West System

[msbhammer]

Well, I'm hearing this weekend will be pretty warm. So I decided to do the repairs myself. Went to West Marine and they said I should use West System for my gouges in the hull. Hopefully this will do the trick. Anybody ever play with this stuff. I bought the pumps as well so it should be pretty idiot proof, so I dont screw it up.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f153/msbhammer/DSC01709.jpg

[shicks007]

Hammer,

I used West System to do the repairs on my boat. However I used the 410 microlite. I think that using the 406 probably is a better way to go on the bottom(harder). With that said........That Cabosil filler is going to be a Mother to sand, watch and make sure you don't end up cutting down the surrounding gelcoat while trying to knock down the repair.

Your going to have to paint this stuff too. I hate to see you paint the bottom of that boat, but stick with your plan. Oh Yeah, your going to love the pumps!

Good luck,
Scott

[Geekie1]

Hammer,

The biggest problem with using epoxy is metering the correct proportions of resin and hardener, insufficient mixing and ambient air temperature. The pumps are OK, however you can't always count on them to meter the resin and hardener in exactly the correct proportions. Sometimes they burp because of an air bubble or pump defect causing a mismix. I use two 8 oz transparent plastic cups one inside the other to pump into. The outer cup I mark the correct levels of resin and hardener proportions, (2 parts or pumps of resin to 1 part or pump of hardener, or 3 parts or pumps of resin to 1 part or pump of hardener,) or whatever proportions the brand of epoxy calls for with a "Sharpie" pen. I mix small batches of resin & hardener in the inner cup using the marks on the outer cup to measure to. I use the pumps but if they deliver the wrong amounts, the mistake is immediately apparent. It doesn't happen often, but when it does I throw away the bad batches and don't try to correct by guessing.

Sufficient mixing of the resin and hardener should take about 2 minutes with a wooden stirrer and you should scrape down the mixture on the inside of the cup while mixing. The resin mixture will get hot in the cup. Smaller batches will get less hot than big batches. If you use a large styrofoam cup to mix, the cup will probably melt so use smaller clear plastic cups, not styrofoam. If it gets too hot, pour the mixture into a flat shallow plastic pan to slow down the curing. If it is really a hot day, (85 degrees and up) the mixture will probably get very hot. If the air temperature is below 70 degrees, the epoxy will be slower in kicking. When the epoxy has been mixed sufficiently, you can then mix in the cabosil, microballoons, or even sawdust to thicken the epoxy to about the consistency of creamy peanut butter. I throw away the inner mixing cup with each batch because if you mix a new batch in the previous cup the proportions will be off because of residual mix left behind. You may end up with epoxy that takes weeks to harden or hardens too quickly which will weaken the cured epoxy. The flat plastic pan I use is a smaller paint roller pan plastic insert. When the epoxy hardens the pan should be flexible enough to pop out the cured epoxy so you can use it again.

I hope this helps!!

Ed G.

[msbhammer]

Thanks for the scoop, you both sound like you know what your doing. So what time will you guys show up on Saturday to knock this job out !! : ) ;D
Plan on taping off the areas that need repair.
But once repaired, simply add some primer and paint touch up ??
Thinking of holding off on sanding the entire hull down.
Been told to dewax, sand, the put on a coat of interlux 200E wich is fine, but once that is done, what goes on next ?? there must be some sort of hull paint that can go on other then antifoul paint...right ?? ??? ??? ???

[Geekie1]

Hammer,

Some epoxy products will leave a slimey film on the surface when cured. The film is called "amine blush". Amine blush will need to be removed with detergent and water before applying additional epoxy, sanding or primer application. I'm not sure if West epoxy has this problem because I haven't used West in years. In recent years I have used Raka, US Composites, and I know that Raka epoxy does not get amine blush. Raka epoxy is about half the price of West per gallon. US Composites is even about 15 percent cheaper than Raka but it does blush. The fact that the blush comes off easily with soap and water makes using the cheaper epoxy a real buy. I clean the cured epoxy surface with soap and water no matter what epoxy I use.

Ed G.

[msbhammer]

Geek:
Yes, West System does "blush". Thanks for the heads up on making sure to wash with soap and water before second coating and priming.
Good news also is that AIRSLOT dropped off my trailer today that i bought from him and he looked at my boat. Other then the gouges that need filling, all the other "hundred little dings simply need gellcoat repair, no structual damage, just poor care from one of the last owners.

