TEAK QUESTIONS/INPUT

[phester]

I have started the unholy task of redoing all the teak. Doesn't look like there is a lot of it while its all mounted, but , when its all disassembled and spread out on the workbench there is a decent amount. I have sanded everything down to "new" wood and it's very smooth. Every piece is done,just want to hit it one more time w/ 320 grit paper. I am a little undecided on how to finish the job....do I stain and varnish/poly or should I just oil it. I like the look of newly stained wood w/ a satin poly finish but its a little more upkeep to keep it looking nice.....with the oil I "THINK" you can just reapply as needed [sounds easier to me] Any input from the fellas who have done either method,would like to hear what you have to say. thanks

[msbhammer]

Phester,
I to will need to redue all my wood work as well this spring. Never messed with teak myself, but have sanded and stained from time to time. I myself prefer to do it once and be done with it. I plan or sanding, staining and putting on a clear coat that will hopefully that for awhile before having to ever do it again.

[phatdaddy]

phester/hammer, I used a product called Cetol Marine by Sikkens. It is not a varnish, but more like a clear coat. I usually put on 3 coats of the marine and then 3 coats of the gloss. It takes a day to dry between coats. I also have a small whaler with mahogany seats and console that I use it on. It holds up very well. I can usually go 4 or 5 years between applications. I used to varnish, but that usually involved yearly touch ups. I know woods a pain,but I like the look of it on a boat. Boaters World sells product called Armada (I think) that is similar at half the price of Cetol.

[phester]

phat-daddy, thanks for the reply. The TinMan mentioned the Cetol to me just today,though he himself has never used it. You have stated that you put on 3 coats of the "marine" and then 3 coats of the "gloss", what is the "marine" material and I'm going to guess the gloss is more like a clear coat? I was tossin around the idea of doing it all w/ starboard, it is mostly maintenance free ,but the nice dark or medium woods give the boat so much more character and a classic look.

[Mac_Attack]

I used the Sikkens products last year. *Works great! *Look at Fritz's boat, he used the same product. *Bill Mc ;D

http://westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearch?keyword=cetol&advanced=YES&searchDeptId =4

[phatdaddy]

I guess the marine is a type of stain or penetrating oil that soaks into the wood, The gloss is a protecting coat. I think you can just use the marine for interior applications, but wood exposed to the elements would do better with the gloss. One thing I have noticed is the the finish still feels soft for about 2 weeks, it is dry and not tacky, but you can still dig your thumbnail into the clearcoat. Then it will get hard and resist gouging. I was told you could buy a similar product at a floor refinishing store, but you have to buy gallons. One thing I did learn , if you have any left over, clean the top of the can real good, tap the lid on with a rubber mallet, and store upside down. I keep some for about 3 years and it was still good. Every now and then West will have it on sale for $20 a quart.

[phester]

thanks Phat and MAC for the intel. I was on The Hull Truth this AM, lotsa good info there as well but of course everybody has their own opinion. Most people gave the Cetol the thumbs up as far as the final result and easy to work with. In the same breath you got a guy that swears the best thing to use is tranny fluid [????] Bottom line is that the prep work is the key. Will probably finish the prep today and just wait till next weekend to finish it off. COLD/WINDY here in N.Y., upper 20s w/ WNW 15-30MPH......C'mon spring!!!!!

[msbhammer]

Cold and windy as well in Delaware. High winds and in the 20's. >:(

[CapnBill]

Annapolis (U.S. Naval Academy)
Last Update on Feb 26, 12:54 pm EST
Partly Cloudy
33°F (1°C)
Humidity: 36 %
Wind Speed: NW 18 G 26 MPH
Barometer: 30.23" (1023.7 mb)
Dewpoint: 9°F (-13°C)
Wind Chill: 22°F (-6°C)
Visibility: 10.00 mi.

See www.weather.gov -click on map ofyour local

AS for Teak ... I thought you would never ask!!!

The Special Top- Secret Teak Mix !!!

1/3 Teak Oil - I use Amazon Teaka
1/3 Polyurathne (outdoors)
1/3 Mineral Spirits
Apply (wash it on) with foam brush
at least 3 - 5 applications!!!

REMOVE TEAK FROM BOAT
Wash and clean teak with teak cleaner - your choice
Sand teak as needed - amount of snading is your choice

APPLY AT LEAST 3 - 5 COATS OF TOP-SECRET TEAK MIX and be sure allow am ple dry time between coats - at least several days between coats.
You may want to light sand it with 320 grit after ward - but as for me - after 5 coats - heck - just put it on the boat and be done with it

Put teak on boat - let friend and neighbors admire!
but keep the top-secret teak mix a secret among us V-20ers !

- Bill C

[macojoe]

Great Cbill!! I have a secert mix also!!

