Oh the misery....Help! Need input

[Parrot6909]

Well, looks like the boating season may have ended for me before it began. I purchased my V20 off of ebay back in Feb or March, don't remember which one.....Boat was a freshwater boat, 200 merc and trailer.....Boat was said to need cosmetics but was "structurally sound". What a bunch of BS. Floors were solid until the temps went above the freezing mark as was the gas tank cover. Floor isn't terrible, just a few soft spots, figured I'd use it as is for this year and then put in a new one over the winter. Gas tank hatch was going to be pulled in another week or so to fix that. Well....took the boat to the marina yesterday to have them tune up the 200 merc and put in a new waterpump, yadda, yadda......said to the guy, how much for bottom paint and repairing a few scrapes? He said lets look at the scrapes. So we crawl under my baby, take a look most of it was just war wounds from hitting the trailer, no big deal. Then (other post about this) we took a look at the cracks that were "from hitting the trailer"......they aren't. Stringers have delaminated from the hull causing the cracks.....fiberglass guy is going to call with an estimate on fixing them but of course the stringers that popped are right under the cuddy. I don't have the time to fix it myself or I would (hence having them bottom paint the boat). What would you guys do? Right now I am into the boat for $3500. My wife loves the boat which is huge in and of itself considering every boat we have owned up until now she has greatly disliked. I have no idea how bad the $$$$ is going to be. It will need new stringers, deck and as long as its all up I'll do the gas tank too, heck why not do the transom? But a local guy quoted me 1500 for the floor, at least that for the transom.....the boat's an 86'. Any advice you can give me would be great. Tell me what to do here......I feel sick, gotta go...... :'(

[Mac_Attack]

I have a 90 V20 paid 6500 for it. *It's in great shape. *Therefor I would say you've got 3-4 thousand to get it in good order. *They are a great hull with a great ride. *If you have the money go for *it. *Bill Mc *;D

[Parrot6909]

Want to sell me yours? I'll trade!

Feel like I am going to puke. I am done with ebay. Too trusting, I wish more ppl were like me. I am honest, I'll tell you whats wrong with it, you decide whether you want to fix it or not.

More opinions please......

[macojoe]

well this is BIG!!

If it were me, I would try to sell it! Get all I could back even if you had to piece it out, which in this case might be the best thing to do!
Motor is going to fetch the best money, what year motor?? only freash water? I would say there is $2000+ for motor and controls.

Then start over with a different hull.

But this is me! You are in control so best of luck to ya!!

[Parrot6909]

Motor is a 1987 Black Max Merc. Hours unknown other then the prior owner (who is not my favorite person right now) only used the boat about 6 times a year for the last 6 years. Saturday (before getting the bad news) I hooked up the hose to her, put fresh batteries in and turned the key. She started right up. Motor was used in fresh and salt, primarily fresh though. Parting it out is an option I guess, but what to do with the hull if I decide to go that route?

Part of me says I should just scrap it, sell off what I can and start over...the other part says that if I go and find another V20 that I may end up in the same situation again......

Keep the opinions coming guys, I need all the help I can get!

[macojoe]

after selling the motor you will have most of the money back (your going to lose sum) and then put the hull and trailer on ebay for the best buck you can get.

you have $3500 in now, then another $5000 I am sure to fix, if not more?? for $8000+ you can buy alot of boat.

But if you fix what you have, you no what you got!!

sorry, but I am glad you have to decide and not me!!

[chesapeake724]

Sux, dude.

I guess it all depends on how much of a Do-It-Yourself-er you are. If you can sneak in the time over the course of a year, you'll save a lot of labor $$$ so your numbers won't sound as bad. It might take six months to a year to sell this one off, find another hull, etc. so you might have the same amount of "down time".

That said, if it were me, I know I wouldn't have the time with a day job, sideline gig, and three small children. It'd take me two years to fix all that, so I'd probably just dump it and shop for another one. There are some gems out there, but it takes a lot of work to find them.

[lucky_strike]

I would say that most of the cost of the repairs needed would be for the labor involved.
Paying someone at today's rates might be hard to justify; however this sounds like it could
be a do it youself project at a much more reasonable cost if you have the time and inclination
to do it.

