

along the same question that Bradford asked. Did all 15 gal go to the V, or did you do your little boat also?

[C YENSEN]

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

great job, great post......Hammer would be proud

[parishht]

I really like the detail in this post,
I think I could do a transom this way aaaaannnnndd
I think I may need to do mine in the next couple of years.

:clap::clap:

[mauryc]

I just took measurements with a tape measure and drew it out on engineering paper. The key is the thickness. I did my calcs using 1 3/4 inch wood thickness and the dimensions were out to the sides of the hull. I came up with almost 4000 cubic inches or almost 17 gallons. I took about a gallon off of that for outter hull thickness. I knew it would be close. The void was closer to 1 1/2 inches thick and the void didn't extend up as far on the sides as I thought. I ended up using about 14 gallons total. I had received a free gallon of the stuff as a sample a while back so I had about 16 gallons on hand. When I did the sides, I mixed up a gallon at a time.

Spareparts, I don't own a little boat - that was tsubaki's contribution to the post.

Its not 100% complete, but here are some of my thoughts. I DID NOT want to pull the cap or cut it in any way. I don't go offshore much anymore - this boat will spend most of its life in the lakes and bayous down here pulling tubes and keeping beer cold. I feel this transom will certainly hold up to that. I live in a subdivision so I can't (nor did I want to) have boat parts spread all over my yard for weeks on end. I wasn't able to hang a hoist from anything to pull the cap off so I chose this method. I was able to contain the mess to my boat port. Finally, the cost was probably a little more than wood and glass, but not much. Quality resin is expensive. And obviously, taking it to someone would have been $2k easy. My transom in my old 75' V was $1500 about 15 years ago. I didn't have that $$ to invest in a boat I paid about $4k for.

Removing the wood is by far the hardest part (except for removing a 175 Johnson without a hoist!) So far, I have about 10-12 solid hours in the project (removing the wood was most of that time). The pour took longer than I thought - about 3 hours. That's mostly because of the upper parts of the transom and I had to let the lower part solidify so the stuff wouldn't ooze out when I poured. All in all, that's not bad.

Final pics and comments soon.

Maury

[macojoe]

See if you took my word way back when, we could have all called for a sample like you then shipped to you and it would have been free!!

Remeber this parishht, you and 15 brothers and you all set!!:beer:

[tsubaki]

:clap::beer:

[Blue_Runner]

Awesome work Maury! This is the best post ever for this method.

Do you know how much one gallon weighs? Trying to figure how much weight 14 - 15 gallons is going to add to the rear end....of course after you subtract weight for the wood and resin you would have used I'm sure its not all that much heavier. That should last forever!

Great job! You deserve a cold miller lite after all of that!

Blue

[mauryc]

Per the Arjay website,

Weight per gallon: 7.1 - 7.3 lbs/gal

[macojoe]

Heck thats only 110 pounds give or take!! Thats nothing!!

[lumberslinger178]

thats great work keep the pics coming

[msbhammer]

WOW, who is this guy ????, look at all I have missed !!!. Great work man, Hats off to ya. Cant believe the cost either, and the time as well you saved. I must have put out $1800.00 to redo my transom myself, plus the super long hours I put in as well.
Again, great job brother, glad to have ya hear as a member to help others out.
Hammer.

[cfelton]

Fine job you did there Muaryc.That thing looks d@m good. Looks like your about ready ta hang that motor on and go!!

[bigshrimpin]

Wow . . . I think I'm a believer now on these pourable transoms. Looks great. Screw and glue method is about 3 days of full work (going through the outside skin), 5 gallons of resin, and two 4x8 sheets of 1/2" marine plywood (3 layers), Fiberglass Mat and tape . . . but if this will get'r done in 10 hours and requires less finish work . . . I'm in!!!

[spareparts]

ok, heres a question I've been pondering over, what about combining the pourable transom with Coosa/Penske board. Cut pieces of coosa to loosely fit in the transom area, it doesn't have to be a close fit as the purable transom mix will fill in. Then pour the stuff in around the board, just wondering if there would be any weight savings, strength enhancements, or even cost savings. I've been trying to figure out a test to compare the feesability and strength as compared to straight pourable transom with spending too much $$$. Next time I'm at the fiberglass shop, I'm going to pick up some scrap coosa and part of an old transom, now if I only had the time

[bigshrimpin]

Spares I don't see why that wouldn't work. If you want super strong adhesion . . . then drill some 2" holes through the coosa . . . that will let the pourable resin pass through the large pieces.

