The Motor won't start??

[macojoe]

Ok I have everything hooked up and all is working, lights tilt & Trim, But the motor doesn't go??

I have fresh gas, I have ck'ed all plugs for spark and they all have it. Compression is 97 to 100 in all.

I pump the ball and ai have gas leaking from cause I pumped to much.

I have manualy gave it gas and watched the choke, but I think the auto choke at key is not working.

Now when I first started to run it I saw fo milky stuff coming from ther carbs?
I drained all the carb bowls, and changed out the filter (water seprator} and tryed again, tghe milky went away buity still no start?

So I have fresh gas,
I have spark,
I have good compression
I have gas in the carbs
motor turns over, but not as fast as th 175?

Now what?? :-/

[Stillrunning]

Have you tried any of that starter spray? It sounds as you may have had some water mixed in the gas and that spray may be enough to get it to fire and burn off the water. If the choke is not working that would also keep it from starting.

[Sean]

Is there a safty kill switch on the engine?
Sorry, thats just something that would happen to me

[kamikaze]

Sean:

If Kill switch is not installed he won't have spark.


Isn't their a manul primer setting (red value) that would help prime it and get some good gas into the clyinders?

Kamiakze

[Bygracealone]

Kamikaze is correct. There should be a small red valve just below the VRO and fuel pump. Turn that baby in the up position and it will serve as your choke. However, remember to turn it back once it starts...

[chumbucket]

I think MJ is home in his basement sulking. I've been trying to call and he won't answer the phone.
He's mad at me because I couldn't come help him today. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/bospa/girlfight.gif
I mean, it's only my grandson's birthday so there shouldn't be any problem spending the whole day working on MJ's problems and blowing off the little guys B'day. Right MJ? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v129/bospa/girlfight.gif

[macojoe]

Ok tere are two winners here!! Well your all winners ;)

Stillrunning and Kamikaze!!

I moved the red thing amajig up and sprayed with starter spray, and BOOM!! she started right up and stayed running started right up everytime after that!

The Tac went to 2200 rpm's and stuck there? I guess I should have bought the gauges from the guy when he offered?

Well it idles pretty high, but I have the book here so I will look up how to adjust.

Thanks all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

As for CB, whats the matter don't you like fat guys with no money?? :-[

[Bygracealone]

MJ, did you remember to turn the red valve back to the down position? That will keep it at a high idle if left in the up position...

[macojoe]

Yes I turned it back down, I thought of that first thing ;) Thanks buddy

[THEFERMANATOR]

DON'T MAKE ANY ADJUSTMENTS WITH IT OUT OF THE WATER!!!!!

I CANNOT stress this enough! You can set your link and sync on it, but don't change the idle speed. Your used to your old cross-flow engine, that early looper will change drastically when it is put in the water. Timing needs to be set to 18 BTDC @ 5000RPM's, and your in gear idle should be around 650-750. If you don't believe me about the engine changing when you put it in the water, put a block of wood over prop and block it off while it is running.

[Bygracealone]

Ferm is right. For this reason, I'm having my local neighborhood outboard mechanic meet me at the water this evening to adjust my idle...

[macojoe]

wow I am glad you came on!!!!!!m mI was just going out the door!! :o

Also the guy said that he put a new water every January including this past one, but water comes out the tell tail slow, will that get better in the water also??

Thanks

[macojoe]

I don't have a local guy that will meet me? I would have to pay thur the nose or do it myself. :-/

And CB is no help :'(

[Bygracealone]

Perhaps you could get 'r' done by using some makeshift barrel/bucket or something to fill with water and lower the foot into so as to create some backpressure? You'd just have to be careful to give the prop clearance and keep the water coming into the barrel/bucket or whatever... It would have to be fairly large though...

I don't know; just a thought.

[tsubaki]

Have you removed the carb plugs and sprayed cleaner thru the holes?
Not running, high idle and shutting off could be slightly clogged jets

[THEFERMANATOR]

The loopers seem to flow alot of water through them, many times a hose won't supply enough enough volume. You may also have some debris in the tell tale spout. Another thing to consider is that alot of guys down here yank the T-stats out due to the high water temps. These engines are actually pretty easy to work on once you get aquainted with them.