I just had another idea. In my area there is a technical/vocational school in which the students
do repairs to cars and boats just for the cost of the parts required. The labor is free as a part
of their course. The process is not very fast, but if you are willing to lay the boat up for a
while, that may be something to look into in your area.

[Parrot6909]

See, that's the problem. If I had the time I'd do it myself, but with a little one at home and a full time job, there just isn't enough time.

My other issue now is that if my boat isn't in my slip by July 1st, I lose it. I am part of an association in my area, my slip costs me $300 for the year (doesnt get much better then that). However, new management took over the docks and if she isn't in by 7/1 I lose my slip. There is currently a 3 year waiting list to get another one....this is absolutely miserable.

[buckleyjr]

If it were me I would sell it and get another. Ripping it apart and going through the whole rebuild could be a great experience, but it sounds like you bought the boat to use now. Also, I bet your wife won't be too happy with all the extra money going into "that boat" - she'll be hating it real quick - mine would. Get rid of it and move on (to another v20 of course.)

You should also post a negative review on the guy you purchased it from on ebay. That really stinks.

[Zebra]

That story makes me sick... Ok what to do... How about putting the boat you have in the slip to keep the slip and selling the motor off the boat,youll be able to let someone listen to it run. If the trailer is in good shape keep it and go find another v20 without a trailer, thats been dry stored. I did this, I had to travel but found a good one... you might find a gem also...Look at boattrader.com... As far as the v20 you have sell the 200 merc. and controls after that maybe youll find a v20 in the same year and youll have some spare parts cuddy door, hatch covers in the rear, if the fuel tank is in good shape there is value there... You got over 350 guys here with the same hull. Does it have a bimini... You have value there even with the bad... Sounds like alot of work but hey if it was easy everyone would be boating... Thats what makes us different... Good luck and keep posting... Maybe the marina will help sell off the merc. if they make something... Keep the slip... Be prepared to drive to find one. Again, Good Luck...

[Parrot6909]

Thanks for the replies, keep em' coming. So far no one is really for fixing her unless I do it myself which isn't an option.

Discussed this with a few buddies a little bit ago....weighing out the pro's and con's...

Pros of keeping her and getting it fixed:
Brand new boat when done
No headaches worrying about rot if its done right
Look and work like new again

Cons:
Never get the $ back
Lots of other V20's out there that are in good shape


Pro's with finding a new one:
Instant gratification and back in the water

Cons:
ending up with the same problems I have now on a more expensive boat (haven't seen any for the 3500 price range that are decent).
Spending 7k on a solid one, losing 2k on this one gets me to the same point I am at if I fix it.....

Gotta love it, buy yourself an early 30th birthday present on a wing and a prayer and find out that your boat is shot....If not for bad luck, I'd have none at all.

[macojoe]

buy a small 12 or 14' tin boat and throw it on the slip. Calm morning you could play in the harbore for some fish and keep the slip at the same time!!

I don't no how much you no about Cape Cod, but my first boat 12 foot sears game fisher with a 6 hop johnson, I use to cross the cape cod canale to fish!!

I was never to smart any way ::)

[Zebra]

1987 V20 cuddy Boat and trailer 2 axle, no motor bimini and 3 sides Beaufort, SC. 843-522-9461 Butler Marine $2500 obo... Boattrader.com they have had it awhile... Like i said you may have to travel, but they are a marina and have a rep. to take care of, so you should get good info. before you drive...

[Parrot6909]

Not a bad idea, problem is that there is a length requirement for my slip....needs to be 20'. Maybe buy a couple 10' jon boats and string them together to make a 20? Ugh......i appreciate the idea though, i have an 11' in my driveway right now....just add water and it grows right?

Hit all the major boat sites that I know of for used boats...Boattrader, Salty dog, boat shopper magazine, AC Press, AP Press, Boats.com, Yachtworld.....don't see any for under 6k. That's fine, but the 6-7k range are early 80's hulls with OLD power....this is a big old zero on the fun scale.

