black max 150 trouble

[willy]

HEY BIG SHRIMPIN AND REELAPEELIN HELP :'( I GOT A 1992 150 BLACK MAX THAT'S CRUSHIN MY NORTONS. TWO WEEKS AGO I'M ON THE WATER MOTOR RUNNING NORMAL, GOT BACK CLOSE TO HARBOR (THANK GOD) IDLED NEAR INLET FOR MINUTES WAITING FOR A BIG FERRY TO PASS, WHEN I TRIED TO ACCELERATE IT WOULD STUMBLE JUST BELOW 2G'S AND WAS IDELING POORLY. WOULD NOT LET GO PAST THAT AREA ENGINE WOULD DIE. I ALONG WITH MY FRIEND GOT IT INTO DOCK AND WORKED ON IT FOR AN HOUR. HAD FUEL COMIN THRU IN LINE FILTER WITH A GOOD SQUIRT. CHOKE WORKING GOOD. SPIN ON FUEL FILTER REMOVED DUMPED ALL LOOKED GOOD INSIDE. SQUEEZE BALL KEEPING IT'S ERECTION. MOTOR ALWAYS HAD A LITTLE STUMBLE WHEN YOU WOULD FIRST START OUT THEN RECOVER QUICKLY AND RUN LIKE ZUESS. IT WOULD START EVERY TIME . TOOK IT TO THE LOCAL MERCURY TECH EVERYONE SAID WAS GREAT. HE HAD BOAT FOR A FEW DAYS SAID I HAD NO SPARK ON TWO CYLINDERS SAME SIDE. STATOR WAS BAD AND SWITCH BOX. ALSO

[willy]

THE TRIGGER WIRE INSULATION WAS DECAYING. REPLACED ALL SAID I HAD GOOD SPARK NOW AND MOTOR WAS RUNNING GREAT. COMPRESSION WAS ON LOW SIDE 104 - 110 ALL 6 BUT HE SAYS THAT WAS STILL OK FOR MANY MORE HRS. TOOK WIFE AND KIDS OUT AROUND THE HOOK YESTERDAY GUESS WHAT. RAN GREAT FOR AWHILE AND DRIFT FISHED A BIT WENT TO MOVE ACROSS CHANNEL AND ITS DOING THE SAME THING AGAIN :-[ :-[ :-[ GOT IT TO FINALLY GET ABOVE 2G'S PLAYING WITH THROTTLE AND MADE IT HOME I GUESS THE FIRST $1000.00 WAS'NT ENOUGH NOW HE'S GOT IT AGAIN ANY IDEAS

[Skools Out]

lol spend the next $1000 on another power head and take off the oil injection.

[willy]

HEY SKOOL, I HEAR YA BUT THE SAD TRUTH IS I AM NOT SAAVY ENOUGH TO REPLACE A POWER HEAD MY SELF. AND CAN'T AFFORD TO EITHER. THIS IS SOME GLICH TYPE OF THING CAUSE THAT MOTOR RUNS STRONG ALL THRU RPM RANGE BEFORE THIS PROBLEM AND I NEED TO GET AS MUCH LIFE OUT OF IT AS POSSIBLE

[phester]

Hey Skool, you seem very well versed in outboard trouble-shoot and repair, so I'm gonna ask you for any feedback/comments on my outboard.It's a 1993 150 Oceanrunner [looper, or loop charged V6] is the VRO system is as reliable as they come, or am I just rolling the dice everytime I start it up? I've heard years of trouble-free operation and i've heard of cooked powerheads as well. Whatta ya think?

[Skools Out]

um my fav kind to fix are J/E Loopers. I've opened i would say 10 to 15 loopers in the last 2 years due to oil injection. Here's the scary part on OMC oil injection. The grey wire that goes into your fuel/oil pump it the wire that runs your tach. So a good rule of thumb is as long as your tach is working your oil injection is working. But if your tach should ever stop working shut it off ASAP. The tach is run out of the voltage regulator / rectifier. If it were to quit in the ocean and you couldn't get home to keep from cleaning out the gas in the line till you had mixed in the motor you can hook the grey wire going to the regulator to the yellow / grey on the regulator and that will run the tack and the oil injection but add oil to the tank to get home on. It the tack still doesn't work your regulator isn't charging the battery.

[willy]

ANY THOUGHTS ON TROUBLE SHOOTING THE MERC SKOOL ?

[phester]

thanks skool,appreciate the input...the OMCs may not be the fastest motors out there,but, they are true, reliable workhorses.