[macojoe]

Bygracealone Posted on: Today at 3:49pm
Perhaps you could get 'r' done by using some makeshift barrel/bucket or something to fill with water and lower the foot into so as to create some backpressure? You'd just have to be careful to give the prop clearance and keep the water coming into the barrel/bucket or whatever... It would have to be fairly large though...

I don't know; just a thought.


This time of year I have a bunch of ramps not in heavy use on the week days, so I can just dip it in the water on the traikler for that matter and do it.

tsubaki Posted on: Today at 3:50pm
Have you removed the carb plugs and sprayed cleaner thru the holes?
Not running, high idle and shutting off could be slightly clogged jets


The guy had the motor on the boat till the day it was shipped, so its been down for 2 weeks.
Will havingn it lay on its side for that long cause anything?

[THEFERMANATOR]

Have you removed the carb plugs and sprayed cleaner thru the holes?
Not running, high idle and shutting off could be slightly clogged jets
Be careful what you spray on those plastic carb bodies, carb cleaner WILL!!!! melt them(don't ask). You have to use very mild cleaners to clean them out. I like to use WD-40 and compressed air for just spraying them off(gas would work as well). OMC ENGINE TUNER is the only thing that I know of you can dip the carbs in to clean them.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I've seen these V-6 loopers idle at 2000, and then drop down to a 600 idle in the water. Back pressure is VERY crucial on a looper. Loopers flow more efficiently up high, and tend to produce more high rpm HP, whereas cross-flows pull extremely good down low. This is why many people were dissapointed with loopers when they first came out. There boats would rocket on plane with the C.F. engine but fall off up high, the loopers would struggle to get on plane but once they got on top would fly up high. This is why most small HP engines are C.F.'s. Don't pass judgement on the engine until you get it in the water.

[macojoe]

Well removing carbs is not on the list of things to do! :o

I am sure if I take to the water like you say and add some new plugs and see what happens.

Do you use a old pulse car timer to time the outboard??

[tsubaki]

THEFERM's hitting everything right.
Did the guy say when the motor last ran?
9 months will start varnishing of gas. Ethanol, I don't know.

[tsubaki]

I would not play with the timing till the last resort.

[macojoe]

I've seen these V-6 loopers idle at 2000, and then drop down to a 600 idle in the water. Back pressure is VERY crucial on a looper. Loopers flow more efficiently up high, and tend to produce more high rpm HP, whereas cross-flows pull extremely good down low. This is why many people were dissapointed with loopers when they first came out. There boats would rocket on plane with the C.F. engine but fall off up high, the loopers would struggle to get on plane but once they got on top would fly up high. This is why most small HP engines are C.F.'s. Don't pass judgement on the engine until you get it in the water.

So far the guy I got the motor from has been honset all the way!

He said he had it tuned in the begin of the summer, and all eletric, staor, starter, coils, cdi's were change in the last year!

the only thing is he said that all compression was 112 to 115, and I got 97 to 100 but that just might mean the gauges read different?? But they are all good numbers.

I will do nothing till I get it in the water and see what happens!!

[macojoe]

It will be 3 weeks, since the motor ran. It ran a week before shipping day and it has been almost 2 weeks since I got it.

[tsubaki]

Have the gas hooked up to the motor and remove the carb plugs, spray brake cleaner or carb cleaner thru the jets, then pump the bubble to clear the other crap out.
If the carbs sprayed the same, reinstall the plugs and see if the motor acts right.

[macojoe]

Thanks, But as therm said that might be to harsh on the plastic??

I am going to get it to the boat ramp soon and try it, before I do anything.

