trailers surge brakes

[skpablo]

Just bought a '88 V20 with '89 150 HP yamaha. It's on and EZ Loader Roller Trailer with non working surge brakes system. Anybody have any guess of what it's going to cost me for a complete refurb on the surge brakes? :(

[macojoe]

What are you towing with??

If you have something full size you won't need brakes!

I have a full size chevy pickup and I will tell you there4 is no need for trailer brakes.

I hate brakes and bought a brand new trailer and had them left out.

But if you must, try here for your parts, Labore in another story if your noit going to do it yourself. http://www.championtrailers.com/

Only the front two wheels have brakes.

[brianct12]

I agree with MJ. A good size tow vehicle with excellent braking - will give you adequate braking safety for trailering. My F-150 does a pretty good job with no trailer brakes. Good luck !

[Kajun]

congrats on your new V20! and welcome to the board!

[turbinedoctor]

Diddo. Congrats on the v20 and welcome.

My suggestion would be to purchase a F 350 and scrapping the brakes. My 84 center console is no problem and would do well behind a F 150 also.

If you must repair then I agree with MJ on Champion Trailer. I just bought springs and bolts for mine. Nice selection, prices and quick delivery.

Turbo

[Airslot]

Why am I the only one that likes my brakes? Nah, don't answer that guys, I know the stories well. I service mine once a year and I love em to death. I'm pullin with a 2500HD and still like knowing those brakes are there when needed. Now having said that, I've still got drums and will probably keep it that way.

Airslot

[Skools Out]

best brakes arethe ones on your tow truck. Just take the drums off the trailer take a hammer knock the old brake backs and junk off and then repack and install the rum hubs without any guts. go brakeless.

[skpablo]

Sorry for the lack of information. I am towing with a Pacifica. Sorry about that. I fell inadequate but it's my wife's ride. I have a company car (Chrysler 300) and a Miata that is my fun car. The trailer is a single axle. I don't plan on towing it long distances just locally but Virginia requires surge brakes on a anything over 3000 lbs and if I understand the law correctly it is supposed to be inspected annually and thus wouldn't pass inspection with non working surge brakes. Since I am bring it in brom another state I don't know that I can just avoid the inspection. I be willing to give that a try if I can get plates without the brakes.

Keep the ideas/comments coming. Thanks for the welcome.

[Airslot]

One of the VA residents will confirm, but you can get tags without inspection first. It's odd but thats how they do it. You even get vehicle plates without inspection. We lived in VA for two years before the very kind highway patrol officer stopped me to tell me that I didn't have an ins[ection sticker ;)

Airslot

[pk]

I replaced my surge brakes this spring on my tandem axle ez-loader. Bought a kit from Tie-Down Engineering. About 350 for everything including the actuator. Instalation was straightforward.
Others prefer Kodiak brand brakes over the Tie-down. With one summers use, no issues at all. Smooth operation, no lockups. Tow vehicle is a Toyota Tundra. NY also requires brakes over 3000lbs.

[skpablo]

Thanks all. Airslot, That's what I will try to do if possible. Worst case is I go to champion or Tie Down I guess.

[turbinedoctor]

I bought my boat and trailer in January, tagged and titled it and to this day have not had it inspected. Inspection is not required for tags in VA.

I also own a 26' travel trailer which does not get inspected. Although it does have brakes. A 3000 Lb boat around here on flat land is a whole different story than a 7000 Lb trailer in the mountians.

Pulling with what you listed I would go with the brakes. There is one heck of a feeling that goes through your head when pulling something near your max GVWR at 60 mph, Without brakes, and some one pulls out in front of you. You hit the brakes and it reals like something is pushing you, which there is.

[TheTinMan]

^ I agree with TD totally...

Be legal AND safe, go with the brakes. If you ever need to make an emergency stop you'll be glad you got em, plus it's much less wear and tear on your tow vehicles brakes.

[skpablo]

Turbinedoctor. You live realatively near me. I am in Virginia Beach. Flat. No Hills and really have no plans to take the boat anywhere out of VB except for maybe up to your area or to the outer banks. Again no hills. Agree though that if I do come up your way or OBX I will be doing 60 mph.

TinMan. My owners manual and Uhaul who installed the hitch says 3500 #s. Hope they are right! Again agreed though it's probably better to be safe than sorry.

[turbinedoctor]

I did not see where you stated the weight of you boat and trailer.

My boat is 1920 empty, add 60 gals of gas 392, motor 300 and that puts me at 2612 with out the trailer, rods and coolers. Add about 800 for the trailer and your at 3412.

Being that close, you need to watch closely as you are near max, which is not the ideal place to be.

I'd look into an older beater truck with more towing capicity for two reasons. 1) you dont have to worry about you nice clean car that close to the salt water. 2) What guy pulls a boat with a Pacifica. You might as well drive a mini van back and forth to work. ;D

I hope this helps more than hurts.

[turbinedoctor]

Here you go Skipbo, check out this truck. Great for what you want.

[macojoe]

Get a Chevy hell with ther ford!

and get that ugly pumkin butt out of here :'(

[skpablo]

You guys are a riot.