[reelapeelin]

Guys, I've said it before(probably more than everybody wants to hear)...early OMC VROs are waitin' to BLOW your motor...$hitcan that VRO and get a mixin' bottle...it ain't as painful as it sounds...lot less pain than LOCKIN' one up!!... :o :P :o :P...

Oh yeah...and Merc used a plastic drive gear of some sort on their auto-oiler... :(...I've personally seen THREE of those fail and COOK an otherwise perfectly good motor... ::)...

MIXMIXMIXMIX...................................... .... ;)...

[Skools Out]

Yeah i know of 5 or more Merc's that have lost oil gears. The problem is as long as the gear is turning any the alarm will not sound. say it's missing a few teeth and is not turning but off and on and not pumping the oil as needed it will not alarm you but will still mess up the power head just a slow painful Merc death. Would never suggest the oil injection on a Merc for sure but i don't use it on anything. If the alarm goes off on a Merc it's too late. The motor has already run reg gas in it.

[willy]

OK REELAPEELIN WILL TAKE A LOOK AT THE OIL SITUATION BUT RIGHT NOW I HAVE AN IMMEDIATE PROBLEM MENTIONED IN THE BEGINNING OF THE POST, ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR THIS MOTOR PROBLEM COULD USE SOME HELP ???

[Skools Out]

actually it could still be your oil injection it may have some missing teeth on the gear and not be oiling proper and it could be making your motor run hot which would cause the pistons to swell and get tight in the cylinders which would make it run sluggish *and would make the compression start to fall as to also getting the block hot gets the electronics on the motor hot too which could inturn hurt them. may want to try putting some oil in the gas and run it some with both oil injection and mixed if the problem goes away with the oil added to the gas you'll know your oil injection isn't working correctly.

[willy]

THANKS SKOOL THATS ONE THING TO LOOK AT. ACTUALLY THOUGH MOTOR RUNS LIKE A TOP WHEN I RUN IT A LONG TIME. A COUPLE OF RUNS I MAKE AT SPEED TO GET OUT ARE 20- 30 MINUTES. I THINK IF OILER WAS'NT WORKING I WOULD HAVE HURT THE MOTOR BAD ALREADY. IT HAD A STUMBLE WHEN STARTING OFF AND THEN WOULD RUN GOOD. AT SOME POINT LATER THAT STUMBLE WOULD TURN INTO BEING UNABLE TO ACCELERATE AT ALL

[Skools Out]

yeah it sounds just like a friends 1993 Merc 200 he had it was his oil injection gear he kept running it and he put around 30 hours oh it and then the compression got so low it wouldn't run anymore. If you run extra oil the oil will help raise your compression some too.

[willy]

other than the problems you guys seen with the oil injection it does'nt ring any other bells as far as what it might be ???

[reelapeelin]

willy...have the carbs been cleaned/rebuilt lately?...if not, sounds like it might be time...if you're not up to it, have a good outboard (Merc if you can find him) tech do it for ya...my old Evinrude went from runnin' like POOP to spinnin' like a TOP and w/the poor gas we're pumpin' thru these things these days it's easy to mess one up, specially if it's been sittin' for a while... ;)...

Break
Out
Another
Thousand
::)

[willy]

IS THAT WHAT IT WOULD COST TO HAVE CARBS DONE ??? ??? I DON'T THINK I CAN AFFORD THAT KNOW. MY FIRST BORN LEAVES FOR COLLEGE TOMMOROW, I'M SUCKING WIND FOR THE NEXT DECADE WITH THIS BILL. DOES IT MAKE SENSE THAT THE MOTOR WOULD RUN SO BEATIFUL ALL THE WAY UP AND DOWN THEN GO INTO GLICH MODE IF THE CARBS NEEDED SERVICE. I THOUGHT YOU WOULD FEEL THAT ALL THE TIME

[reelapeelin]

You can always get the manual and rebuild kits...not much $$ that way, plus you've learned something... ;) :D...I can't say for sure that mucked-up carbs are your problem, but if it's been a while or your boat DID sit for a year or so, it's sure a possibility... :)...have you CHECKED for water in the gas?...what year hull you pushin' w/that Blk Max?...if you haven't specificly checked for water, remove hose from motor, use the bulb and pump 1/2 cup or so into a CLEAR container, then tilt the container...if you see a liquid seperate to the bottom from the gas, that's water... ;)...