1 remove all wood from boat
2 trace and make new copys from Starboard
3 reinstall all pieces
4 trash the wood or sell to someone
5 NEVER worry about it ever again!! ;D

[CapnBill]

Hey Mr. Starboard.....

Do you know of any place in mid-atlantic area - near MD....
that sells cut pieces of your beloved starboard (or knigboard - or kingboard lite)

- C-Bill

[phester]

Cbill, your teak cocktail sounds like a good mix,courious though, what could one expect in terms of longevity....I don't want this to be a yearly thing. Most guys using this Cetol material are boasting 4-5 years before having to do it again. Probably wouldn't get 4-5 yrs. shriveling up in that Fla. sun w/ Capt. Norton Franco, here in the N.E. I could deal with getting 4/5 seasons out of it. As for the starboard, my teak wasn't in bad shape, just dry and very dull, a good deal of sanding bought it back almost new. The classic lines of a v20 deserves the classic look of teak [wood] accents, to each his own

[macojoe]

Cut i have no idea but you can call these guys?

Harbor Sales

Sudlersville
800-345-1712
Primary Contact:

------------------------------------------

Piedmont Plastics

Rockville
800-638-6651
Primary Contact:

------------------------------------------

you can call here they may be able to tell you were to get Seaboard in your area

http://www.rmplastic.com/index.htm

;D ;)

[CapnBill]

Phester

The cocktail has the looks - but is not that long on lovenity - maybe a season ofr two. What is does have is easy of pllication - it is so thin it just soaks into the teak - and brushes on like water. With multiple coats the polyurathane builds up to a good thickness. And yes I agree - dark teak on a nice white white V-20 is a very pretty sight! - but there are also places for the starboard ...

Mac -

Thanks for the links - I will call.
I am replacing the hatch doors both forward over the anchor locker, and aft in ront of the engine well - and only need two 1/2inch x 12.75 x 23 pieces of starboard.

Thanks
- Bill C

[macojoe]

I bought the piece for my dash at a local mariner that builds and repairs boats.
I got a 1/4 X 20 X 12 for $10 out of ther scrap pile.

Might want to check in your area also??

[phatdaddy]

It was pretty bad here ,also, Highs in the md 60's with 20 kt nw winds. *I took the boat out for the first time in 4 weeks, longest I haven't ran in years. *I took some pics of the teak and the dive platform for hammer, but can't get my comp to download the dig camera. *Vic also made me a new dash that I put Cetol on, looks great. *Starboard is great and when the teak is damaged or gone , thats what I replace with.
I tried th automatic trans fluid on a previous boat, what a mess, teak looked black and everytime it got wet or rained on it smelled like a burnt tranny.

[msbhammer]

Looking for some scrap starboard myself. 19x12 x 3/4.
Seen some on E-Bay, but only in black, need white.

[reelapeelin]

Quotes you'll never hear; "Geez Guys...can't go fishin' w/ya this weekend...gotta stay home and refinish my Starboard''....

or: What's the best way to finish Starboard for the longest-lasting shine''...

or: ''Thinkin' about buyin' this great lookin' V20, but the Starboard is gonna be a real pain to re-do...should I remove it first?"... ;) ;D ;D ;D...

To the guys who really DO like teak and all the work, I'm like you; it looks GREAT when done and I admire you for doin' it...but I don't wanna do it :) :)...

[shicks007]

If you do decide to go with the teak, the Cetol works great. I used the Cetol light, 3 coats. It seems to be holding up great so far.

[phester]

shicks, thanks for the input, how long is so far?

[Geekie1]

I am in the process of re-doing the teak on my V20. I am using Cetol Light and the teak looks great. I have used Cetol on the teak on other boats I have owned, and I have also used teak oil and other products. IMHO, there is no better, longer lasting finish than Cetol. The Cetol light gives a natural looking satin finish which looks like oiled teak but doesn't darken the wood too much. It is kind of expensive, but it lasts at least 3-4 years and then needs to be scuffed up with a plastic 3M pad and given a new coat. The regular Cetol Marine darkens the teak in my opinion. I don't work for Sikkens Cetol and have no association with people who sell their products.