[tsubaki]

If it ran a few weeks ago, dismiss what I said .
Or just do it for the meanness of it. ;D ;D

[macojoe]

LOL

[THEFERMANATOR]

Here is a basic rundown of the adjustments on an early JOHNNY-RUDE looer(85-87, 88 changed styles). You firts start by loosening the 2 screws on the carbs(carb ramp and sync). Then you adjust the idle stop screw on the main linkage so that the line on the ramp points at the middle of the roller on the carb arm(see pics for red arrows). Tighten the lock-nut on the idle stop screw. Then push the carb arm lightly against the carb pick-up ramp and tighten the screw on the carb arm. The roller should be snug against the ramp, but not opening the butterfly's at all on the carbs( the roller should be able to turn still without much resistence) If there are any flat spots on the roller, replace it. Then you put slight tension on the carb sync arm and tighten the screw on it. You want it so that when the carbs open, the 2 shafts move at the same time(it can take a little practice to get this adjustment down). Then you want to open the throttle to WOT. Set the WOT stop screw so that the WOT reference marks on the carb pickup arm point's staright forward. Lock the screw down on the linkage arm. Link and sync is done now.

Now you need it in the water to do the rest, a helper is strongly advised(actaully just about required). And a timing light is required at this point. Put it in the water and bring it up to temp(small-bore loopers react to engine temp fairly drastically). Connect your timing light, and put it in gear(you can try this adjustment with it on the trailer still, to hold it still. But your not guaranteed to get the RPM's up enough. You need to set your total timing to 18 degrees BTDC @ 5000 RPM's, the CDI box will advance the timing with RPM's and total timing specs are for 5000 RPM's. One turn out on the screw will advance the timing 1 degree, and one turn in retards 1 degree. Lock the jamb-nut down tightly once you have 18, verify adjustment with lock-nut tightened. Now bring it back to idle and set your idle speed to around 650 in gear. you turn the idle screw in to lower it, and out to raise it. the lock-nut on the idle speed set screw likes to come loose easily.

Now your done, engine set. the basic tools you will need for this job are a 1/4" blade flat head screw-driver, timing light, 7/16" wrench and a 7/16" deep well socket with a 6" extension.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/THEFERMANATOR/WELLCRAFT/140-4.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/THEFERMANATOR/WELLCRAFT/140-5.jpg

[THEFERMANATOR]

A few more pics for ya MJ, these show the T-stats and the coolant lines. You can take the 2 lines off from the block and make sure they are not plugged.The tee is known to get plugged up on these and cause no tell-tale or weak stream. The T-stat control valve directs water to the front side of the T-stats and hold them into the block. These engines are designed to bypass the T-stats from about 25% throttle on by stopping the water flow the front of the T-stats and allowing the water pressure to push the T-stats off there seat and move the diaphrams out.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/THEFERMANATOR/WELLCRAFT/140-1.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t271/THEFERMANATOR/WELLCRAFT/140-2.jpg

[macojoe]

Wow thats all great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am printing it all out as we speak ;)

I will be putting boat in the water sometime after the weekend and see what happens!

Just talked to CB Now he weants toi come up, I said yea now that tyhe work is done!!
He just laughed! >:(


Thanks everyone!!!!!!!!!! I still be straching my head with out you's!!

[msbhammer]

Damm Therm. You done your homework. Great Pics. That should get MJ up and running. ;)

[THEFERMANATOR]

Damm Therm. You done your homework. Great Pics. That should get MJ up and running. *;)
The 140 I got was a complete basket case when i got it, that's how I got it. The previous owner couldn't find anybody to ever get it to run right, and he only had it for 2 months. The guy he bought it from unloaded his problem child onto him. The guy I got it from spent too much money on it with another mechanic that couldn't get it to run on all 4. He brought it to me, and I got it to run but it still wouldn't wind up smoothly. Then it overheated and burned up #2 cylinder, so he told me to keep it.

At this point I took it on as a challenge to get this thing running right again(I'm EXTREMELY STUBBORN!!!, and PERSISTENT). So I rebuilt it, and then started sorting it all out. Thus how I learned about JOHNNY-RUDE loopers. Now I can set em up almost blindfolded.

[macojoe]

Well it looks like a choke problem??

After letting it sit all night there is no start?

But after I sprayed with starter fluid it fired right up and will evertime after that!

I here nothing at the motor when we push the key in??

Can you FL guys start with no choke cause it is warm there?

[tsubaki]

MJ if I'm not mistaken, the choke dosen't close the butterflys (on that model) but just scoots (or makes it able to) gas directly into the throat of the carbs.
I do have a 30 like that and I think my 150 does that.
When I choke mine, I don't hear anything but it does choke it.
Yours does have a small flag type lever to manually choke it? If so try that.
For those of you that have forgotten (I did) this is an "86 225hp.