[Airslot]

Yeah guys, the intervention was successful. Hell, his boat looks better than mine minus a few dings and it's a year older. Dang shame that it has a few minor gouges in it cause the gel's really clean on that boat.

Airslot

[msbhammer]

Selling two gallons of antifoul paint since I was saved by Airslot ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Skools Out]

what brand and color. cost too?

[msbhammer]

Sorry School,
Never actually bought it, but almost made it to the counter with a gallon ;D ;D

[reelapeelin]

Good work Air...sounds like ya brought Hammer around...didja have to get tuff w/him...slap him around a little??.. ;) ;D ;D...

[msbhammer]

Airslot sicked his ankle biting dog on me until I promised not to paint the botom.
Sanded down the gouges today in the hull. Weather was great. Didnt add the West System, but I wanted to.
Had a guy looking at it today when I was sanding and he said I should add in a peice of cloth for extra strenght
along the keel strike. So Sunday I'll be wetting cloth and slapping her on hopefuuly.

[reelapeelin]

Why did he think your keel needed to be strengthened...what lead him to believe that??...did he measure thickness of existing? Layin' new glass along the bottom of your boat is gonna take a lot of the hydro-dynamics out of it... ;) :D...lookin' at your pics, it doesn't need anything... 8)as is...

[macojoe]

I have a buddys whaler here and it was at a fire, the bow has all the gel coat lifted like chiped paint, I am going to have to grind it all down and then fill, sand and paint.
I will have pics in a week or so and show you what I am up against. Then I will have to figure out what is the best way to attack it?

[msbhammer]

Reel,
the hull and west system went well today. However I did take back the 406 west system powder for 407 instead for fairing. The hull didnt need any cloth, but the was one deep stop on the keel at the stern, maybe 3/16 deep. So I added in some cloth. I did all the work and my fiberglass guy took there and took me through the steps. So I know how to sand it down, prep it, and use west system. But the hard part is Monday when I begin to sand it, blending it in with the rest of the hull.
So I;ll be all day doing that, maybe reapplying a coat to fill any dings or whatever. Pctures to follow.

[reelapeelin]

Hammer...sounds great...you gonna have a super-slick hull when done ;)...

[msbhammer]

Damm, forgot to take the camera. Well, didnt get much done today, the guy next to my boat was painting, so I held off on sanding until 5pm. Managed to get some done. Tuesday I hope to tidy up the appearance of teh sanding job, then decide on what primer to use. Interlux 2000E I am guessing.

Mind Fart ......Once sanded and primed, Am I able to put gelcoat over it ???? or just use touch up paint and leave it alone ??

[shicks007]

Hammer, The repair work on your hull goes like this... gelcoat or paint.


Although some people say you can gelcoat over West System, the official ord is, you cant. I'm sure you can't over primer either. Gelcoat is a polyester based product and needs to stick with polyester substrates like your fiberglass hull, or repairs with polyeter resin.

West System as you know is an epoxy. Prime it and paint it. If you are going to leave it in the water at all, you might need to barrier coat those touched up spots to keep from blistering, I'm not sure about that, maybe someone else can chime in on that question.

I'm telling you guys, I really recomend the Devoe paints, very resonable.

[Geekie1]

Hammer,

Polyester resin is most used in boat hulls due to cost and epoxy is a much tougher and much more expensive polymer. It is not generally used for boat hulls for cost reasons. The only problem with epoxy other than cost is that UV rays cause it to deteriorate if not coated with paint gel coat or some other UV blocking coating.

I have not tried using gel coat over epoxy, but I don't see why if the epoxy is properly cured, cleaned, sanded and primed that gel coat wouldn't adhere to the epoxy. I would go for polyurethane paint because I think paint is much easier to match in color and definitely easier to apply. Most gel coat that I have seen is sprayed into the boat mold and then covered with resin and glass and will not cure properly in open air. I think that you would have to cover the gel coat with non-stick plastic to keep out the air in order to cure. Maybe there is a gel coat that cures in open air. I haven't heard of it. Just my $.02!!

Ed G.

[msbhammer]

Thanks guys. I was speaking to a guy at the boat yard yesturday and he was saying to paint the bottom with a
"Hard bottom paint" ??
Not a antifoul paint. Ok, off to the boat yard for a few pictures. So I can post them : )

[msbhammer]

What happened to all the warm weather. Hear that it might snow on Friday. That Sucks !!