[phester]

well I had my hands on the Cetol and next to it [among a few other brands] was the Armada. Was told by two reps. at two different stores that Cetol and Armada were at one time or another the same company. Both guys said the same thing....Cetol is an excellent product, but it is a two stage process....three coats of "pigment" and then three coats of "sealant", each can about 27.00. The Armada is, in essence, the same thing in one can, around 28.00. Both need about 24hrs. between coats. So I thought 1/2 the time,1/2 the labor and1/2 the cost I was sold on the Armada. Hoping I made the right move I started working on it as soon as I got home. Wiped all teak down w/ acetone, last sanding w/400 grit and started laying it on. So far it looks great, a shade darker than anticipated but as it dries ,it's getting a little lighter. The other advantage to the Armada is that you can keep laying it on 3,4,5 years later without having to sand it down again.I hope I get alot of "truth in advertising"

[phatdaddy]

Phester, The last timeI redid the Whaler I used the Armada(for the same reasons you listed). It seems to be working fine.
Geekie1, I didn't know that about the 3m pad. I have been taking the teak down to bare wood and starting over, I'll try the scotch pad method

[phester]

yeah phat, geek is right, you'll need to just rough it up w/ a 3m and reapply when needed

[shicks007]

Phester,

Not that I'm an expert at this, but this is what I found out when I researched this last year. It might be a two step process only if you want a real high gloss. You have to have the "1st" step on under it because thats where all the UV inhibitors are. I'm pretty sure this was confirmed from the side of the can. If I get a chance I'll get the can and check it out. BTW I got a can of it on sale at West Marine for $17.99. I only went with the one step Cetol Light Satin. It's been on my deck box covers for maybe 9 months.

I wouldn't waste my time and money on the oil, I did. I bet the nice looking finish didn't last a month.

Scott

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/8up/seats.jpg

[phester]

shicks , your boat looks great, did a nice job on her. It was suggested to me NOT to use the Armada on floor decks or swim platforms because the Armada already has the "poly" built into it, becomes a slip hazard, the Cetol alone,the can you would use in step #1,is better for foot traffic areas. BTW I went w/ the satin rather than the glossier look.

[reelapeelin]

Shicks, you may have just uncovered the original reason I didn't leave teak in my boat...OILING...THAT'S what I kept hearin' was such a PAIN and had to be done so often ::)...not that I'm gonna start jerkin' all the ''tupperware'' outta mine, but I really do like the look teak gives a boat and secretly admire you guys who take the time to carry on a great boatin' tradition ;) 8)...

[Geekie1]

The Cetol Marine Light I used was a one part application, didn't need to buy a different second can. The recommended number of coats on the teak is determined by the teak being new wood or old weathered teak. Naturally, my teak was very old weathered teak which took some teak cleaner, and then sanding with a ROS. The bilge/battery door by the OB engine well had a teak plywood center panel that had delaminated. I found a boat lumber place in Marathon FL. that had new teak marine plywood that you could buy by the square ft. Believe me, you dont want to buy a 4x8 sheet of teak marine plywood. Buying by the square foot is expensive enough!!! It's almost as expensive as starboard!!!

The teak plywood website is:

www.buckwoodcraft.com

[sfprovyn]

I used Cetol on my old albemarle about 3 years ago and other than scrapes from dropped sinkers etc, it still looks great and it sits out all the time without a cover. Frank

[phester]

well, it's all done and I must say it came out very nice. Got 4 coats on ,in a satin finish. I'll need to redo or replace the gunnel rod holders, they are sort beat up and now they'll look even worse against the new teak. Hopefully it will be a long time before I need to do that again, not hard, just tedious.

[Mulv80]

The previous owner of my V20 painted all the teak brown. It doesnt look bad and after reading this post I don't know if I want to embark on trying to strip and sand all those trim pieces. I got to say though, Shicks boat looks awesome with those teak deck covers.

[phester]

yeah, my teak was dry and "grainy"I didn't have to sand thru any old finish but I had to remove a good amount of old wood to get down into fresh lumber.

[phatdaddy]

phester, glad it came out ok. While I had my rod boxes out and the teak out, I painted them with a bright white roll on paint. I also added a strip of fiberglass tape to the edges because they were cracking. I backed up the wall of the cap behind the opening so whe you reattach the boxes, you have more wall to sink the screws into.

[phester]

phat, if I don't get new boxes ,I will do the same.....I like that additional wood backing idea. what kind of paint /primer did you use?

[shicks007]

I should have mentioned this before, but I didn't think about it. One thing that will save ALOT of sanding is to pressure wash your teak before you start to sand. It's very difficult to get that old ashy color off, alot of sandiing. I you pressure wash it, that color goes right away. Let it dry for awhile and lightly sand it.

Sorry I'm so behind the ball with that one

Scott

[phatdaddy]

It was just white oil based enamel. I painted my deck with Glidden porch paint and that stuff held up really well. The area under my pedastal seats got soft and I had to replace from the cabin back to the fishbox. I used West epoxy and this is why I have to paint the deck. I used the Brightside enamel (Interlux $30 @ qt.) and it last one season. I used the porch paint($15 gal.) and it last 4 seasons. I saw in an earlier post Skool used some garage floor paint and had good results.