[Blue_Runner]

Parrot, man I hate to hear all that. I thought I had it bad with my cracked transom.

I'm having to pull my motor and fix the crack. All the same thoughts have gone through my head. Since my floor is solid, I'm just going to let a pro fiberglass guy fix my transom. Then I'm new-motor shoppin!

If I were you (in a sense I am - two kids, full time job, etc.) I think I'd have to sell it and try to find another one. Just my opinion.

[buckleyjr]

How about this in the Asbury Park Press? You already have a trailer....

20' WELL CRAFT Step V '82 Rebuilt 140. Trlr Xtras! $4700/bo 732-681-6966

[Parrot6909]

That's not a bad deal in the press......I'll give the guy a call and see if its still around. There is another one down the road from me with a 95' Evinrude on it....problem is he has a stringer coming up thru the floor so I'd have two bad boats and two good motors......

[Parrot6909]

left him a message. One of the guys I always look to for advice on glass projects said that based on what I told him its not worth fixing. SO......I want to hear what the guy on Wednesday has to say, if there is a quick fix to get her in this year and then dump her.....we shall see. If it comes down to having to bite the bullet and find a new one, I will have ton's upon ton's of parts available. We shall see....really don't feel like working today, just want to go home and have a stiff drink. Trying to find another boat isn't what I had in mind for this time of year...nor was trying to find the $ that its going to cost me........oh well.

[fillet1]

Buy this for 3500:

http://www.thebassbarn.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=005991

For a little more you get the truck too.

Swap your engine on it, sell the rude and your hull and trailer for 2k

[Parrot6909]

Fillet....we must vist the same sites a lot! That combo has been out there for 14+ months now....Doesn't look in great shape from the pictures....its not a terrible idea though....still awaiting one final response from the marina's fiberglass guy...hope its a good call ala we can do it and its going to be cheap....tho I find that Highly unlikely. I'd settle for, if we do this you can use her this year, then decide what to do. Doubt that happens either. We shall see....just keep the responses coming guys! Maybe something will click in this pea sized brain that I have.

[fillet1]

Parrot,

I agree about the pics! That boat has been for sale for a year. I dont think the guy is too reponsive to inquiries. But ya never know until you see it in person. Those old looper evinrudes run forever!!! Commercial guys snatch them up used.

Where did your present boat come from? (NJ?) Did you know about the cracks before you bought it? You said (I think) that there was epoxy or putty or something on one of them? are the cracks open or just spider webbed? Did you test run the boat before purchase?

I heard somewhere that rainwater/freshwater rots wood faster then saltwater? Maybe the fresh sloshing around in your bilge had something to do with it?

I feel your pain.

[Parrot6909]

Fillet----boat was from ebay. There was a thread in the for sale section about the boat......Guy even responded in there stating that everything was "rock solid". What a bunch of BS. The cracks in the chine area are open ever so slightly. The spider webbing is about 2' long on each side of the crack. Couldn't see it in the pictures nor was it listed that way. Unfortunately I don't think there is any recourse other then the lesson learned.....it just outright sux. My wife was talking to me yesterday about how nice it looks and that she wants to help me redo the interior on it so it looked like new again. Trying to figure out what she could buy for it for my 30th birthday in September. Haven't told her the news yet...too upset right now. We are on a single family income, just me....my wife stay's home with my son. Extra money doesn't fall from the trees......whatever I decide to do is going to be done in the form of a loan, I don't have any other choice....My max price was 5k, spent 3,400 and change on this one thinking the extra 1600 or so would be use for upgrades....well, I guess I thought wrong.
The boat was a mostly freshwater use boat. Used on lake wallenpaupac up in northern nj. Guy didn't do crap to the boat. Its really a shame.

[fillet1]

I just re-read the ebay ad. Did he send you pics of the cracks in the bottom? Can you post them here?

Was the boat owned/sold in the name of his company or him personally? Who did you write the check to?

I'd get a second opinion on the stringer delamination. The boat looks nice otherwise.