The brochure on this website says the boat weighs 2300#s. Motor manual says it's 400#s. 60 Gals of gas @ 400#s and I am now at 3100#s before trailer. Don't know about the trailer. 800#s? So I am at 3900#s.

TurbineDoctor, now I feel totally inadequate. I think I'll drop a V8 in the Miata and tow with it ;D

[turbinedoctor]

Dont feel too bad. Not everybody is as well built as us F-350 owners.

Remember no matter what you do to that Miata it is still a Miata. "A rose by any other name is still a rose" Shakespear I think.

On the safety side, make sure you dont put you or your family in danger while towing. I have pulled a travel trailer up and down the whole east coast and even into canada, people think you can stop just as fast as they can. WRONG, even with trailer brakes you have to allow more distance. Not to mention the extra strain on the power train getting it moving.

I started out pulling my camper with a 89 jeep cherokee with the 6 liter, which the owners manual said it was rated for, just 10 miles into the test run at towing it, it started to over heat. Never did make it up to the speed limit.

[Skools Out]

you just needed to build a real Jeep straight 6, I'm building a stroker 4.7 straight 6 Jeep for my wagoneer to pull boats at the coast. the stroker makes 300+ HP and 500+ ft lbs of Tq

[reelapeelin]

Pablo, I just went thru this entire thread and there's a can of worms here that you'll sort thru in time...

Pacifica's a helluva vehicle, but I doubt it'll stand up to more than just short-hauls to a nearby ramp...and if ya ever back it into saltwater, your wife will most likely KILL you over the resulting damage, then ALL your problems will be done ;D ... is there a transmission cooler on the Pacifica...needs to be if ya gonna tow w/ it ;) ...

...and to all the no-brakes-needed believers...ya shoulda been ridin' right-seat w/ me Fri-nite on I-85...I'm doin' 65...MORON in blinged-out old Caddy comes off the ramp, crosses into my lane and SLOWS DOWN ::) ...I've never gotten harder on a brake pedal than tryin' to avoid hittin' this obvious-insuranceless-idiot (O.I.I.)...couldn't swerve w/ trailer on and glad for all FOUR discs on the trailer...still can't believe no contact...SO CLOSE ...

My F-150 has Bemcos on front, discs all around; EXCELLENT braking power, but w/ out trailer brakes, I'd be turnin' in a claim as we speak...I'm SURE of it ;) :P ...

Tie-Down's 6600 actuator is great, but for best braking, put Kodiak's discs w/ it...JMHO... ;) ...

Good luck w/ it...post some pics when ya can and let us know how it goes... 8) ...

[TheTinMan]

TinMan. My owners manual and Uhaul who installed the hitch says 3500 #s. Hope they are right! Again agreed though it's probably better to be safe than sorry.

Sorry bout dat....didn't see the Pacifica part of your post, thought you were towing with Chrsler 300...my bad :-/

[skpablo]

All, thanks for all the information, advice, comments, and humor. This is a great site and I am glad to be aboard. I am sure I will be back to you guys with more questions soon and I prepare to install electronics and make small repairs.

I think I will stay very local until I repair the brakes. There is a boat ramp inmy neighgorhood via which I can be in the chesapeake in about 20 mins so I am sure I won't get bored soon.

As soon as I figure out how to do it. I will post a Pic the boat as she looks presently.

[skpablo]

OK here's a pic of the boat. [imhttp://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/skpablo/IMGP0545.jpgg][/imhttp://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/skpablo/IMGP0545.jpgg]

[turbinedoctor]

Nice boat you got there

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/skpablo/IMGP0545.jpg
*

[skpablo]

Thanks Turbo.

Motor checked out OK according to Marina. Had the carbs done. Been working on it cosmetically. Need bottom paint. Maybe this weekend. Gotta sand prime and paint the lower unit of the O/B. Bimini being repaired. New cushions being made.

Want to get her out on the bay before it gets too cold.

[reelapeelin]

Pablo, that's a great lookin' '88...you gonna enjoy that...keep us posted on what ya do w'/ her...looks like a full-width seat across back...

...and GA numbers...where'd ya find it?
:D ...

[macojoe]

Looks nice!! Welcome to boaters hell!! No better place in th world!.

[TheTinMan]

Nice rig Pablo! ;)

any pics of the interior? We love boat porn!

[skpablo]

TinMan,

Will snap some pics of interior. It's in pretty good shape.


Reelapeelin,

My brother bought and owned the boat 1989-2002. Orginally in CT and then he moved it to Michigan after transferring to Chicago. In 2002 he begged me to buy it but I didn't so a family friend in Atlanta bought it. When I heard the friend now wanted to sell it I decided it needed to be back in the family.

Brother kept in pristine condition in all aspects. Unfortunately family friend did not.

She has never seen salt water. Only Fresh. Which is why I am a little baffled by the degradation of the lower unit of the outboard.

[/imhttp://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/skpablo/IMGP0527.jpgg]

[turbinedoctor]

Pablo , It looks as if it was left in the water with the motor down instead of up. From looking at the photo I did not see any zinc. Check to make sure you have zinc on it. Ihave heard that some motors have the zinc in the little tab that sticks down behind the prop. What do you call that thing (trim tab, steering stabilizer, anti torque) I know what it is for but cant think of what its called.