[macojoe]

Yes I have the red flag, I turned it up and throtteled up and she started like a charm!! But I had to run back there before it stalled and turn it down to stay running. Here she is running

http://syncboard.com/albums/album05/Picture_040_Medium.jpg

Next problem I think I know were all the water is going!!

Whats going on here??

http://syncboard.com/albums/album05/Picture_041_Medium.sized.jpg

It even comes out were the missing Zinc screw is??

http://syncboard.com/albums/album05/Picture_042_Medium.sized.jpg

[tsubaki]

They all will do that but that does look excessive.

[tsubaki]

And that piss tube ain't very strong.

[macojoe]

well the real thing first is the choke, I can't be having to remove the cover and turning that flag all the time??

My key switch seems funky and wonder if it doesn't work right, or if there is a problem with the selnoid for the choke??

I will swap out the key switch tomorow?

[tsubaki]

Solenoid or key switch will do that to the choke.
What kind of maintance has been done? Is it possible they misaligned the tube from the water pump or an o-ring or seal is split?

[tsubaki]

Tell ya what, stick a barrel under it filled up with water and see if that improves the water circulation.

[macojoe]

All I can say is the guy said they have changed the water pump evey January since he bought ther boat 10 years ago?

[macojoe]

I am not to worryed about water at this point, I will see what happens when I get it in the water.

I have to get this choke thing fixed, I have another switch here and will replace tomorrow.

The one in there now the spring is messed up and it does not go back to run after she starts, I have to turn it myself.
But I have a good one here so will try that.

[tsubaki]

Try the barrel, if that don't give better pressure, snatch the foot off and look at the water delivery system.

[tsubaki]

Oh and the switch, put silicone on the threads and hand tighten with a socket and no rachet.
The silicone will keep the nut from backing off, most people damage the switch from tightening it.
The things made of plastic!!!

[THEFERMANATOR]

Check for power at the purple wire that hooks to the fule primer solonoid. It is on the lower port side of the airbox. It should have 3 hoses hooked to it, one big one and 2 little ones.

[Skools Out]

that screw in the back of your throttle linkage is not the idle speed that is you idle spark dwell. that is also how you adjust your idle timing it should be set at 6*ATDC at idle. use that to set the idle timing.

[macojoe]

thanks guys!!

Skools do you know were that wire diagram is you posted a while back??
Ck the thread I started "so I screwed up the wires" Thanks

And the purple wire is a problem up front if you look at that same thread you will see what I am talking about


and both you guys if you go back a page in this thread, whats going on with the water? Is this ok or should I drop the lower unit?

[msbhammer]

Hey !!, you keeping knocking my post off the top. I need help first here. Get in line >:(

:P 8) ;D

[THEFERMANATOR]

I hope the water coming out from in between the lower and mid is normal, mine does it just as bad. I pulled mine off awhile back and cleaned and painted it. It slowed the water down for awhile. If you pull the lower off you'll understand why it blows water out there. The way the exhaust lower housing drops in doesn't seal well and lets the water hold up there.

[Skools Out]

mind did it till i replaced the seal from the exhaust tube to lower unit.

[macojoe]

Hey !!, you keeping knocking my post off the top. I need help first here. Get in line

Be quite over there shorty!! ;)

So I guess it won't hurt anything ofr now thats good.

Now about the wireing??

http://www.wellcraftv20.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Repairs;action=display;num=11905559 97

[THEFERMANATOR]

mind did it till i replaced the seal from the exhaust tube to lower unit. *
I tried that as well, even put sealer on the seals. Still leaks out there like his picture.

[Skools Out]

it may have leaked so long that it has run a groove in the lower unit or the midsection to where it will always leak now. but if you seal it on with 1211 Bond it will stop your leak. but that stuff is hard to find. i use it alot, it's for Jet Ski race motor crank cases, good to 600 psi and up to 1500*. tough stuff

[macojoe]

But it will not hurt anything while leaking right??

Just to make sure!

[Skools Out]

just let it leak as long as it is pumping water to the power head.