[Parrot6909]

Was sold by him personally. There was no mention of the cracks....when I picked it up it was getting dark out, didn't notice them until about a week later, they were definitely there before though, there is some kind of peanut butter colored stuff filling in the cracks. The boat on the exterior looks great, interior leaves a whole lot to be desired but I didn't care about that. I was planning on painting her up and making her beautiful again. I can probably get pictures of the cracks in a few days to post.....problem is that its at the marina and they open after I leave for work and close before I get back. I asked the seller about the cracks after I had paid for the vessel, he said he was "unaware" so if that is the case, they have been there for 6+ years now.

What does seem odd to me about all of this is the transom is rock solid. Wouldn't you think if the stringers are shot that the transom would have gone too????

I am surprised the auction is still out there, thought it would have been 90 days already. He also failed to say in the ad that the skeg is missing a chunk out of it...look at the pictures of the lower unit, you can tell if you look really hard.....Guy must be a professional photographer for a living. The rod boxes were shot, seats don't budge so the floor there is still good.....just don't understand.

I know I am jumping all over the place. I thought I found a decent deal. Maybe it will just be some bad glass and not the stringers, the guy who looked at it yesterday said it was but who knows, maybe I'll get lucky yet!

[CT_V-20]

Parrot, I have been following this thread but your last post broke my heart, because like you, I don't have a $$ tree out back and am on a single income for the same reason. First, be thankful for what you've got, this is just a boat. Second, the absolute #s aren't huge so even if you take a complete loss I imagine you'll have situations in your future where you lose even more on other ventures. Third, establish if the boat is safe to float, that way at least you know you can put in your slip if you need to and don't let your insurance lapse. If it isn't, July 1 is a long way away and you could probably find something else in that time period. Fourth, it totally sucks that it often seems like you're the only honest person around, but it isn't true. And for sure, what goes around comes around - if the seller screwed you intentionally then he will get his eventually. Fifth, sell the thing with full disclosure either locally or on ebay and start fresh once you get comfortable with the timing on keeping your slip. When I lost my Sea Ox I was surprised at how much I got for the boat, motor and trailer in a totally honest sale. In fact, those proceeds bought my V-20. Good luck.

[Parrot6909]

Thanks CT......I have been on this board for years now, saving every penny I had hoping I could buy one of these. I have fixed up plenty of boats, 7 in total, to get enough $ together in order to buy my baby. I remember the first time I visited this site, pre-new home page many moon's ago, salivating over the hull on the home page.

I am thankful for what I have, believe me I am. I am thankful for the fact that I took the boat to the marina to have them look at the scrapes on the bottom to see if they could marinetex it. There are only two things in my life that are worth more then anything money could buy me, my wife and my son. Thankfully I lucked out by having the guys look at the bottom, maybe I saved our lives, who knows.

And even though I feel totally ripped off I still think the guy "may" have been honest. From what he told me this was his first boat, didn't really know how to maintain it etc. He thought the gas tank cover was supposed to flex due to foam under it....who knows, maybe its been like that since he got it and he was ripped off too....

I know things will work out and I appreciate everyone's input, I truly do. This is therapeutic for me right now...and I need all I can get!

[CapnBill]

Parrott

I know how you feel - hang in there - it is $3500.
I've know folks to go "up side down" for alot more than that - please don't tell my wife!

Anyhow, talk a look at Jester's post in WTB about a V-20 in the Baltimore Sun. Give the guy a call see if he still has it.
Jester say the ad says $3,200. Both Jester and I are local (I'm outside of Annapolis) and may be able to at least take a look see for you - snap a few pics etc.

OK on the the one from Ebay - the trailer is worth say $1K, the motor another $1k - so that at least gets some of it back.

BUT REJOICE MY SON - YOU SAID YOUR WIFE LIKES THE BOAT - THAT IS PRICELESS .....!!!

[Parrot6909]

I appreciate the offer Cap Bill. I may take you up on that.

As for the one in the Asbury Park press.......lets say the seller is a really nice guy. Trailer is new....um, motor is rebuilt and ok, my mom said if I couldn't say anything nice.......