[skpablo]

Turbo,

I believe it is called an anode. It is in the picture just above the prop. I was told and show by the marina that there is also a "U" shaped one at the very bottom of the engine mount.

[macojoe]

Yamaha has the U shaped one under the mounting bracket.

There is a stainless grouind wire that connects to the lower part of the motor, you have to make sure that it is clean and mounted tight, so it makes a good connetion. This is what stops the corrision!

But leaving it all the way down in the water is not a good Idea!!!

[skpablo]

MacoJoe,

Thanks I will check it out this weekend. Hoping to bottom paint as well

[macojoe]

There have been people that clean and sand lower unit then use marin tex or formula 27 to fill all the holes, sand nice then paint, Lower unit will look brand new!!

If you want to go to that much work??

[skpablo]

MacoJoe,

So I have 2? One under the cav plate and the other under the mounting bracket? Looking out there on the Web there seems to be a big difference in what I have to pay for them. one sight is 12.00 and another is $25.

[macojoe]

Are they all shot?? They rot away, if they are not rotted they are fine.

The U shaped one was broke in half before I replaced!

[skpablo]

No they don't look that bad. Don't really know if they need replacing but if they are only 12$ each then what the heck. plus the comment was made that maybe my lower unit looked a little rough due to zincs (bad)?

[macojoe]

they not bad if not rotted!!

If anything the wire to the lower unit might not be working??

It need to connect to make the zinc work!

[reelapeelin]

No they don't look that bad. Don't really know if they need replacing but if they are only 12$ each then what the heck. plus the comment was made that maybe my lower unit looked a little rough due to zincs (bad)?


I think, while zincs HELP, they do not STOP corrosion....previous owner musta just left motor down all the time while in the salt...

[macojoe]

I agree!! Cause you would need a ton of zinc to stop a motor from rotting in the water all the time!!

The funny thing is his seems not to be rotted at all (zinc) and they should be even if they didn't save the motor they shoud have rotted.

[reelapeelin]

I agree!! Cause you would need a ton of zinc to stop a motor from rotting in the water all the time!!

The funny thing is his seems not to be rotted at all (zinc) and they should be even if they didn't save the motor they shoud have rotted.


Wonder if previous owner changed 'em recently??...


WAIT A MINUTE!!...Pablo said never been in saltwater...was that boat kept in a slip at a marina, say at Lake Lanier outside Atlanta?...

[macojoe]

Hmm....do zinc work in freash water?? do you even need them in freash water??

[Skools Out]

no in fresh water you use magnisum or aluminum

[skpablo]

It's amazing what great minds can accomplish when they work together.

Reelapeelin,
You are right. This boat has never seen salt. 1st 9 years of it's life it was trailered. Next 7 it ws kept in a slip. 3 of that probably with the motor down when not pulled for winter.

Skools Out,
You are right as well. According to my Boater;s World big book....if it's a fresh water boat only then you should be using magnesium. Thus I think it had the wrong anodes.

I will replace anyway now with zinc since I will be in saltwater.

MacoJoe,
I think I have confirmed that I have 2 anodes. 1 below the motor mount and a skeg type just above the prop.

Man you guys are good. Maybe we should all run for congress and get this country's politicians back on track. Sorry for the commentary. Election time gets me fired up and sick.

Saturday I am going to do a sea trial and Sunday I hope to bottom paint.

[reelapeelin]

Pablo...no apologies...politician (spit! spit!) has become one of the dirtiest words I know...there's nothing that resembles a Democrat more than a Republican...they ALL stink :P ...


Anyway...glad if we helped get to bottom of your problem...wrong annode in freshwater ::) ...who'd a thunk it ??? ...

[garycorbett]

I just redid mine - I got replacement kits for $89 each - you can check treiler parts superstore on internet. I am trailering mine to Florida in January - 2000 miles - need brakes for that.

[deshet]

VA residence,

I currently have 6 different trailers. I live Chesapeake and have a house in Virginia Beach. VA really does not enforce trailer inspections. None of my trailers have inspections sticker 2 don't even have plates and I drive them down the road past state troopers and localy cops and have never been stopped.

When buying a boat from out of state you register the trailer with the DMV. The DMV form allows you to fillin GROSS weight. Just put 1500 GVWR and 400 for empty weight and you will not have to get your trailer inspected. My 2 axle trailer on my 23' CC says 1500lbs and I don't have to get it inspected. That trailer;s true GVWR is over 4000lbs. Once the GVWR reaches 2000 or 2500 lbs is when inspections are required. A lot of people do this and it is a loop hole in the system.

I would however get the brakes fixed on your trailer. Emergencies happen while driving and your tow vechile will not provide enough stopping power.

I tow with an excursion diesel and I have experienced times where I have needed more braking power with my breakless trailers. There will be times when a honda civic decides to just cut and you will need the stopping power. Remeber people are sue crazy. Also running without trailer brakes causes more wear and tear on your vechiles brakeing system. Parts on my trucks braking system are a lot more expensive then trailer brakes would be.