[willy]

OK RP I'LL CHECK FOR WATER, ITS A 92 MOTOR AND HULL ALL ORIGINAL. IF WATER WAS IN FUEL WOULD'NT IT BE RUNNING BAD ALL THE TIME ??? I'VE BEEN ON A GOOD NUMBER OF OUTBOARD BOATS AND THIS MOTOR SINGS WHEN THIS PROBLEM IS'NT HAPPENING, EVEN IDLES SMOOTH. JUST ALL OF A SUDDEN IT DECIDES OK I WON'T LET YOU GO ABOVE 1800 RPM AND IF YOU TRY I WILL STALL YOU. THEN I ALSO HAAVE THE MECHANIC SAYING THE FIRST TIME THAT I HAD NO SPARK ON TWO CYLINDERS ON SAME BANK ???

[Franco]

HEY WILLY, KNOW ANYBODY THAT RUNS A GAS STATION - THEY HAVE A PASTE THAT THE APPLY TO A MEASURING ROD THAT TURNS PURPLE IF THERE IS WATER IN THE TANK, YOU COULD WIPE SOME ON A YARDSTICK MAYBE AND DIP IT INTO THE TANK TO TELL, YOU'D PROBABLY HAVE TO PULL THE FUEL TANK SENDING UNIT TO GET ACCESS

[willy]

ok franco i never heard of paste , was going to try the hose disconnect route first and see if i could see it. ithe mechanic has boat now since i brought it right back to him when it screwed up again. i just don't know what he'll come up with this time thinking i'll let him check for spark in cylinders on his machine and then bring it home before i get another royal reaming for god knows what then i'll have to use what ideas i get from you guys to start eliminating

[willy]

I'LL TELL YA FROM WHAT IT FELT AN SOUNDED LIKE TO ME I THOUGHT IT WAS THE FUEL PUMP. BUT MECHANIC SAID IT TESTED OK. CAN A FUEL PUMP TEST OK AND THEN PULL SHENANIGANS LIKE THAT

[Skools Out]

not usually they work on pulse off the motor so they usually either work or don't. They have a diaphram in them that works off the motors speed and pulse.

[willy]

THANKS SCHOOL TALKED TO MERC TECH A LITTLE WHILE AGO HE JUST TODAY PULLED BOAT IN TO START CHECKING. PROBABLY WONT HEAR ANYTHING UNTIL LATE TOMMROW. I'M THINKING IT IS NOT ELECTRICAL UNLESS THE NEW PARTS HE PUT IN ARE BAD :o :o :o AND I GUESS THATS POSSIBLE, BUT HE SAID I HAD FULL VOLTAGE TO EACH CYLINDER AND MOTOR RAN GREAT IN THE SHOP. BUT WHEN I GOT ON WATER AND ENGINE WAS UNDER LOAD THATS WHEN IT STARTS

[phester]

willy, I have only owned one merc. in roughly25yrs. of boating. I was quick to learn, regardless of how much gas you push through that motor,change the h20 seperater often.If manual says every 60 days, make it 30. M ercury carbs are very tempermental. Do what RAP said, take off filter and pour gas in a clean glass jar.You could of had water in the carbs and they may be fouled. What you are describing sounds like what my merc did...had the carbs rblt.,...problem solved and I never let it happen again

[willy]

OK PHESTER IF WATER DID GET IN CARBS AND I ELIMINATE HOW IT GOT IN THERE , WOULD THEY FLUSH OUT THEN WHEN RUN OR IS THAT A FULL REBUILD FOR SOME REASON

[phester]

willy, I had water in my gas tank which then obviously went into the motor. It would start up fine, idle fine,but when you hit the gas it would just stumble and would'nt get over 1800 rpms. I'm no mechanic outside of routine maintainance so I bought it in.The carbs were fouled from the salt water so the mech. boiled them out real good and reblt. kit good as new. I later installed an inline filter in addition to h20 sep.

[willy]

PHESTER HOW DID SALT WATER GET IN TANK ??? I'M WONDERING IF THAT IS MY PROBLEM. WHEN YOU HAD THAT PROBLEM WAS IT FULL TIME OR DID THE MOTOR RUN GREAT AND THEN ALL OF SUDDEN DECIDE TO SCREW UP

[phester]

it ran poorly one day,the next time was even worse, I don't recall for sure , but I don't think I left the ramp that time. It idled o.k. but as soon as I dropped it in gear it would stall. As far as water in the tank it was a combo. of things, vent for fuel tank was close to the water line, splashes coming over the transom etc. In addition to the carb rebuild I did have the contaminated fuel taken out of the tank and added a gasoline water absorber made by Starbrite. I guess it worked.

[willy]

IT SOUNDS SIMILAR, I GUESS IT IS POSS TO HAVE SEVERAL THINGS BITE YOU IN THE A$$ AT THE SAME TIME. NO SPARK TWO CYLINDERS SAME SIDE AND ALSO WATER IN TANK ??? ??? THANKS PHESTER. IF ANY OF YOU OTHER GUYS HAVE IDEAS I WOULD APPRECIATE IT I AM GOING TO GIVE THE TECH TOMMOROW TO LOOK AT IT THEN I'M JUST GOING TO GO AND GET IT CAN'T AFFORD ANOTHER BIG HIT

[phester]

good luck willy

[reelapeelin]

Yeah, Willy...if it's water in the tank, no use payin' a tech to clear that up...dependin' on HOW MUCH water, the H2o BUSTER (Starbrite, OMC and others make it) is mostly isopropyl alcohol and will negate the water's bad effects on the motor...on the other ahd, if there's too much water, you'll have to get most out, then add the treatment...MOST importantly, find out hoe it got inthere to begin with and correct that... ;) :P...

[Blue_Runner]

Willy,

I'm surprised I haven't heard anybody mention this but, have you checked the spark plugs?

My Yamaha 150 was fouling spark plugs right before I repowered with a new motor. Sounds awful similar to your problem. If you take the plugs out you should be able to tell which ones are causing the problem.

Another thing, once a plug was fouled, it would sometimes un-foul (if that's a word). In other words, I could go along just fine, then the plug would foul and I couldn't get over say 2500 RPMs. Then it would kick back in and run normal for a while. Sometimes more than one plug would foul and I couldn't even get to 2000 RPM. It was easy to tell what was happening cause after installing new plugs it ran great. Plus after pulling the plugs you could tell which ones were fouled.

Seems like a simple thing to check if you haven't already.

Good luck!

[willy]

THANKS BR BUT IT LOOKS LIKE I HAVE A DIFFRENT PROBLEM I CALLED THE MECHANIC TODAY, HE SAYS HAD MOTOR ON TEST EQUIPMENT GOOD SPARK ALL ELECTRONICS RIGHT ON THE MONEY. HAD MOTOR RUNNING IN SHOP AND RUNNING GREAT, COMPRESSION IS GOOD ALL SIX. HE STARTED CHECKING CARBS AND FUEL. SAID HE PULLED WATER SEPERATOR FILTER AND IT HAD A WHITISH GEL LIKE CRAP THAT HE THINKS COMES FROM SEA WATER IN THE TANK SOMEHOW. I TOLD HIM TO LEAVE IT ALONE AT THIS POINT SINCE IT IS NOT CARBS OR ELECTRONIC I'M GOING TO PICK IT UP TOMMOROW AND BRING A PORTABLE TANK AND SPLASH BOAT AND SEE IF PROBLEM GOES AWAY. IF I AM GETTING SEA WATER IN TANK THRU VENT WHICH IS THE ONLY PLACE I REALLY CAN BE ON MY BOAT HOW DO I EMPTY THE 25 GALLONS I GOT IN THERE AND FLUSH OR CLEAN THAT TANK ??? ??? ??? I'VE NEVER DONE ANYTHING LIKE THAT BEFORE TECH SAYS CARBS ARE RUNNING GREAT DON'T NEED TO BE REBUILT HE SAID IF I CLEAN TANK AND LINES AND FILTERS ETC. TO PUT A PRODUCT HE HAS THERE FOR ME IN THE GAS AND IT WILL CLEAN THE CQARBS OF ANY OF THAT RESIDUE IF IT IS IN THERE

[reelapeelin]

Willy, you gotta remove the deck over your tank and remove the sending unit...that will leave an opening in the top of the tank you can work thru...just remember that IS gasoline you're smellin'...get RID of all in the tank...ain't gonna be fun or easy, but result will be SMOOTH runnin' V20...does your local dump have facility for used motor oil...if so, take small quantities at a time there to dump...PLEASE DON'T dump it on the ground or down a storm sewer... :P...good luck...it'll be several steps in the process of gettin' your tank cleaned out...don't POOF yourself!...

Bet your vent hose or maybe even the fill hose has opening somewhere...might as well replace both while open...don't forget to put back that GROUND WIRE from filler to tank...es mui importante!...

[Skools Out]

you can run gas line out the back of the boat down to the ground which would be lower than your tank and squeeze the primer bulb to get the gas flowing and let it drain on it's own. Then use compressed air and blow through the vent and that will force whats left out the pick up tube.

[reelapeelin]

Skool...how much compressed air can he use?...plus, I'm thinkin' w/the white stuff the tech mentioned, he may need access for cleanin'... ;)...

[Skools Out]

i've put 20 to 30 psi in my tanks and watch the crap fly out the line. If that crap is in the motor it's in the lines too. I'd change the fuel feed lines and the primer bulb. you know it's full of it too. Lacquer thinner will melt the crap in your tank as long as it's a metal tank. Then it will evaporate.

[reelapeelin]

Willy, ya gettin' all this?...it's good stuff... ;D...how many gallons you figure are in your tank that you gotta get out?... ???...

[willy]

Oh I'm getting it :o already planning to change lines from tank to motor, and buld, mechanic called again last night. he said he did a rebuild kit on the fuel pump and put new fuel line from pump to carbs. he also changed the fuel/water sep filter and ran a gas line to the filter from a seperate tank. He says it runs great compression has come back up since i did that chemical he gave me to spray into cylinders and got out deposits and fouling. Tell me about using thinner to clean the tank, first time anyone has mentioned that.

[willy]

I was going to see if there was one of the tank cleaning guys here central jersey. If it was'nt too expensive it might be a good way to go. Someone told me that the guys doing diesel fuel still do it and put you filtered fuel right back in. But gas fuel they don't want to do for some DEP reason

[steplift20]

hold on before you go washing out your tank this is what you have to do
1st check your vent is it clean the one thats on the out side
ok its clean next no water in the fuel water sepperater
make sure of that by taking it out and dumping it
now that thats good you know you have an electrical problem but what is it?
ok this is what you have to do
the next time this happens you are going to remove the cowling from the motor and with the motor running you will remove one sparkplug wire from one spark plug to see if you have spark you will hopefully see that one side is not having a spark and the other side is so now you know its the switch box that is the problem
also it could be the stator but you should bring it back the the repair center and have them check it again mercury garranteis it for 1 year and i had to replace mine 2 time in the same year so they do go bad
but i would say its an electrical problem for sure
do what i said and let me know because i had a simullar problem i would lose half my cylinders and the oil alarm would go off and it was the switch box but you could only check it when it was happening
good luck

[willy]

Ok step thanks for advise but I was out yesterday testing motor and all is well. With mine it appeared several things decided to take a dump all at once. First of all the mechanic drained and flushed my tanks 20 gallons for me for $80. There was a little water in it but not much. Appeared the filter caught most of what was there and was getting clogged. He found a pin hole in the fuel line from pump to card and another from oil pump to carb replaced all lines inside cowl. When I first had problem I did not have spark on two cylinders on same side. Also the stator was not putting out whatever it is he measures so it was replaced. The switch box involved was replaced with new from merc and installed. THE PROBLEM WAS THE BOX HAD RIGHT NUMBER BUT THE NUMBER ON THE LITTLE STICKER ON BACK OF SWITCH WAS DIFFRENT AND WOULD NOT RUN RIGHT. >:( >:(. aGAIN REPLACED AND THE CORRECT BOX INSTALLED, BUT GUESS WHAT >:( >:( THAT ONE WASN'T PUTTING OUT RIGHT VOLTAGE BRAND NEW. So another new box obtained and worked fine. I love quality control ::) also the trigger was replaced, not because it was'nt working but apparently mercs in the 90's had aproblem with the wire insulation decaying. Mine had some bare spots hidden and if you rubbed it a little it would roll off the wire :o The mechanic also rebuilt the fuel pump because it might have gotten some water in it and it was original 1992 everything else looked good and other than coils and one switch box i'm all new under there. He and I spent time checking fuel lines and vent lines and pump ball all looked good. He told me if the fuel lines were going bad from the inside there would be fine and small pieces of the decaying material in the filters and I had none.

[willy]

sorry to be long winded but it's been a frustrating couple of weeks with mr. mercury here. I still have to get a new plastic cover for my fuel tank vent. Aparently mine has like a redundant arrangement with a small cover and piece inside a larger cover. The mechanic said ther was'nt much water in the tank but possibly the guy I bought the boat from used some formula as a dry gas or something not intended for marine use and that could of gelled in tank and caused blockage problem. He said a lot of guys use regular automotive products like dry gas in their boats but they are not meant for that and cause problems. I got to listen he has been a merc tech for 30 years. So I will see, ran boat for half hour in horrible wind and slop yesterday to test and ran like a new motor, no hesitation any more and lauches that heavy 18.5 like a sling shot ;D ;D ;D ;D

[steplift20]

great i love to here that see you out side the inlet

[reelapeelin]

Don't apologize, willy...Man that's good stuff!!!...we all learn from each other's experience... ;)...glad you've got her goin'!!! ;D...