[Skools Out]

yeah it's lasted 4 seasons no wear anywhere

[phester]

Finished off some of remaining teak with Ipe instead. There was a strip across the top of the splashwell, above the door to access the batteries, and instead of going straight across like original, I went accross an mitered returns to cap the whole well. On the gunnels, about midships are the two pieces to step on while boarding, originals were in poor shape,didn't want to try and salvage them, just to cracked,brittle and thin. Lastly I needed to stand off the gunnel mounts for the Attwood multi-positional rod holders. I wish the all the brightwork on the boat was all this Ipe wood.This material is like iron,tough to sand and hard on your tools. The rich color and beautiful grain is,in my opinion, nicer than teak. Forgot to mention it weighs a ton, that's probably why it's so tough. Almost ready to go back together, flounder season opens in another two weeks or so

[phatdaddy]

This winter, i decided to do a major re-wire project and replace the dash. vic built me a one out of Ipe and you are right, it looks great. It is a little darker than teak and I fnished it with Armada instead of Cetol. How did your rod boxes come out?

[shicks007]

Iv'e never heard of Ipe wood. Some good stuff Huh. I refinished my gunrack style rod holders, they were not teak. I wonder if it is this Ipe stuff. The color was alot darker with a little red tint. I assumed it was mahogany.

[Geekie1]

Shicks,

If the wood is ipe, you would know it. Another name for it is ironwood, but a better name would be leadwood. It is a dark red and has attractive grain. It is relatively indestructable. Won't burn, float, or rot. I am now thinking of making a bow pulpit out of ipe and have some under seat storage made of MDO plywood with ipe trim on the drawing board. Probably won't be this season because of a leaky 60 gallon fuel tank and some critical regular engine maintenance that I put off last year.

Ed G.

[Franco]

I believe they used to make propellor shaft bearing for submarines out of Ipe (ironwood), it self lubricates in saltwater, machines like steel and is harder than woodpecker lips. Also used it to make wooden gears out of it for sidewheel paddle steamships.

[phester]

This winter, i decided to do a major re-wire project and replace the dash. *vic built me a one out of Ipe and you are right, it looks great. *It is a little darker than teak and I finished it with Armada instead of Cetol. *How did your rod boxes come out?
Phat, thanks for asking, the rod boxes came out pretty damn good I gotta say. I wasn't expecting any miracles but the fiberglass repair was relatively easy because they were just cracked,what made it look good was the paint. It was the Interlux polyurethane. Pricey, 30.00 for a quart, but it brushed on like glass. I tinted the white down[shoulda gone w/the off-white instead] with a black tint, so now the color is a snow white or very very light grey. It is a compromise between the grey floor and the already off white interior. Also redid the fire extinguisher box as well. I have taken pictures, they're in the camera just gotta get em over to the computer. Soon....?

[phatdaddy]

Phester, good job on the rod boxes. They actually clean up pretty good and the redone teak sets them off well.

Geek, I'd like to see your ideas. I've tried to come up with under seat storage, but I still want to have the pedistal sets that swivel. If I cut the pipe as close as I can and mount it on top of a cabinet, I will net only about 10" of storage. Seems like alot of trouble with not much gain.

[Geekie1]

Wow phat!!! Are we on the same wave length or what!!! I am looking for another Todd pedestal seat for the port side. I now have a low back to back seat on the port side where I would like to have my new storage box/pedestal seat. I want to cut down the pedestal to mount on top of my yet to be designed storage box. If that works, I will do the same on the starboard (helm) side. If, if, if, if. Unfortunately, I have some very necessary maintenance items to get done and after that some stripers to catch. Hopefully the stripers will be spring run, not fall run!!!

Geek

[Geekie1]

Phat, I considered the low (10"/12") clearance problem and have not come up with a final solution. I am considering a stepped storage box that will mount a cut down pedestal and still allow full rotation of the seat. That idea would have some limited storage under the pedestal seat and higher storage behind the pedestal seat. I want the rotation of the seat retained because more times than not I end up fishin' from the helm seat when the stern fishin' spots are taken up by LOML, Superstars or other VIP's. I am also thinking of just building behind the seat and leaving the pedestal and seat as is. I have a live bait well that is in the middle of the floor to consider also. I have Autocad SW and have some limited design capability with it. The problem with cad sw is that you need to accurately put the boat design into the computer and modify it from there. Not sure what century that will happen!!!

Geek

[phatdaddy]

I currently have a 105 gott cooler behind the helm seat and a deck chair behind the passenger seat.It has been like that for 15 years, so that tells you how high on the list this project is. I like some of the seating on grady whites and makos. but don't know if they will adapt to the V-20. We'll keep thinking.

[LESTERUS]

HEY MACOJOE!!!
I DID THE SAME THING LONG AGO, BEFORE STARBOARD
WAS WELL KNOWN I SAW IT IN A BOAT SHOW AND BOUGTH MATERIAL AND DID ALL MY TEAK EXCEPT THE DOOR (I LOVE THE LOOK OF TEAK) NOW,I'M A HAPPY MAN

LESTERUS