[mauryc]

Well guys, I guess I need to finish this thing up. As of 5:30 on Tuesday after Easter I haven't got the motor mounted back on yet. That is scheduled for this Saturday morning. Holidays with family over has slowed the process. I did however take the boat to a local fab shop and thry made the aluminum bracket to cover the transom. I know some of you would have just sanded and painted and not worried about the cap, but I wasn't comfortable with my finishing skills with glass. I set out to have an OEM look and I think I will accomplish that when all is said and done. I'm not that happy with the cap - its made out of thick material and id didn't fit as well as the original. I had to use alot of 5200, silicone and some big screws go hold it down, but she's not going anywhere. Hell, its just a transom cap - the motor will cover most of it.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%203/P1010308.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%203/P1010307.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%203/P1010306.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y197/BRbanana/Transom%203/P1010305.jpg

I'll post a final pic when I get the 175 back on.

Maury

[tsubaki]

Hear that crap? "Just a transom cap".
Man that thing looks great.
I finished mine off with Marine Tex and that was it.

[macojoe]

Looks great!! But why the 3 cuts in the long leanth??

[chumbucket]

My guess is that because of the thicker gauge aluminum, they cut three kerfs to allow it to form to the curve in the transom.

[C YENSEN]

My guess is that because of the thicker gauge aluminum, they cut three kerfs to allow it to form to the curve in the transom.

that would be my guess as well

[mauryc]

Yep, when I first saw it I was (and still am) wodering they cut the vertical flange and not the horizontal flange. Makes no sense to me. I would have cut notches out of the top, bent the piece, and welded the seams. But, I can't weld aluminum and for the price I guess I shouldn't complain. Pending rental of the engine hoist this weekend to remount the motor, I have right at $650 in the entire project.

Maury

[msbhammer]

Only $650.00 !!, man, you got off cheap. Great Job. I did mine the old skool way, but the modern times are taking over. great job Bro.

[mauryc]

Gentlemen, the motor is back on. My wife and I used a engine hoist and a little muscle to get it lined up and mounted. I found my transom cap is so thick that the motor doesn't seat flush against the transom. I need to get some washers or aluminum scrap of the same thickness to level it out. Other than that, no problems. She cranked right up. I took the boat to get the front seats made (just like Lumber's), so I'll post final pics when I get it back. I'm very happy with the pourable transom product. I have a solid transom and I have no visable signs of repair. My top cap and inner liner are still in one piece. Longevity of the repair is yet to be determined. I hope everyone found the process useful. I'm sure I could have produced more pics, but......maybe next time.

Maury

[bradford]

Excellent post mauryc!

[bigshrimpin]

Maury - Get a set of wedges from Bob's Machine shop. That will fix that problem and give you some good performance getting out of the hole. They're like $30 + shipping.

http://www.bobsmachine.com/images/trans_wedges.gif

[Bygracealone]

There you go; nice recommendation BS. That'll do the trick.

[mauryc]

Excellent, they are on their way. Wish I had them when I was mounting the motor!

[lumberslinger178]

Gentlemen, the motor is back on. My wife and I used a engine hoist and a little muscle to get it lined up and mounted. I found my transom cap is so thick that the motor doesn't seat flush against the transom. I need to get some washers or aluminum scrap of the same thickness to level it out. Other than that, no problems. She cranked right up. I took the boat to get the front seats made (just like Lumber's), so I'll post final pics when I get it back. I'm very happy with the pourable transom product. I have a solid transom and I have no visable signs of repair. My top cap and inner liner are still in one piece. Longevity of the repair is yet to be determined. I hope everyone found the process useful. I'm sure I could have produced more pics, but......maybe next time.

Maury

Maury, this was a great thread ..... I hope I never have to do it ! but if I do I will refer back to this thread.:sun::clap::clap::clap::clap: