Replacing transom core only

[Mulv80]

Why can't I dig out the old transom core with a chainsaw, and then epoxy a new core in from the top of the transom? I have never seen anyone do it this way.

[macojoe]

There are people who have done it!! There is a member here who has done it!!
Just have to make sure you get all wood out!!! and dry it out first!!

http://www.transomrepair.com/

[Mulv80]

Maco, I've been to the Seacast site and I think that stuff is a little to pricey. I measured the amount I would need according to there formula and I would need 15 gallons. Seacast will cost around $600. I was looking to replace the core with 2 sheets of 3/4 inch marine plywood epoxied together then droped into the hollowed transom and epoxied.

[Franco]

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE SURE YOU GET FULL COVERAGE AND HOW ARE YOE GOING TO CLAMP IT. $600 IS CHEAP COMPARED TO YOUR OUTBOARD FALLING OFF!!!

[Mulv80]

I have pretty good access to the sides of the transom and figured if I can cut a good template and get a good dry fit I would be able to apply a thickend paste of epoxy to the core replacement and literally wedge it into position.

[Blue_Runner]

I'd be afraid of leaving voids. Plus, how you gonna get the right curve on that plywood ??? I'm afraid it sounds risky to me, but I don't do that for a living either so I really don't know enough to say whether its a good or bad idea. My hunch is that its not a great idea.

[macojoe]

Like BR says, it will not work!!

You need to have a solid I mean solid transom before you start bolting a 400 pound motor on it!!

If you have any voids they will crack the glass on that transom and thats not going to be good I promise you!

You will also have to get the wood to bend in toward the boat about 2 inches on each side!! How you going to do that??

$600?? Go to your local mariner and ask them how much and how long it will take to do your transom over? You will think that the $600 is such a deal that you will wonder why you ever question it!!

Do it right!! or you will be on the bottom of the ocean faster then you can yell HELP!!

[Stinky_Hooker]

I am in agreement with the others. I have rebuilt transoms on other boats in the past and that IS NOT an area to skimp on. :o

Do it right!!! ;D

[Blue_Runner]

5 years ago a local guy wanted $1500 to replace the transom on my 1968 17ft runabout....sooooo, I did what any cheapskate would do - I fabricated a loathsome "heavy metal" repair that carried me through the last 5 years. And, it cost me $1475 less that that guy quoted me ::)

Also, I just went through exactly what MJ said. I had voids in the transom on my '72 V20 due to faulty repair. It only took about 2 weeks to put a nice big crack in the outer skin. The wood core was fineMade me sick enough to spend $800 having someone cut the skin off, fill the voids, grind out the joints, and get it right. $600 is sounding better and better if you ask me! She's solid now!

But hey, don't be discouraged, that's what this board is for. We all keep each other from doing something stupid and wasting time and money ;D

If my wood had been no good, I'd have went with seacast without batting an eye.

[Skools Out]

Hey i just cut out the soft area in my transom with a chainsaw. But use an electric chainsaw and use it with NO bar lube or oil. They make a pentrating resin for that and then you pour it in with 1/2 holes drilled in the bottom. it will run out just pour it back in till it stops running out. The use a flexable epoxy in the voids. It is stong and won't crack but will still get hard as a rock. I've used it before it's great. I've seen it used in other boats as well and it is super strong. I bought mine from Parker Boat Company for right at $20 a gallon with hardner. That is what Parker makes there whole transom out of. I have a neighbor that works for them so i get it through him. It is a Poly Resin and is about the same thickness as Diesel fuel. Works great thought and you don't have to remove all the wood, just take out whats rotten or soft.

[Mulv80]

I like the idea of penetrating epoxy. My transom is really only rotted on the sides. The center is dry and appears to be solid. I will have to drill some inspection holes to see exactly how far the rot extends. I have always read that when you see rot there is usally more that you cant see. What kind of cost is involved with the penetrating epoxy?

[reelapeelin]

Skool...do you gotta contact site or other for Parker (ParkerBoats.com?)...Thanks!...

[Skools Out]

http://www.rotdoctor.com/glass/GLrotrepair.html#transom

that is one site to buy the pentration resin.

As for a contact i just always tell my neighbor what i need and he gets me the stuff so i can pick it up when i'm at the coast the next trip.

Hey can get Parker Gelcoat too it is sprayable too. I'm going to spray my Sea Ox with that once i get all the work done on it.

Repairing Rotted Cores

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Method 1: Removing Deck Skin and Replacing Core

How you repair rotted cores will depend on a lot of variables: How large the rotted area is, what it is, where it is, where the boat is and what kind of weather protection it has - and how patient you are.

There are two basic problems: 1) Accessibility to the deteriorated area and 2) drying things out. Epoxy will not effectively penetrate wet wood; the wood has to be reasonably dry. So, obviously, the best solution is always to pull the top off the deck and scoop out the bad wood and replace it. Easier said than done, right? On sailboats, especially, this can be a nightmare, with all the hardware scattered around. Still, it might in the end be worth it because things happen a lot faster this way. You treat the edges of the bad wood area with CPES™, and the new wood if it's ply, and then re-install. With balsa you must put it in place first because the backing compound is dissolved by the CPES™, or you can order the balsa core without the film backing. For bonding use our Layup & Laminating Resin™, but wait until the CPES™ on the treated wood has cured. In a perfect world you would replace with a plastic honeycomb instead of wood, but we've been told many times that plastic core material is hard to get in limited quantities. Below is a rough schematic for removing outer glass deck skin. There are various ways you can accomplish this task; this is just one of them.

Removing Outer Skin

Plan and mark your cut wisely. Plan a cut with future restoration in mind. Use straight lines. Consider placement of non skid overlays and deck fittings.

Set cut depth to glass thickness only.

It may be necessary to work skin free from core with the edge of a putty knife; apply heat to loosen further if needed.

Try to remove the skin intact. It can be reapplied over the new core.

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Removing Inner Skin

On some boats, especially the smaller ones, it is sometimes possible to get at the deck core from inside. Removing the inner skin is the preferable way of gaining access to the damaged core because it leaves the exterior surfaces unmarked. The schematic (right) shows steps for inner skin removal. Once again, old remaining wood and new wood core material should be CPES™ treated and bonded with our Layup & Laminating Resin™.

TIPS FOR REMOVING THE INNER SKIN
Outline the damaged area with straight lines and using a paper pattern transfer this outline to the inner skin. Line up exactly by measuring from permanent deck fittings or bolts.


Drill an exploratory hole to determine how far the underside of the outer skin is from the surface of the inner skin. Fit a circular saw with a carbide-tipped plywood bit and set the cutting depth to slightly less to allow for some variation in this dimension. Cut around the outline.


Finish the cut through the core with a razor knife. If the top skin bond is completely broken, the cutout will drop out. If not, find a loose corner and pry down, then use a sharpened flexible putty knife as a chisel to free the rest of the core. Heat applied to the outer skin may help.


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Replacing the Core


Chisel the damaged core from the inner skin or use a utility knife (for balsa or foam), or a saw (for plywood). Carefully and thoroughly clear the inner skin of any old core material.


Make a paper pattern of the empty section to cut new material.


NOTE: it is important to use core material the same as the original, both in type and thickness. The exception to this would be the plastic honeycomb core material--which can be mixed with other types. It should be the same thickness, however.


Dry-fit the core into the cavity, trimming as necessary.


Wet out the surface of the old core and skin where the new core will bond with CPES™. Allow 1-2 days for CPES™ carrier solvents to evaporate.


Wet out all bonding surfaces, both new and old with Layup & Laminating Epoxy Resin™ thickened with talcum powder or colloidal silica to the consistency of mayonnaise, and put new core in place. Brace or weight the core in position, and allow to it to cure.


Wet the old and new core with CPES™ and allow 1-2 days to cure.





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Replacing the Deck
How you replace the outer deck skin will depend on how large the area is and how it relates to the hull structure. Ordinarily the skin section can be placed back over the new core with L&L Resin bonding and the cut edges later filled with our Epoxy Filler and then sanded smooth. However, if you are concerned that this will not present the same strong structure as it was originally, we recommend you use the steps shown below to restore the deck. Use only epoxy resins for re-bonding, and we can suggest our Layup Laminating Resin™ as being an excellent choice. It has a long pot life, is a simple 1:1 mix, and remains slightly flexible after curing. After major repairs you may elect to cover the deck with one of the non-skid flexible coverings. It will hide all your cut and scratch marks.

(1) Fit outer skin over new core.

(2) Bond with thickened L L Epoxy Resin. The core should be solidly bedded in the thickened epoxy, and epoxy should squeeze out the cut line all around the new section.

Cure thoroughly (at least 24 hours), compressed with weights. (Place polyethylene plastic sheeting between weights and skin).

3. After resin mix has cured, sand/bevel seam areas into a shallow v-shaped depression with the original cut line in the deepest part of the 'v'.

4. Cut fiberglass cloth into narrow strips (or use fiberglass tape) and laminate them into the depression with straight L L Epoxy Resin. Each strip should be about 1 inch wider than the previous one.

Finally, sand the cured surface, then paint with a water-barrier coating or cover with non-skid flexible covering.


Repairing Rotted Cores
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Method 2: Treating Core Without Removing Fiberglass Skin

Many of you will elect to repair the core without removing the deck skin. On smaller areas especially this will be the case. Sometimes, though, the glass skin is just too difficult to remove, or, it's an old boat and you just don't want to expend the time and effort. It's possible in these cases to perforate the outer skin with drilled holes, dry the area underneath, and then inject with Clear Penetrating Epoxy Sealer™ (CPES), Layup and Laminating Epoxy Resin™, and then close the holes with Fill-It™ Epoxy Filler.

The key here is drying the core material. Epoxy will not displace water in and around wood cells. Although CPES™ will partially displace light moisture, in almost all instances it will be necessary to use some sort of drying method. It can take awhile. Ideally, this is a project that can be started in the winter when boating is less frequent. The deck can be opened, covered, and then left to dry out over a few month's time. If slow drying is not possible, there are ways to speed up the process. Here's the procedure:

• Define the deteriorated area. We suggest first tapping it out and then going back with a drill to verify. You want to find the edges up to the good wood and mark the area.

• Once defined, drill the area with multiple holes* no further than 5" apart. The more you drill the quicker the drying. Be careful not to drill through inner skin.

NOTE: We use drilled holes, but one of our web readers (thank you, Jeffrey Manosh) suggests slits cut with a circular saw across the deck, that is, side to side--beam to beam, which would allow more air through, easier application of the CPES™ and L & L™ Resin and better ventilation for cure time. The slits need not be all the way across and can be staggered. There would be enough deck left to supply good lateral support (most fore and aft support on boats is provided by the hull), and of course, the slits would be filled in with Fill-It™ Epoxy Filler when treatment of the core is completed. Another person, using Jeffrey's slit method, discovered that blue painter's tape works well as a temporary dam to keep the CPES in the slits while it absorbed into the core. He reports that the CPES did NOT dissolve the adhesive of the tape, as he thought it might. Thanks for another good suggestion.


• Drying methods: a shop vac can help remove bulk water, flushing the cavity with acetone* will help carry away moisture, blown heat from a hair dryer or heat gun helps, and finally, compressed air pumped in through holes is especially effective. Nothing dries wood as quickly as moving air.

*NOTE: ACETONE IS FLAMMABLE. Use caution if using both acetone and heat.


• When core seems dry enough, flood the holes with CPES™. Our syringe and needles can be useful here. After the application of the CPES™, wait at least a week. You need to allow time for the carrier solvents to evaporate. Due to its highly fluid consistency, the CPES™ is going to reach wood that a thick epoxy resin cannot. It adds significant protection to the core.

• Next, flood the holes with the Layup and Laminating Epoxy Resin (a turkey baster works very well here) or use a slurry mix of the L&L Resin and sawdust if there is a large hollow area in the core material. Our reusable caulking tubes work well with the slurry mix. The L&L Resin is very slow-setting and has time to settle into small spaces. It also will always retain a slight degree of flexibility. It will never shatter. The L&L Resin will cure hard in 24 hours, and will cure at temperatures as low as 28 degrees F.

• Compress the area with weights immediately after application of the L&L Resin. You can use a sheet of polyethylene plastic under the weights. It will peel away without adhering to the L&L Resin.

• Close surface holes with Fill-It™ Epoxy Filler. Paint or cover with flexible decking.

[reelapeelin]

Wow...I'm bookmarkin' that post!!... ;D...

[phester]

skools IS the man on repairs

[Blue_Runner]

2nd that ;D

He needs to go into boat building and reparation full time.

[reelapeelin]

Hey Franco...I think we found our man when Aunt Flotto hits town...if we can afford him... ;) ;D...

[phester]

no doubt

[Franco]

I agree, Skools the man for building, I'll take the wiring stuff if that don't step on his toes - what else we need and who's gonna do it?

[Skools Out]

lol thanks guys I love working on them old boats. Old boats are like ex's they keep coming back for service lol.

Sure take the electrical i do enough of that at work. I don't Low-voltage wiring and installation for the state of NC in my county. Wiring gets old some times lol.

[reelapeelin]

OK..we got the glass work and electrical covered like a fat-boy onna BB...I'll be in charge of personel...which, of course, will require personal interviews w/all female applicants... ;D...position will definately require (oh the pain) limited travel to S. Beach for "recruiting"... 8)...

[Franco]

Hey Oz, my youngest kid is transferring to college in Ft Lauderdale, last weekend we were down there looking for apartments for hime, Included a short stint in South Beach - you wouldn't believe it!!!!

[reelapeelin]

Been there ...and yeah, I would!! Talk about "the land of OPPORTUNITY!!!"... ;D...which is why I felt S Beach would OPTIMIZE my time as VP of Human Relations for Norton Snaggers, Inc... 8)...