Needs a new rub rail all around it, ton's of gouges out of it, transom is missing the tubing that goes thru it for the splashwell drain, stuck my finger in the hole and pulled out nothing but rotten wood. And firm at 4700...go figure ::). I am going to put mine out there for 6k!

[Vic]

Parrot, sorry to hear it man. Wish I could help.

[fillet1]

Parrot

I think you should just fix the boat you bought. Its a known quantity now. You know exactly what you are dealing with.

Please post the bottom pics that show the cracks.

Where are they located? How did your fiberglass guy determine that the stringers have delaminated?

The stringers are tabbed inside the hull so I dont see how, if they "delaminated" from the hull in the small areas that you have indicated that you would have gouge-like spider cracks on the outside unless the hull was flexing in that area due to lack of support? Others here would know that better then me.

Grind it out with a grinder larger then the crack area, west epoxy or marine tex it and throw it in the water. Run it for a while, pull it, and take a look. Make sure its insured on your homeowners policy in case of the worst. You keep your slip, get to use the boat and evaluate the problem at the same time.

The prior owner may have been running it for 6 years with the existing repair. I agree from the ad that he doesnt know his a$$ about boats. I dont know how he could have used a boat with a delaminated stringer for six years with no probs.

I dont know which kind of seller is worse - one who doesnt have a clue and therefore did no maintenence but claims the boat is perfect (in his own mind) or the seller who is very knowlwdgeable who misrepresents a known problem with the boat.

Lets seee the pics so the fiberglass experts here can help you out!!!

[Parrot6909]

Fillet, I am going to get pictures very soon, need to hit the marina tomorrow morning with the digicam......

The guy was tapping the area with a pen and it sounded hollow behind it. It looks like there was an impact on both chines, hence why I thought it was the trailer wounds on both sides since it coincides with the roller area on the trailer. Who knows, maybe the guy at the marina doesn't know either....still waiting for an glass guy to come look, they aren't sure when he is coming now. Wish I knew a good glass guy or a quality surveyor....The only survey guy I know doesn't have time to look at her until the fall which doesn't help me.....grrrrr.

[Parrot6909]

Sitting here and thinking about Fillet's last post.....the guy tapped the area with a pen and it sounded hollow. Could it have hit the trailer at some point, cracked the chine which caused water to get in, had a bad repair on it which caused the spider webbing further back? Thus just being a bigger area to grind and marinetex vs. gutting the boat? Thoughts??? I know, we need pictures....I'll get them tonight, just throwing some thoughts out there...this emotional rollercoaster needs to stop!

[Stinky_Hooker]

Parrot, sorry bro...I wish I could help, but seeing it is kinda a must . :(

[Parrot6909]

Planning on leaving early and taking a few pictures....hopefully I get there before they close! :-[

[golver1]

Hey man,

Just reading your thread. I am having similar issues. I bought a 81 V20 last year on ebay for $1300 with trailer. Still not in water. One thing after another. On top of that, I think the Hull may have some internal problems since the floors near the bilge area is bowed, but I dont know enough to tell.

Anyways, you said you had $5k to spend. This might cost a little more, but it looks sweet. $5k is the buy it now, bid may be lower. It would probably take you a weekend to get it, 10 hours down, $49 hotel room, and then 10 hours back.

Take a look: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4549554145&catego ry=31271

[Parrot6909]

Thanks glover! I'll take a look at it when I get home. Don't have ebay access at work.

Is it an Outboard??? (I hate not knowing!)

[golver1]

Yes it is an outboard:
175 hph Johnson motor rebuilt in Feb 1999 - Good compression

If yours is better, you could sell yours and probably recop half the price of this one. It also comes with a trailer:

1995 Loadmaster Trailer

You could sell one of the two you have and recoup a little more cost.

Also check out this one. It is an older hull, but from the pics (who really knows) it looks ok. It is has been on ebay a few times, but might be worth checking out. Outboard and trailer as well:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4550575968&catego ry=63725

Good luck and keep us updated.

[Stinky_Hooker]

Here man Ill helpa brother out: ;D

http://www.forumpictureprocessor.com/pictureprocessor/images/30_1_b.jpg

http://www.forumpictureprocessor.com/pictureprocessor/images/dd_1_b.jpg

http://www.forumpictureprocessor.com/pictureprocessor/images/85_1_b.jpg


1989 Wellcraft 20' fiberglass 175 Johnson ,Trailer *
Vehicle Description *

Questions: *Call Bob toll free @ 1-866-829-3662

Boat is for sale because I do not have time to use it. *

1989 Wellcraft 20' V20 with cuddie (cushions) & blue canopy

Interior cuddie cushions like new, blue print cloth

Boat is white with blue pinstriping

175 hph Johnson motor rebuilt in Feb 1999 *- Good compression

Power trim

1995 Loadmaster Trailer

Captains chair, area in back open for ease in fishing or sunning

Passenger seat folds down

Swim Platform

Am / FM stereo

GPS 48

Apelco 365 Fishfinder

Boat has been well maintained mechanically, regular servicing, have all service records

Boat used April of this year, 2005

Boat and motor is in very good condition, runs out well

Boat was dry docked untill August 2000, 1995 Loadmaster purchased at that time

Hull solid, in very good condition





Call Bob toll free @ 1-866-829-3662 at close of sale to confirm payment arrangements etc.

$1,000 deposit, Paypal, money order, cashier's check overnighted within 24 hours at the close of sale

Balance due 7 days after close of sale

Buyer responsible for pick-up of boat

[golver1]

Thats the one. Almost wish I had a buyer for mine, I would consider this one.

[Parrot6909]

Location? I have seen this one for sale on ebay before...think this is the second or third listing on it.....looks intriguing however, unless someone is local and can take a looksee...... Thought mine looked "good" from the pictures too.....a few minutes alone with her tells another story entirely. Thanks! If anyone is close and wants to look at her for me I'd be interested! Still waiting on my glass guy to look at mine and gotta get pictures!

[phester]

parrot sorry to hear of this unfortunate situation. If it were me I'd sell what youve got, maybe part it out, maybe even save the hull, if you've got the room.I'm sure you would be able to move some parts hereon this forum, windshields,rodholder boxes,bow rails,sliding hatches,cuddy doors etc.As far as that 89 w/ 175, I had my brother-in-law look at it for me about 3 months ago.He emailed me about 35 pics of the boat and it looked pretty good.I myself spoke to Bob,the owner,in detail,2 or 3 times and he seemed like a staight -up guy.He said he bought the boat 2 years ago from an in-law so he knew it's history, and he has'nt any problems w/ it other than reg. maitainance. Overall, the pictures looked pretty good for a 16 y.o. boat and my B-I-L said it looked good and sounded like the outboard ran well.The only down side with the whole package is that the motor was'nt too pretty,by that I mean the whole powerhead is "weathered", it looks like it was used without the engine cover on.The engine cover itself is fine,and the motor sounds good,it's just the powerhead itself is a little corroded,salty,bolts are a bit rusty, etc. It doesnt mean the engine is shot, its just dirty.Bottom line,he told me on the phone he'd take 4k and I'm certain that he'd go a bit lower than that.He's more interested in his harley now than his boat.If you can get passed a salty engine block I'd say give him a call.If I did'nt erase all the pics I could have sent them to you, they are long gone...sorry...If you get interested in this boat feel free to i.m. me through this forum,glad to help,best of luck!

[phester]

P.S., boat is in North Carolina about 15 min ride outside Wilmington

[Parrot6909]

Well, that one's gone...ugh.

I wonder how much I could realistically get if I just sold her outright before finding out the $$ to fix it. Fiberglass guy didn't show today, they aren't sure when he's coming....GRRRRRR

[phester]

looks like Island girl got it, sorry man,good luck, keep posting

[reelapeelin]

Parrot...looks like Zebra has viable solution.... ;)...

I know you got other probs, but I'm tryin' to figure out a marina that CLOSES...??... ???...

[Parrot6909]

I know....just need to bite the bullet I guess. Part of me just wants to sell the whole thing and start fresh.

As for the marina, their service hours are 8-6. The whole marina area is fenced in and unless you have one of those little credit card deals that lets you in...